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First things first. This is not a whining thread about how one of my favorite factions is oh-so-underpowered. It's meant to be tongue-in-cheek.

Still, it's quite funny to leaf over more recent codices and notice rules, wargear and units that were transplanted or clearly inspires on the loved, hated 3.5 CSM codex. Lets seer:

-Relic Blade (SM): Use to be called Dark Blade and be more avialable. I guess they scratched off the 8-point stars and aded extra aquilas to make sure!

-Gray Hunters(SW): Troops that can have flexible configurations, spam special weapons, and remember to bring their pistol and sword in addition to the bolter for better CC options? I've seen this before....

-Saga of the Bear? (SW): Not sure this is the right name. Anyway, once upon a time you could make a chaos HQ an Eternal Warrior buying a Daemonic Rune. Apparently it was ruled as too strong an ability...if you lack enlarged canines.

-Fenris Wolves (SW): You know, I'm sensing a theme here. While the puppies certainly didn't lift Long Fangs from Chaos, all the other near stuff they have has a very 3.5 feel! These used to be Chaos Hounds.
-Digital Weapons (SM) Spiky bits? Is that you?

-Artificer armor (SM): Daemon Armor! How dare you turn on us like that!

-Attack Squig (Orks): Daemonic Mutation left our codex altogether and became someone's pet.

-Nemesis Greatsword (GK): Hello, Warptime! In fact, I racell it being nerfed for Chaos not long after the Grey Knights got it. Hmmm.

These are just the ones I remembered off the top of my head while at work. I'll expand later. Feel free to add your own contributions!

EDIT: Fixed with some corrections and more stuff.

Wolf Guard have existed since the SW codex has AFAIK...
And IIRC they have more or less been similar in each codex...
Though they are definately more flexible in this edition...

Wait, game mechanics from one codex made it into another, newer codex? STOP THE PRESSES!

IIRC you forgot about Blood Talons.

Yep it was too broken for Bararoth to keep getting attacks with a S4 power weapon, but it was totally cool on a dreadnaught with S6 and re-rolls wounds that is half the cost.

I'm still waiting for marines to get Crystal targeting matrix.

Not surprising, they stole Living Metal too

Vanilla Marines took my Sisters' Blessed Weapon and called it a Relic Blade. I guess they re-painted the Aquilas, then set factories to work on mass-producing them.

Sephyr wrote:

-Wolf Guard (SW): Troops that can have flexible configurations, spam special weapons, and remember to bring their pistol and sword in addition to the bolter for better CC options? I've seen this before....

A Wolf Guard can't have a bolter and 2 close combat weapons since he starts with only bolt pistol and close combat weapon and has to replace one of the with a bolter.

Gargantuan wrote:

Sephyr wrote:

-Wolf Guard (SW): Troops that can have flexible configurations, spam special weapons, and remember to bring their pistol and sword in addition to the bolter for better CC options? I've seen this before....

A Wolf Guard can't have a bolter and 2 close combat weapons since he starts with only bolt pistol and close combat weapon and has to replace one of the with a bolter.

he means grey hunters

The imperium took the Eldar grenades :(

Thing is though Chaos -doesn't- get all that cool gak anymore!

Because it mutated into worthless Spawn. Them's the breaks.

The Chaos Codex is balls, but maybe we'll get a new one this year.

(Balls for doing everything except one specific uninteresting build)

Welcome to my biggest rant of the 3.5 to 4th to 5th edition codex change over.

So much taken away from the Chaos codex due to streamlining and crys of power creep/abuse only to find their counterparts show up in the marine codex like Iron Clad dreads for the AV13 and all mentions of Vet skills.

Ahh well, this complaint is as old as the day the codex was released. Nothing really new to add here.

IG rules/equipment stolen by Marines.

Combat Squads. Used to be IG were the only ones that could split a squad into two units. Now IG cannot but Marines can.
Vendetta. Yeah, the stormchicken, better armor (anti-melta and 12 rear), better capacity, better weapons options But thank the Emperor that it cannot Scout.
Deep strike out of the Vendetta. Yeah, they can jump out of the stormchicken. If IG mishap when they do it, unit destroyed. Does that happen to Marines. Of course not.
Predators. Yep, look it up, they were originally IG vehicles.
Landspeeders. Well, not so much that they stole them, but GW took them away from the lowly IG.

And these are just off the top of my head, I'm sure if I actually lloked through the old books, I could easily find more.

don_mondo wrote:IG rules/equipment stolen by Marines.

Combat Squads. Used to be IG were the only ones that could split a squad into two units. Now IG cannot but Marines can.
Vendetta. Yeah, the stormchicken, better armor (anti-melta and 12 rear), better capacity, better weapons options But thank the Emperor that it cannot Scout.
Deep strike out of the Vendetta. Yeah, they can jump out of the stormchicken. If IG mishap when they do it, unit destroyed. Does that happen to Marines. Of course not.
Predators. Yep, look it up, they were originally IG vehicles.
Landspeeders. Well, not so much that they stole them, but GW took them away from the lowly IG.

And these are just off the top of my head, I'm sure if I actually lloked through the old books, I could easily find more.

the storm chicken made me laugh quite hard.
Thanks mondo ^^

Ravenous D wrote:Yep it was too broken for Bararoth to keep getting attacks with a S4 power weapon, but it was totally cool on a dreadnaught with S6 and re-rolls wounds that is half the cost.
.

And then they gave it to Pentitent Engines, but only in the 'fixed' version. 'cause they are not marines!

Sephyr wrote:
First things first. This is not a whining thread about how one of my favorite factions is oh-so-underpowered. It's meant to be tongue-in-cheek.

Still, it's quite funny to leaf over more recent codices and notice rules, wargear and units that were transplanted or clearly inspires on the loved, hated 3.5 CSM codex. Lets seer:

-Relic Blade (SM): Use to be called Dark Blade and be more avialable. I guess they scratched off the 8-point stars and aded extra aquilas to make sure!chaos stole it from dark angels

-Wolf Guard (SW): Troops that can have flexible configurations, spam special weapons, and remember to bring their pistol and sword in addition to the bolter for better CC options? I've seen this before....
!this was in 3rd SW too remember, and 3.5 came out after that

-Saga of the Bear? (SW): Not sure this is the right name. Anyway, once upon a time you could make a chaos HQ an Eternal Warrior buying a Daemonic Rune. Apparently it was ruled as too strong an ability...if you lack enlarged canines.
!yep thats pretty true lol

These are just the ones I remembered off the top of my head while at work. I'll expand later. Feel free to add your own contributions!

If Chaos had stuff that others had before 3.5, they stole it fair and square, I tell ya!

Shandara wrote:

Ravenous D wrote:Yep it was too broken for Bararoth to keep getting attacks with a S4 power weapon, but it was totally cool on a dreadnaught with S6 and re-rolls wounds that is half the cost.
.

And then they gave it to Pentitent Engines, but only in the 'fixed' version. 'cause they are not marines!

I call it the Marine tax, if you dont play marines you pay the marine tax of no grenades, self damaging rules and overpriced units

-Artificer armor (SM): Daemon Armor! How dare you turn on us like that!

They even took the Artificer armor from Friggen Kharn and Lucius! I mean...wow..

IT'S STILL LISTED IN THEIR FLUFF TOO.

I'm sorry, but it's still one of the few things I cannot understand, why did they remove Lucius Artificer armor and than give him an ability based around making saves!?

I didn't know how much imperial, well rather SM codices, stole from other books in previous editions. Real eye opener, thanks!

And this is completely disgraceful and I understand the need to rant about it.

Sephyr wrote:
-Artificer armor (SM): Daemon Armor! How dare you turn on us like that!


-Nemesis Greatsword (GK): Hello, Warptime! In fact, I racell it being nerfed for Chaos not long after the Grey Knights got it. Hmmm.

No, just... no. A Psychic power that lets everyone in that squad who isn't Khârn reroll misses and wounds isn't the same as one model getting the option to get a weapon with a similar rule.

Furthermore, Codex: Daemonhunters, a contemporary Codex to the 3.5 Chaos Codex, had Artificier Armour in it, so that's hardly "they took it from Chaos, the copycats!"-worthy.

No, just... no. A Psychic power that lets everyone in that squad who isn't Khârn reroll misses and wounds isn't the same as one model getting the option to get a weapon with a similar ru

Warptime only worked on the model that had cast it. Otherwise Thousand Sons might actually be a bit more useful as MEQ killers.

It would've made the sorcerer useful too, but nope.

Sephyr wrote:If Chaos had stuff that others had before 3.5, they stole it fair and square, I tell ya!

Dark angels had the sword of secrets in 3rd (pre chaos 3.5) and lost it in 4th, only azrael has one now, then 5th space marines came out and every man and his dog was allowed to take one, smurfs musta stole them from he dark angels armoury, actually... since Dark Angels want to be Ultramarines they probably swapped them for..... oh

Dark angels had the sword of secrets in 3rd (pre chaos 3.5) and lost it in 4th, only azrael has one now,

Belial and Sammeal have one.

AlmightyWalrus wrote:

No, just... no. A Psychic power that lets everyone in that squad who isn't Khârn reroll misses and wounds isn't the same as one model getting the option to get a weapon with a similar rule.

Furthermore, Codex: Daemonhunters, a contemporary Codex to the 3.5 Chaos Codex, had Artificier Armour in it, so that's hardly "they took it from Chaos, the copycats!"-worthy.

Warptime affects only the model casting it. Its the reason it was so popular on Daemon Princes geared for melee before the big nerf, way moire than the Khorne mark, in fact, because it made them very efficient. Even if it was often shut down by hoods. Unsurprisingly, the GK version is better in all ways: needs no casting roll, cannot be cancelled and includes penetration rolls.

As for the Daemon Armor...yeah, it was a bit tongue in cheek. I'm more puzzled that they removed something that existed to give it to other, more popular codices than who had it originally, to be honest.

Sephyr wrote:-Artificer armor (SM): Daemon Armor! How dare you turn on us like that!

Ummmm...Artificer armor has pretty much been around since the beginning Rogue Trader. Also "daemon" armor, or really chaos armor was brought into the game from WHFB versions of chaos, so is also already pulled from one force and used in another in a different game even.

Not sure what the point is of your post overall, though, these are all ideas that have existed and exist again in a slightly different form in the game. I don't think it is some kind of weird conspiracy to steal all the fruits of chaos' labors to benefit other armies.

Skriker

Skriker wrote:

Sephyr wrote:-Artificer armor (SM): Daemon Armor! How dare you turn on us like that!

Ummmm...Artificer armor has pretty much been around since the beginning Rogue Trader. Also "daemon" armor, or really chaos armor was brought into the game from WHFB versions of chaos, so is also already pulled from one force and used in another in a different game even.

What he means is that chaos lost all instances of it, even on the special characters like Kharn and Lucius

ZebioLizard2 wrote:What he means is that chaos lost all instances of it, even on the special characters like Kharn and Lucius

What I got from the OP was that chaos lost access to it and then it "magically appeared out of the blue as an option in a marine based codex". And within that context artificer armor has been around forever, so its not just some new thing that got added to give marines chaos armor equivelents today.

Skriker