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looking for a little advice from the eperienced DE players out there please, i just got a DE battle force and im thinking for my first 1k of DElf i want to run a pretty strong kabalite/truborn mounted force. i was wondering if you guys preffer to run 5 man squads with a blaster each or 10 man squads, and if 10 man, do you preffer the splinter cannon or dark lance? obviosly they are all gonna be in raiders or venoms, am leaning towards ten in a raider with splinter cannon atm for the splinter racks as thats a LOT of fire, but is the standard dark lance on the raider enough or do rou find you prffer to back it up with a second lance from the squad?


thanks

People tend to run:

5 kabalite warriors with a blaster
Venom with extra splinter cannon
125 points

4 kabalite trueborn with 4 blasters (optionally 3 trueborn)
Venom with extra splinter cannon
173 points

On kabalite warriors don't mix darklight weaponry with splinter weaponry upgrades. Your troops are either killing tanks or they're killing troops. They're not being kitted for both. Generally speaking the 12-splinter-shots-per-venom is enough anti-infantry fire. Your weaponry upgrades are nearly always darklight when they're on kabalites. I could be wrong, but I believe that if the transport moves then your infantry's heavy weapons can't shoot. So buy blasters. Not dark lances.

So buy blasters. Not dark lances.

I'd agree. But bear in mind you only get a 6" move if you want troops to fire from a transport otherwise they have to disembark.

My experience so far has been that dual splinter cannon venom provide all the anti-infantry fire one would ever really need but that lance fire is a lot less good than you'd think at first (lack of twin-linking partly but also universal S8 AP2, while good, isn't true top-drawer AT shooting so you need as many shots as possible). So you need to maximise Venoms as being the best anti-infantry platform (and best anti-monstrous creature too, actually) and then concentrate on getting as much lance weaponry into your infantry as possible. That means blasters, which means as many 3 or 4 man Trueborn units as you can squeeze into the points available and 5 man Warriors with a blaster for your troops. Backed by 3 ravagers, It gives an army that has remarkably few different units and basically two different sorts of weapons (poisoned 4+ and S8 AP2). People say DE have a 'steep learning curve', which is utterly contrary to my experience. My own theory is that the fewer different sorts of units you take, the easier the army will be to play effectively - that's exacerbated by having specialist units (Venoms shoot non-vehicles, blasters and lances shoot vehicles and SV2+ infantry) that make fire priority decisions for you. Really the only thinking to be done with this army is during the movement phase.

Adding in wyches in raiders gives a rather different style of play.

But 8-10 Warriors in a raider with splinter racks aren't going to be as effective for their points (sadly) as 5 man warriors with a blaster. When the raider is lost you lose the wracks and the extra lance and raiders are very weak. Also to get the splinter rifle fire you have to move 6" and end within 12" of the enemy, which isn't a recipe for survival (neither is moving >6" and unloading....

Cursed BF raider thanks for the advice guys, looking at what i have from the BF and trying to make a good starting 1k
for now, im thinking use the radier early till i build up the force pool, that means 2 boxes of kabalites 3 venoms and another 3 reavers, and i can run with
10 warriors in raider (blaster/cannon)
5 in venom (blaster)
4 trueborn in venom x2 (4 blasters each and x2 cannons on the ven)
and 6 reavers to bulk out the points
would cost less than my original idea for a first 1k

The raider's okay, I just think it's not ideal for warriors because they're not very good too close to the enemy. Wyches on the other hand like the raider and it's a better vehicle for them than a venom by a long yard.

People don't seem to like reavers much but having played against DE forces with 6 man reaver units, I think they're quite useful if used with care and I'm definitely going to have them in my alterative list.

Do 5 true born with double dark lances in raider, they are more then ravagers but then you can in essence field 6 of em (ravagers) all with NS ..... Oh and they can hit two targets each

Hmm... 180 points for two lances, 5 trueborn and the raider isn't too bad except you can't move and shoot all the lance weapons -- only the raiders' own lance. Remaining static isn't generally wise for DE vehicles, I find.

146 for 3 true-born with 2 lances in a raider. Add vehicle upgrades as desirable. Or leave stock. Left stock that 438 plus 315 for 3 stock ravagers. You now have 6 boats and 18 lances with 36" range and you have only spent 753. In 1k I would drop one of thje TB squads and add the third to jump to 1500.

So again, 607pts for 5 boats in this case and 15 lances with 36" range able to engage 7 targets. Thats fething brutal at 1K and he can still add blaster warriors in venoms and maybe a 3 man wrack (grot-squad) unit to reserve and objective grab.

This is just a theory list I have had keep in mind.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Blood and Slaughter wrote: only the raiders' own lance. Remaining static isn't generally wise for DE vehicles, I find.

Honestly in my experience my ravagers are fairly static, they shuffle initially to make room for the others advance but in 1k he only has to worry about static deploying 2 models. That really isn't an issue. My wolf lists18 long fangs almost never move, why? I deploy smart and leave the moving to my speeders and razorbacks. Same theory applies here only the whole army is much more mobile.

I'm going to add that warriors in Raiders aren't bad. You don't want to spam warrior raiders, because then you can find yourself short of anti-infantry firepower (which is hilarious in a DE army) but you can throw a couple of 5x warriors with a blaster in a raider for some additional anti-tank firepower if you find you are missing out on some.

I've found this effective in lists using razorwing jetfighters, since the loss of lances (compared to the classic ravager) can be detrimental and the monoscythe missiles make up for the missing anti-infantry firepower.

So if you find yourself in need of more dark lances after all your trueborn and ravagers and what-have-you, it's only a 5 point cost spike to change out a 2x cannon venom for a raider with a flickerfield.

Yea, you have to be careful as a collector though, DE have so many subtle but viable tweaks that it is easy to break the bank on a fleet lol.

Hehehe im finding that corsair, just payed a visit to ebay earlier, inc p&p, 4 blasters cost me £17:50 pretty much $30 just for 4 weapon arms, i think some shredders will be getting converted to make up the numbers.
all in all, thank you greatly guys, there is so much food for thought in this topic for a newb DE player, i have never even played against them as i play in a small group of friends (only 3 of us) took me ages to decide to roll with them as it felt like a nice change from my other forces (BA & IG) and a very different skill set to use and learn from.
on another note, man are these nice to paint especially the reavers, almost finished my first squad of 5 warriors. Hopefully will get them finished tommorow and get some pics up but stupidly i only built 3 then 2, while waiting for the undercoat drying on the 2, the reaver was calling and now im cant put the blighter down

thanks again guys
helped me alot so far

Whats the general opinion on wyches? i am thinking to initially keep the $$$££££ cost down a little that i should perhaps run a heam HQ with some wyches in the raider as my hq and one of my troops, and the other troops 5 kabs in a venom

My fav units are:

- 3x trueborn in venoms w/ blasters
- 7x wyches with agonizer and haywires in raider w/ ff/ns
- ravagers

Try em out! Also depends if you want a wych cult or what

Venom being all the anti infantry you'll need is true... To an extent. Great against guardsmen, not so much against marines.

12 shots, BS 4 -> 8 hit -> 4 wound -> roughly 1 dead space marine.

Keep that in mind when you move your vehicles. You ain't gonna crack a tank and then blow away the marines inside with 1 venom.

Vetril wrote:Venom being all the anti infantry you'll need is true... To an extent. Great against guardsmen, not so much against marines.

12 shots, BS 4 -> 8 hit -> 4 wound -> roughly 1 dead space marine.

Keep that in mind when you move your vehicles. You ain't gonna crack a tank and then blow away the marines inside with 1 venom.

1.33 marines > than one marine and cover does not matter.

So your 4 venoms can blast those long fangs in the ruins to hell in one turn.

I - after giveing up my DS overkillshooty DE - have come to realise that voidravens with implosion missiles and razorwings with shatterfield and disintegrator are very viable. Most lists i see nowdays build on "ow we need lance weapons". To hell with that. Voidravens are more versatile, areA V11 and arent OT. Most times i used to field ravagers myself, put they arent worth it, unlessyouw ant something with lances for low points. I have played my last few games with lances only on the voidravens and i didnt regret it. The elite slot and points are needed for incubi, the heavy is better fited out with ravens with implosion missiles - decimates a harder nondeathstar unite smolthering pulp - the razorwing with shatterfields takes care of the big horde intendedtosoalk up fire for the other unites to get close, the voidlances pop a vehicle faster, multiple disintegrator shots take care of termies,broadsides...the nasty things.

WE_DONT_NEED_SO_MENY_BLASTERS!

Now i'll get the usual trollin of transport spam. Ok...
1 DL to the side of a trasport - bs4s8 av10, we want at least an immo.
0,22 - no smoke screen.
1 Disint to the same - bs4s5 av10 3 shots. The target is at least immo again.
0.16 - no smoke screen.
The difference is so little, and if i can chose to shoot off a nasty 3+ or 2+ unite - ex Broadsides - i WILL fire the latter than a vehicle. If i have to fire at a vehicle, it isnt as much of a difference, and if i'm doing that, that means there are no other enemies to threaten me in 24" Of corse this is an option you may or may not take Disints on raiders and razorwings, leaving the raven to pop the nasties - 4 s9lance shots are a mean bite to a landraiders machine spirit.

I've tried this blasterborn trend, and i have to say, converting points in to a basically AV unite, not haveing it to massacre the munchies...Games can be won with butchering, what Dark Eldar are masters at. Use incubi instead of blasterborn, use ravens and razors instead of ravagers - even for the super sonic and the greater survivability with LOADS of fun rockets...ow, and a void mine/raven.
Keep away from those meltas, hack the infantry with rockets, tarpit with wytches to make way for your archon and incubi to mop op the oposition, run circles around your foe, and laugh mockingly at your foe, whom cant keep track of your rapid changing of fronts.

A nother thing: come in from reserves, and prefer to go second. Most players dont keep meny things in theirs, so they will bring them up as soon as possible, so you can choose what side of the field is less a killzone to walk in to. A voidraven or razorwing miraculously lost its weapons and didnt explode/wreck/immo? 36"-ES OF PURE RAM!!! You will get destroyed, but the face on the enemy, when they hear, you are going to ram flat out 36"-es?! Pure joy!

Dont forget. Playing a Dark Eldar army isnt only about winning. It is also about having a massacre, enjoying the bloodshed and laughing so sinister your own soul will tremble at your feet! Ow and winning and the such. And haveing a good time...blablabla...

forgot: synergy! Your qsuads should complement each other!. Already have writen about the wytch incu+archon part. Try not to bring all your unites to the field. Esp not the troops. If an incu comes up, sure, pray that one of the wytches does to, for those ladies will take up the bait role and soalk up a massive amount of attacks, before the incubi do their job. 10 wytches w shardnet and hydra vs 10 tac marines, incu were late - rolled 1 on fleet, Lady Average gave them a little rest - then the wytches got charged by a nother tac squad, 16 vs 6-8...i think it was 8 wytches. They held the line, 2-2 deaths on each side, then the incu came in and BOY OW BOY what a slaughter was that!
If you are looking for a suicide surprise squad, try useing scourges with heatlances. It IS an assault weapon, so they can fire them after they DS next to a LR or some such. Melta, lance, 2d6+6 arp, ap1. Average roll 3+4+6=13, lance av 12, rolladice and add 1. That'll getthe opponent raging like a spacewolf. Hmm...im actualy quite enjoying this writing...

I'm not saying that Blasterborn is a bad tactic, im just saying it didnt work for me. And wheres the fun in shooting down your foe? Thats not even a massacre, thats just plain hold the line type...although, as you are dark eldar, you shift your lines the way you want - MOVENET IS AWSOME!