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So I've been bouncing around the 40k wiki, and something just occured to me. Aside from the bolter, which is apparently of .998 caliber ( ), little is said about the technical specifications of the weapons of the Imperium, or the 40k world in general. I can understand that, for most of us, this means little, but for a guy who understands and very much enjoys a little technicality, this can be frustrating.

To get this ball rolling, I'll make a quick assesment of the Imperial Autocannon. Based on it's relative size in pictures and drawings, and the ammunition capacity of the Predators that carry it, I'd be willing to wager it's somewhere in the 40-57mm range. For those who don't understand, a shell of 30mm in diameter, with a proper tungsten carbide or DU penetrator and a high rate of fire, is a reliable AT weapon against modern MBTs (T-90, M1 Abrams, Merkavah Mk. IV, Leclerc, ect.). So 40mm or 57mm, the two most common calibers in that range, are FETHING BIG.

GW is very clever with its laziness. Any inconsistencies in range, power, etc. of weapons can be dismissed as "there is little standardization across Forge Worlds and many different patterns exist".

I do agree the Autocannon is probably analogous to the Soviet S-60 anti-aircraft gun (57mm). In the IDF we've successfully used captured S-60's in the anti-tank role, though it was against Syrian armor in the Yom Kippur War.

Harriticus wrote:GW is very clever with its laziness. Any inconsistencies in range, power, etc. of weapons can be dismissed as "there is little standardization across Forge Worlds and many different patterns exist".

I do agree the Autocannon is probably analogous to the Soviet S-60 anti-aircraft gun (57mm). In the IDF we've successfully used captured S-60's in the anti-tank role, though it was against Syrian armor in the Yom Kippur War.

Precisely my thoughts. With 40k-modern adamentite AP, or melta-charge HE, or whatever else you could think of, the autocannon on the Pred could easily fill its role of anti-infantry/light and medium anti-armor.

How about ye olde lascannon? Can we get a physics major in here to tell us the kind of wattage a laser would need to punch through a tank like that?

Given what it can do in fluff, I doubt one needs a degree in physics to see that a Lascannon would turn a modern MBT into swiss cheese. Same applies to Melta and Plasma weapons. Even a standard Lasgun at high-power could probably penetrate Leopard 2/Abrams/Merkava/etc. frontal armor.

Most Imperial tanks are covered in a material known as plasteel, which is described as "futuristic metal". Given this vague description, I think it's a not-so-subtle hint that a Russ has far more protection then our current tanks.

A lasgun would never go through our tanks. Then they Eldar even should be impervious to CC attacks. It is however a better weapon than anything we have because it's without recoil and you can recharge the ammo.

Harriticus wrote:Given what it can do in fluff, I doubt one needs a degree in physics to see that a Lascannon would turn a modern MBT into swiss cheese. Same applies to Melta and Plasma weapons. Even a standard Lasgun at high-power could probably penetrate Leopard 2/Abrams/Merkava/etc. frontal armor.

Most Imperial tanks are covered in a material known as plasteel, which is described as "futuristic metal". Given this vague description, I think it's a not-so-subtle hint that a Russ has far more protection then our current tanks.

Noted. We can take the armor of, say, an M1 Abrams, which is a titanium ceramic composite with layers of depleted uranium. The most mature laser-based weapon currently in use, as far as I know, is the Boeing ATL system, which is essentially a 100-kilowatt oxygen-iodine laser mounted in a ball-turret under the belly of a C-130. Let us say, for argument's sake, that the armor of an LRBT is 10 times as effective as that of the M1 Abrams, we're looking at at least a laser in the 1000-kilowatt range. Probably even higher, since laser weapons are common in the 41st millennium, and the LRBT's armor is probably purpose designed to counter them.

TermiesInARaider wrote:Aside from the bolter, which is apparently of .998 caliber ( ) [...]

There is a model 998 bolter. It has a calibre of 0.75 inches. Heavy bolters have a calibre of 1.00 inch.

GW has been relatively consistent on this sort of stuff, but various licensed products as well as fan interpretations (including much of the stuff posted on Lexicanum) end up twisting the image - especially when people try to mesh different sources that weren't meant to be compatible in the first place. Remember, there is no canon in 40k.

Lynata wrote:

TermiesInARaider wrote:Aside from the bolter, which is apparently of .998 caliber ( ) [...]

There is a model 998 bolter. It has a calibre of 0.75 inches. Heavy bolters have a calibre of 1.00 inch.

GW has been relatively consistent on this sort of stuff, but various licensed products as well as fan interpretations (including much of the stuff posted on Lexicanum) end up twisting the image - especially when people try to mesh different sources that weren't meant to be compatible in the first place. Remember, there is no canon in 40k.

Aha, thanks much for the clarification. My bad.

But thankfully, lots of cannon.

There is a bit more info on a few weapons in the old 2nd ed wargear books and in the Uplifting Primer and Munitorum Manual. However as noted above why pin down exactly how magic future tech actually works when it could come back and bite you in future writing. Much better to leave the mechanics vague and the effects awesome

Flinty wrote:But thankfully, lots of cannon.

There is a bit more info on a few weapons in the old 2nd ed wargear books and in the Uplifting Primer and Munitorum Manual. However as noted above why pin down exactly how magic future tech actually works when it could come back and bite you in future writing. Much better to leave the mechanics vague and the effects awesome

It's cool to speculate on the equivalencies to real world weaponry though. Or at least, I'm finding it interesting to read.

htj wrote:

Flinty wrote:But thankfully, lots of cannon.

There is a bit more info on a few weapons in the old 2nd ed wargear books and in the Uplifting Primer and Munitorum Manual. However as noted above why pin down exactly how magic future tech actually works when it could come back and bite you in future writing. Much better to leave the mechanics vague and the effects awesome

It's cool to speculate on the equivalencies to real world weaponry though. Or at least, I'm finding it interesting to read.

Exactly! This is all just for the lolz.

The Assault Cannon is an easy parallel to make, any 25-35mm gun would do. Normally, those weapons are relegated to aircraft and vehicle mounts, and the primary 35mm rotary cannon in use by NATO forces is the GAU-8, which, with all its mechanisms and its COLOSSAL ammunition drum, is about the size of an old-school VW Beetle. I'd wager that it's only because of year 40,000 technology, that such a colossal weapon could be miniaturized to the point a Terminator could carry it. This also fits with the general level of armor we've extrapolated. if a 35mm cannon has the ability to tackle MBT-grade armor in modern times, that would extend well to the in-game, 40k assault cannon, which, thanks to Rending, is a legitimate threat against transports and other light armor, assuming that 40k transports have armor comparable to modern-day MBTs.

How about ye olde lascannon? Can we get a physics major in here to tell us the kind of wattage a laser would need to punch through a tank like that?

Way more than 1.2 jigawatts.

Psienesis wrote:

How about ye olde lascannon? Can we get a physics major in here to tell us the kind of wattage a laser would need to punch through a tank like that?

Way more than 1.2 jigawatts.

FULL OF WIN! *high-fives*

Back on topic, the Assault Cannon, now that I think about it, would most likely either use 20mm or 25mm shells. Even a terminator could only carry enough 35mm ammo for scant moments of fire, even with heavy governing on the weapon and a backpack full of ammo.

i've always equated Auto Cannons to 40mm shells due to their multi purpose useage.
Hydras have quad Auto cannon and a 40mm Bofors would be very similar in usage and if chopped down size wise could become man portable (if barely), 57mm is just a bit to big for me.

I've always seen mention that the Battle cannon (and Vanquisher) is a 120mm weapon.

Demolisher cannon id wager is possibly 200mm and loaded with assitance of a powered ram. (They are supposedly like mini rockets with little engines in the rear to propell them, akin to the WW2 SturmTiger shells which were giant Naval Rockets)

Nova cannon would be similar if the same size of a Demolisher Cannon shell just not rocket powered siege shells

Punisher Cannons....... due to their weaker power i would think would be spewing out 50 cal shells but even then powerwise a Stubber (aka the big 50) has more power and AP ability. so im not sure.

Baneblade Battle Cannons could be in the range of 150 or 170mm with rocket assisted shells due to their brute force and power.


Earth Shaker cannons (Basilisk cannon)..... Maybe the traditional 155mm would be their size. (Lexicanum says 132mm with the shell 38 kilograms in weight, which is weird i've never heard of a 132mm)
Collosus mortar = 350mm or 400m, the shells are HUGE.
Heavy Mortars (like on the Gryphon) are probly 100m shells that are hand loaded into the muzzle.

The Nova Cannon (if you mean the one mounted on large starships) lays waste to regions tens of thousands of kilometers across. I think it's a much, much larger shell than 200mm, and probably has anti-matter or something in it.

Psienesis wrote:The Nova Cannon (if you mean the one mounted on large starships) lays waste to regions tens of thousands of kilometers across. I think it's a much, much larger shell than 200mm, and probably has anti-matter or something in it.

Nova Cannon as in the one strapped to the Erradicator Leman Russ

I always imagined the hydra as a 40k version of this

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Bmpt_REA_2009.jpg

TermiesInARaider wrote:So I've been bouncing around the 40k wiki, and something just occured to me. Aside from the bolter, which is apparently of .998 caliber ( ), little is said about the technical specifications of the weapons of the Imperium, or the 40k world in general. I can understand that, for most of us, this means little, but for a guy who understands and very much enjoys a little technicality, this can be frustrating.

To get this ball rolling, I'll make a quick assesment of the Imperial Autocannon. Based on it's relative size in pictures and drawings, and the ammunition capacity of the Predators that carry it, I'd be willing to wager it's somewhere in the 40-57mm range. For those who don't understand, a shell of 30mm in diameter, with a proper tungsten carbide or DU penetrator and a high rate of fire, is a reliable AT weapon against modern MBTs (T-90, M1 Abrams, Merkavah Mk. IV, Leclerc, ect.). So 40mm or 57mm, the two most common calibers in that range, are FETHING BIG.

I'd reckon its more like 84mm. (See at4 rocket launcer) the shell itself is relatively small and extremely powerful

Engine of War wrote:

Psienesis wrote:The Nova Cannon (if you mean the one mounted on large starships) lays waste to regions tens of thousands of kilometers across. I think it's a much, much larger shell than 200mm, and probably has anti-matter or something in it.

Nova Cannon as in the one strapped to the Erradicator Leman Russ

So NOT the big giant cannon on them cruisers that fire timed explosive thingies at the speed of light

Engine of War wrote:
I've always seen mention that the Battle cannon (and Vanquisher) is a 120mm weapon.

It is a lot bigger, although if WH40K wanted realism it would probably be about 150mm in diameter, since it allows one to fire effectively an artillery sized HE round while not making the gun so big AT rounds are 3 meters long.

Demolisher cannon id wager is possibly 200mm and loaded with assitance of a powered ram.

Actually Germans made something like that in WW2, it was something like a 400mm gun that fired rocket propelled HE shells and was meant to level entire buildings. Only like a dozen were ever made, but demolition tanks exist, can't remember any names, but the British use a 165mm gun that fire really slow moving shells.

Nova cannon would be similar if the same size of a Demolisher Cannon shell just not rocket powered siege shells

Fluffwise Nova Cannon is strange, it seems to imply that it is like a small nuclear bomb, but the way it works in game makes it seem more like it fires some sort of thermobaric shell.

Baneblade Battle Cannons could be in the range of 150 or 170mm with rocket assisted shells due to their brute force and power.

Probably close, although I imagine it might be closer to a small battleship cannon so up to 300mm in diameter.

Earth Shaker cannons (Basilisk cannon)..... Maybe the traditional 155mm would be their size. (Lexicanum says 132mm with the shell 38 kilograms in weight, which is weird i've never heard of a 132mm)

Range wise it is about on par with old 155mm guns, not sure about any modern artillery guns about that size.

Collosus mortar = 350mm or 400m, the shells are HUGE.

Yep something like Big Bertha.

Heavy Mortars (like on the Gryphon) are probly 100m shells that are hand loaded into the muzzle.

For the Griffon I feel like the term mortar is a misnomer, most of the fluff makes it seem more like a short howitzer.

Has anyone mentioned this and its family?: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XM312

Just to say something about the "vagueness" of the fluff in regards to laser, melta and plasma weaponry if we actually knew in detail how it worked, we would be using it today. Baring in mind that the majority of the imperiums tech are fragments of what humanity used during the golden age of tech, a time where much technology would be in our eyes akin to "magic".

vodo40k wrote:Just to say something about the "vagueness" of the fluff in regards to laser, melta and plasma weaponry if we actually knew in detail how it worked, we would be using it today. Baring in mind that the majority of the imperiums tech are fragments of what humanity used during the golden age of tech, a time where much technology would be in our eyes akin to "magic".

Maybe not exactly, but with the right know-how, you can estimate things like wattage for lasers, and assorted other measurements. Not scientific in any regard, but an estimation, for sure.

vodo40k wrote:Just to say something about the "vagueness" of the fluff in regards to laser, melta and plasma weaponry if we actually knew in detail how it worked, we would be using it today. Baring in mind that the majority of the imperiums tech are fragments of what humanity used during the golden age of tech, a time where much technology would be in our eyes akin to "magic".

well for lasers we know how to make one (to a degree)..... the only main issue being they take up as much power as a small city to make lethal to any degree and even more so to tear through thin sheets of metal or plastic.

plasma weapons and metla weapons we don't know how to make and they are for the most part fictional science in some ways mixed with real science to make them kewl.


EDit: im gonna add that we can make a Railgun (yes Tau tech) rather well, but again, power requirments to make it workable are a pain in the bum! notice the large cords attached to the backend, they lead to a giant bank of capacitors that couldn't be fit on somethign like a tank. (maybe a ship but its not powerful enough for naval deployment as im aware right now)

Lynata wrote:

TermiesInARaider wrote:Aside from the bolter, which is apparently of .998 caliber ( ) [...]

There is a model 998 bolter. It has a calibre of 0.75 inches. Heavy bolters have a calibre of 1.00 inch.

GW has been relatively consistent on this sort of stuff, but various licensed products as well as fan interpretations (including much of the stuff posted on Lexicanum) end up twisting the image - especially when people try to mesh different sources that weren't meant to be compatible in the first place. Remember, there is no canon in 40k.

Actually...in the game space marine they said the bolter fired .998 bolts.
I think Relic might have done goofed though.

Lynata wrote:but various licensed products as well as fan interpretations (including much of the stuff posted on Lexicanum) end up twisting the image - especially when people try to mesh different sources that weren't meant to be compatible in the first place

I know you love to rage against licensed products, but I DEFY you to show me a single licensed product taht says that boltguns and bolt pistols are 1.00 caliber.

CthuluIsSpy wrote:Actually...in the game space marine they said the bolter fired .998 bolts.

I don't remember that. Have a screenshot or something? I recall it saying .75 caliber.

Engine of War wrote:

vodo40k wrote:Just to say something about the "vagueness" of the fluff in regards to laser, melta and plasma weaponry if we actually knew in detail how it worked, we would be using it today. Baring in mind that the majority of the imperiums tech are fragments of what humanity used during the golden age of tech, a time where much technology would be in our eyes akin to "magic".

well for lasers we know how to make one (to a degree)..... the only main issue being they take up as much power as a small city to make lethal to any degree and even more so to tear through thin sheets of metal or plastic.

plasma weapons and metla weapons we don't know how to make and they are for the most part fictional science in some ways mixed with real science to make them kewl.


EDit: im gonna add that we can make a Railgun (yes Tau tech) rather well, but again, power requirments to make it workable are a pain in the bum! notice the large cords attached to the backend, they lead to a giant bank of capacitors that couldn't be fit on somethign like a tank. (maybe a ship but its not powerful enough for naval deployment as im aware right now)

With railguns the power is less of an issue than the sheer heat created by the friction of the round firing. After a few shots the barrel pretty much becomes slag and like every third shot gets melted to the barrel.

Skip to 13:29 in the video

It clearly says .998 Godwyn Pattern Bolter

The GAU-8 is actually a 30mm, not a 35mm.

Seems like a decent comparison with the autocannon. It chews through light armor with ease.

The assault cannon is most comperable to the 20mm.

Engine of War wrote:

vodo40k wrote:Just to say something about the "vagueness" of the fluff in regards to laser, melta and plasma weaponry if we actually knew in detail how it worked, we would be using it today. Baring in mind that the majority of the imperiums tech are fragments of what humanity used during the golden age of tech, a time where much technology would be in our eyes akin to "magic".

well for lasers we know how to make one (to a degree)..... the only main issue being they take up as much power as a small city to make lethal to any degree and even more so to tear through thin sheets of metal or plastic.

plasma weapons and metla weapons we don't know how to make and they are for the most part fictional science in some ways mixed with real science to make them kewl.


EDit: im gonna add that we can make a Railgun (yes Tau tech) rather well, but again, power requirments to make it workable are a pain in the bum! notice the large cords attached to the backend, they lead to a giant bank of capacitors that couldn't be fit on somethign like a tank. (maybe a ship but its not powerful enough for naval deployment as im aware right now)

The reason i said the thing about technological "magic" is that its likely the imperium have some kind of ridiculously high yield battery or some kind of localised fusion (SM backpacks work on this principle I think) and i dont think theres any limit to the amount of energy one can inject into a beam. The issue with a railgun as mentioned is the heat generated, for them to become feasible requires the invention of some kind of cheaply disposable "rail" which can be replaced in between battles (anyone whos played the game "EV Nova" knows where im coming from).