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so im bored and wanted to get a discussion going on what dakka thought was the best infantry unit that cant shoot in the game?i tried to keep it to two options per army and at least one core and one special choice. i also tried to pick the more popular options that i have seen on tabletops.two choices have the option to shoot in the sea guard and infernal guard and thats fine, i just didnt want to pick dedicated shooters( thats another poll for later). so tell me what you think dakka. throw in variables such as lord and hero that buff units or lores of magic that can buff units to make them extra killy or tough. same thing with banners and eqiupment wise. i know its alot of varibles but pick based on what you play and what you have played against that has just kicked your butt or helped you to table someone turn 3. let the discussion begin!

(i threw in the bretonian knights cause there infantry just plan not very good and well there whole army is knights lol.so yea.)

Slaves won't table anyone but I think point for point, strength in numbers, steadfast and only 2pts each make them I think the best infantry in the game so far point for point its hard to get better then a unit that wont cause panic when they do eventually die and due to obscene numbers will rarely run away.

I think specials is too hard. I didn't think long on this but:

-DoC Bloodletters
-Any core knights

-WoC Marauders
-WoC Warriors
-Saurus Warriors
-Savage Orcs

-Ogre Bulls
-Ogre Ironguts

Kind of made 3ish groups. The first are good almost always in nearly every situation. The next group are really good IF you buy other stuff and/or buff them. The Ogres are good because they tend to mess up other people's plans by being MI and all that goes with it (able to block cannons/bolts, stomp, immune to KB, huge charge).

Yeah..

WoC Chosen kitted out correctly put out the pain, point for point. Hard to kill AND stupidly hitty.

Why is Cavalry included in a poll for best Infantry?

Because I chose to. Which is why MI is there too.

But because I also made it best Core, as best infantry from Core + Special I think is too big a list and too hard to choose.

Also no love for white lions or PG or Black Guard or Minotaurs?

Chaos Chosen, from the list.

Johnny-Crass wrote:Also no love for white lions or PG or Black Guard or Minotaurs?

Specials. As are Chosen. If you extend it to Specials the list becomes huge and the variances are huge and awful hard to guestimate. Esp because they have lots of requirements and you have to start looking at things like unit size. And there's no reason it would have to be just infantry then you go back to building a thread about Mournfangs.

But there is already specials in this thread and one of the best specials at that. If it was just core Savage Big Uns or Gor would get my vote

Chaos Dwarf Infernal Guards gets my voice

Bloodletters and Swordmasters are the bestest.

DOESNT ANYONE READ THE FIRST POST?

i said why i included the bret knights.(never seen anyone who played brets use men at arms or more then two small units of bowman) sorry mr crass about the white lions n such but that was alot to type out and i just wanted to put 2 per army. also i was putting out what is more popular of what i seen on the table top since 8th started. i was at a crossroads with either swordmasters, white lions and phonex guard, moreso whit lions and swordmasters were closer to the same level with pho guard in third. i had some other hard choices like this in some other armies but you probably guessed why i left some out or in.

i included the specials because they are infantry too. i didnt just want to leave it to just core troops.

i wanted all the variables to be counted on when you made your decision. so like a group of chaos chosen with two warshine buffs would be an idea situation. or a unit of temple guard with everything from the lore of life on it. dark elf warriors 6 wide 10 deep with a supreme sorceress with the sac dagger.

my question was what is the best infantry( non shooting)? as i didnt state " in a vacuum" as i did in the heavy cav poll i wanted people to think of all the variables associated with that unit.

Not in a vacum point for point with the desired upgrades? Gor hands down

Gor:
-Good statline for the points WS4 T4
-Primal Fury (good chance of it especially when general and bsb are nearby), you can hex initative to lose rerolls from ASF and basic hatred is useless after the first round, PF keeps the hate a flowing.
-No armor, with S4+ it's loses it's luster (My S6 bestigor attacks laugh at chaos warriors and gromil armor), lore of metal can kiss my butt and the models are cheaper due to lack of armor
-Easier to get of lore of beasts on
-Option for beast banner wargor to make them S4
-1pt upgrade to AHW is a must have
-And they look awesome.

Dont forget Primal Fury can give frenzy....

I like Night Goblins for similar reasons as skaven slaves but you get nets, fanatics, and slightly better stats and hate dwarves to boot. Too bad they fear elves now.

Gnoblars with trappers. Fun unit

Overall, barring animosity, I'd wager Orcs & Goblins have some of the best Core infantry units in the game (especially when talking pre-Magic). Boyz of all varieties, Night Goblins, and arguably Common Goblins (if lucky with Stabbaz) are all rather solid units.

6-10pts a model for Boyz, but on the low end you're looking at S3(4) T4, high end WS4 S4(5) T4 with either three ranks totting 5+ saves (and three ranks of S5 WS4 attacks at that point price isn't shabby), two ranks totting 5+ / 6++ saves and basically one less rank worth of attacks, or two ranks with an extra attack per frontage at the price of some durability. Less than 300pts for 30 of them with Standard, Musician, and two of the three "high end" combinations.

The issue being that OnG core have to struggle against Animosity, and - while having good spells - the OnG buffs don't compare to the BRB / Army Book ones that other armies can reliably get. Furthermore, if there's one failing of OnG's, it's Leadership: Those Big 'Uns are only Leadership 7 (meaning they're literally 50% likely to fail any check before talking about negative modifiers), and it only goes downhill from there.

If in a pure vacuum while looking at Core selections v Core selections, I'd lean heavily toward Orcs & Goblins. However, such is not the case. You're almost never going to see a WHFB game wherein two core units of the same points amount repeatedly smash into each other on neutral ground.

Minsc wrote:Overall, barring animosity, I'd wager Orcs & Goblins have some of the best Core infantry units in the game (especially when talking pre-Magic). Boyz of all varieties, Night Goblins, and arguably Common Goblins (if lucky with Stabbaz) are all rather solid units.

6-10pts a model for Boyz, but on the low end you're looking at S3(4) T4, high end WS4 S4(5) T4 with either three ranks totting 5+ saves (and three ranks of S5 WS4 attacks at that point price isn't shabby), two ranks totting 5+ / 6++ saves and basically one less rank worth of attacks, or two ranks with an extra attack per frontage at the price of some durability. Less than 300pts for 30 of them with Standard, Musician, and two of the three "high end" combinations.

The issue being that OnG core have to struggle against Animosity, and - while having good spells - the OnG buffs don't compare to the BRB / Army Book ones that other armies can reliably get. Furthermore, if there's one failing of OnG's, it's Leadership: Those Big 'Uns are only Leadership 7 (meaning they're literally 50% likely to fail any check before talking about negative modifiers), and it only goes downhill from there.

If in a pure vacuum while looking at Core selections v Core selections, I'd lean heavily toward Orcs & Goblins. However, such is not the case. You're almost never going to see a WHFB game wherein two core units of the same points amount repeatedly smash into each other on neutral ground.

I would say the best in the book is Black Orcs ,but they are too expensive

Savage Big'uns(low Ld and animosity)

Regular Boys (Cheap but not particularly strong)

Night Gobbos(uber cheap and sometimes strong enough with all the special rules to do alright. )

Dwarf warriors + great weapons...

m00ndragon wrote:DOESNT ANYONE READ THE FIRST POST?

Yes. And I, and others, chose to ignore it. It is irrelevant in the game mechanics if you're spreading it across Core and Special. Why not Rare? There is no point that anyone needs to know the best two-legged model in the game across Core+Special, but not big two-legged (MI) and sometimes four-legged. It's a nonsense question. It's like which model with a helmet is the best that also has the letter "Y" in its name? It's a fluff question and you're asking it from a mechanics point of view.

Also, you don't get to decide how people respond. That's what a discussion board is.

Dwarf Hammerers are pretty solid.

Stubborn, WS5, S6, T4? Ace.

I will argue for the Savage Orc Big 'Uns though. With a Shaman with Shrunken Head, you've got a unit that can put out lots of damage and potentially take a decent amount of hits.

What the heck, I'll be loyal to my army and try to make a plausible argument for Dryads

For their points (and for a core slot), you don't get that bad a profile - S/T 4 and I 6 in particular, plus their 5+ (quasi) ward save. The fact they have to skirmish hits them hard in a stand-up fight, but I've always played it that if my Dryads are in a stand-up fight, something's gone wrong They're fast / manouverable enough to get round people's flanks, and a small unit of them make a good redirector if need be. Plus, the models are amazing - does that count as a valid point?

So yeah, toe-to-toe no chance, but for their points and when you think of manouverability, redirects, other sneaky WE stuff etc. they're not half bad.