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Just sitting here after backing my fourth project and wondering if GW had a sudden brainwave (madness?) and brought back specialist games via Kickstarter one game at a time, would folks back them?

Say a game like Necromunda, putting the required kickstarter target at what the box run would cost, and then if that was successful opening up the additional gangs not in the box to fund the cost to make them plastic. It would be bizarre on one hand and quite a slow release method, but actually giving us the option to say, yeah we do want that game back, and we're happy to pay up front. I'd be happy with that.

Could you see yourself doing that, and do you think enough of the player base exists to fund them?

I really suspect we will never see the games again, and even if we do, a fair amount of the teams/gangs etc will be missing as it is likely we'll just see a box revamp. If it was price I had to pay, I would be happy to go down this road, but do many share that idea, I just feel an odd need to raise the question.

I'm a long backer of kickstarter and don't see this ever happening.

For one, it would mean GW gives up nearly 10% of it'smoney right off the bat between kickstarter and amazon fees.

It would also imply that they don't have the readies to put something like it back into production.

For a company who wants to play with "the big boys", this alone would do more to damage their "brand" than simply not doing it.

No.

And, besides, Kickstarter shouldn't be a way for large companies to get money. A company the size of GW should have all the funding needed, and the knowledge of its own customers, to be able to offer Specialist games.

Of course, should is the important bit.

Kickstarter will not do anything that GW doesn't already have/

GW already has the funds to do whatever they want; their profit margins of their stuff is immense because you people keep giving them money in spite of your short-lived 'boycotts'. Regardless, their main business is the allocation of the talent at the company towards design and production.
GW's main reason they avoid Specialist Games is that they find other projects, even terrain (it seems) a better allocation of the talent and manpower they have.

Kickstarter is for people that have the talent but lack the funds. GW has both the talent and the funds already.

I thought it's a well-known fact that Specialist Games will never be supported by GW and are kept in production just to sue anyone who would want to support them. Simply because people should not be allowed to play for years with just 10 toy soldiers.

Yeah I know they won't, thats why I put madness in brackets, but I wasn't asking if they would, I know the answer to this already.

My question was would folks back it if it happened, and do we think their are enough of us to make such a funding a reality?

Hypothetical question is Hypothetical.

Given that's it's GW they'd still want you to purchase the product as well as pledging money.

Absolutionis wrote:GW already has the funds to do whatever they want; their profit margins of their stuff is immense because you people keep giving them money in spite of your short-lived 'boycotts'.

I find it gratifying that you are so dedicated to insulting GW fans that turn threads about tangentially related topics into excuses to slag off GW fans for being weak-willed patsies.

GW has no need to do it, wouldn't want to have to give anything to Kickstarter/Amazon Payments/IndieGoGo, doesn't really want to give away anything for free (Stretch Goals - Hell No!), etc.

In short, people would absolutely back it, but it absolutely isn't happening, ever!

GW doesnt give us specialist games because they don't want to.

End of story.

Alpharius wrote:GW has no need to do it, wouldn't want to have to give anything to Kickstarter/Amazon Payments/IndieGoGo, doesn't really want to give away anything for free (Stretch Goals - Hell No!), etc.

In short, people would absolutely back it, but it absolutely isn't happening, ever!

But just imagine how much money GW would get if they just posted the following:

Our first and only stretch goal: Mat Ward will have nothing to do with the game.

Gnawer wrote:I thought it's a well-known fact that Specialist Games will never be supported by GW and are kept in production just to sue anyone who would want to support them. Simply because people should not be allowed to play for years with just 3 toy soldiers.

Fixed that for you Gnawer...Remember, everything you have heard is a lie

Remember, everything you have heard is a lie

That's right, forgot about Possesed etc, thanks. Or maybe I'm so brainwashed now I'm actively repressing their minimal model count, because it just seems unrealistic.

The fact that you're asking if GWS should use Kickstarter to produce something kind of implies you have a deeply held misunderstanding about either GWS business or why Kickstarter exists. I don't mean to be insulting, it's just the two really have no real use for each other. It's akin to asking if GWS should put kiosks in Best Buy like Apple to sell their stuff.

Chromedog has the right of it, it would make GWS look awful to do this in return for absolutely no tangible gain.

Morathi's Darkest Sin wrote:Yeah I know they won't, thats why I put madness in brackets, but I wasn't asking if they would, I know the answer to this already.

My question was would folks back it if it happened, and do we think their are enough of us to make such a funding a reality?

Hypothetical question is Hypothetical.

Well TBH I'm getting hypothetically angry just at the thought of it!

Massive reductions in investment, cheaper material with Finecast, cutting the R&D and WD budget, and then a shareholder dividend payout followed by a request for money so they can finance a game they should never have stopped making in the first place?

You know, before this idea I had struggled to think of a way that GW could upset me any more than they have done already in the past year - but I think you've found it right there Morathi's Darkest Sin!

Blood Bowl...I would invest in Blood Bowl. I've converted my own team in the meantime.

If the kickstarter included sweet extras I would do it.

I would not contribute just to get a reprint of an existing game.

I don't see GW ever doing it though. They freaking hate discounts of any kind.

I don't think it would be viable, somebody would complain that the 40k universe is too violent and "offensive" (for example, the book where a CHILD farseer gets "molested") and they would have to take it down, it would actually be interesting to see if with all the money involved KK stays true to it's "ideals".

If GW went down the kickstarter route, as a traded company I could see them taking a bit of a hit on the market (looks like they can't/won't finance their own new products!).

Anyway if they wanted to do that they have the resources and the website/payment sustem to do their own version without the drawback of giving others a fee.

Yes right.. I think there are a few misconceptions here of what Kickstarter actually is and its function. A company the size of GW and with their resources simply wouldn't need to make use of the kind of services that Kickstarter provides.

In analogy I would say they are like a once pristine Honda RC30 that has gone far too many miles without an oil change or service, and is desperately in need of a polish to restore it to some of its previous brilliance. But, it was kickstarted something like 25 years ago

I think the GW and Kickstarter idea would be great for the hobby. Firstly GW doesn’t need to use Kickstarter and I am quite sure they could handle the payment part just fine on their own, thus no fees.
Now I will use Space Hulk as an example. GW uses the pledge type sale and gets to keep all the profit margin and doesn’t have to sell through stores. Stores receive something like 40-45% off the retail price. This additional margin allows for neat extras in the form of stretch goals. They already do their “Black Box” and I would much prefer to know what is coming out and the extras available if certain goals are hit. Also GW could gage sales and not sit on a ten year supply of Dread Fleet.

Let’s look at Blood Bowl. GW announces Blood Bowl in a pledge type sale. You get current rules, a new cool pitch, 2 teams of your choice for the current range, some ref figs, and one star player for each of your two teams. Stretch goals: plastic sprue so you can make a straight section of spectator stands, corner section of stands, ability to buy enough sections to make a whole stadium, Extra sprues to made different styles of a stadium, additional figures and game aids could be endless, and perhaps some t-shirts and pins.

When I was running a game store many years ago I had a discussion about Blood Bowl with the sales reps if it would ever come back into print. Basically if you play a certain specialist game your part of a vocal group who wants to see it back in print and once the people wanting one have it the sales drop off. I think the pledge system would be a great way to provide the specialist range and would in no way make GW look bad. It’s a safe bet and all benefit.

Just my two drachmas worth.

The kickstarter for Zombiecide got circa 5000 pledges, so 5,000 to 10,000 copies.

Dreadfleet, and unknown game which GW made significantly less copies of than Spulk, had a print run of 60,000 copies (if memory serves me correctly?).

GW are operating in such a significantly larger scale than most others that they have no real reason to waste time and energy on kickstarter type activities. If Bloodbowl gets done to a Spulk standard they know they can make 250,000 copies and shift them in no time. A few thousand upfront sales plus the unknown quantity that would be stretch goals makes it a bit of a non starter. They would be better served by polls on hat to bring back.

Dreadfleet, and unknown game which GW made significantly less copies of than Spulk, had a print run of 60,000 copies (if memory serves me correctly?).

Think it was far more than that as I was quoted, closer to a 15, 000 run from the people whom I talked too. Eh I could be wrong but there are approx 400 GW stores world wide. 10 copies of the product on the average per store would yield 4000 copies leaving 9000 copies for indies and warehouse. One thing I know for a fact that GW is very conservative (and a smart thing actually) with their print runs. The print run could also be in between what you remember and what was quoted to me.

GW, IMHO would never go this route (using Kick Starter), just because of their business model that they have been using. It works for them. In their minds, why change it?

Actually I was wrong, I just had a look at the product brief PDF that was kicking about At release and he actual number was 65,000 worldwide for dreadfleet.

notprop wrote:Actually I was wrong, I just had a look at the product brief PDF that was kicking about At release and he actual number was 65,000 worldwide for dreadfleet.

Would love to see the PDF. It gives me a good reason to fly down to Tennessee and talk to somebody in the summer.

Hell need a good reason to do anything actually.