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A space marine boltgun is .998 Cal., the human sized variant is .75 Cal. (Sources - 40k:Space Marine, Dark Heresy, Black Crusade, Inquisitor)

I definately remember in either Gunheads or Gaunts Ghosts, a Leman Russ battle cannon is described as 120mm.

Demolisher cannon would probably be a 165mm short tube demolition gun.

The Baneblade cannon has the feel of a 12-16 inch naval cannon, IMO.

Comparing a lascannon to the Boeing airborne laser system is a very bad matchup, the Boeing laser is designed to shoot down ICBMs and other missiles by heating the warhead/guidance to failure. A lascannon punches through its target in an instant, it would have orders of magnitude more power than any laser currently in existence. Even a lasgun is far more advanced than current laser technology, with a comparitive energy release of a .50 Cal., being able to remove limbs with ease.

Autogun = .30 Cal. M16
Heavy stubber = .50 Cal. M2
Autocannon = 57mm
Assault Cannon = 20-30mm Gatling
Earthshaker Artillery = 155mm

Space marine armor is a ceramic-metallic composite, judging from the more "realistic" artwork the pauldrons would be almost 3 inches thick......which even if plain steel would be more than enough to stop anything below 57mm. The other plates seem roughly 1 inch thick, enough to stop 20mm and below easily.

Guard armor is essentially thin sheets of ceramite (space marine armor) formed into shape. Enough to stop small arms fire cold, but nothing more.

No, the space marine Boltgun is .75 caliber as well, it is the gun itself that is larger. A space marine Heavy bolter is 100 Cal, however.

GalacticDefender wrote:No, the space marine Boltgun is .75 caliber as well, it is the gun itself that is larger. A space marine Heavy bolter is 100 Cal, however.

1.00 caliber. 100 caliber is... God, I can't think of it off the top of my head, don't wanna bother with the math right now. Big, though, huge. 100-inches. The largest naval cannon in WWII was 18. 100-caliber is nova-cannon big.

TermiesInARaider wrote:

GalacticDefender wrote:No, the space marine Boltgun is .75 caliber as well, it is the gun itself that is larger. A space marine Heavy bolter is 100 Cal, however.

1.00 caliber. 100 caliber is... God, I can't think of it off the top of my head, don't wanna bother with the math right now. Big, though, huge. 100-inches. The largest naval cannon in WWII was 18. 100-caliber is nova-cannon big.

I meant 1.00 Cal. As in one inch. That is still HUGE for a bullet though.

GalacticDefender wrote:

TermiesInARaider wrote:

GalacticDefender wrote:No, the space marine Boltgun is .75 caliber as well, it is the gun itself that is larger. A space marine Heavy bolter is 100 Cal, however.

1.00 caliber. 100 caliber is... God, I can't think of it off the top of my head, don't wanna bother with the math right now. Big, though, huge. 100-inches. The largest naval cannon in WWII was 18. 100-caliber is nova-cannon big.

I meant 1.00 Cal. As in one inch. That is still HUGE for a bullet though.

Oh, definitely. Around... 23mm, I think? I'm pretty sure there's a Soviet autocannon in 23mm. Either way, fething big.

TermiesInARaider wrote:Oh, definitely. Around... 23mm, I think? I'm pretty sure there's a Soviet autocannon in 23mm. Either way, fething big.

Close enough! 23mm is calibre 0.90.

Pictured: the Soviet cal .90 KS-23 shotgun with shells ...
Its barrel is actually made from a 23mm AA gun. Or rather, barrels that were intended for it, but rejected due to minor production flaws.

[edit] And yes, that "998" was a model number. There is also a "model 482" bolter (see upper left corner).
I've seen non-studio sources claim some pretty silly things about boltguns, but so far I am unaware of any one having raised their calibre yet. Who knows, tho.

Grey Templar wrote:From the various descriptions, I think Las weapons may actually be some sort of Partical projector that simply uses a Laser in its operation. It would explain why the weapon fires a shot instead of being a continious beam.

That's one possibility. One person I knew always suggested that lasguns were actually scaled down lance weapons (based on the old Andy Chambers idea of how lances worked, which was a glorified particle beam weapon or hybrid laser/particle beam weapon, depending on how you interpreted it.)

So it has a laser as part of it, but its not quite that simple.

Well we could just ignore the 'laser' part. Maybe in the 40th millenium it is taken to mean 'raygun'

It takes a bit of handwavium to work, but at least 40k keeps things vague enough so that we don't break reality unlike other sci-fis that seem to enjoy open violation of the laws of physics(and try to explain it away with some rediclous made up junk)

Eh. Matter of opinion I guess. 40K isn't any better or worse than any stuff I've seen or dealt with. The main difference I suspect is that they aren't shy to admit there's magic involved.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

TermiesInARaider wrote:I remember reading a bit of fluff (I can't, for the life of me, recall where), in which a standard IG lasrifle on its standard power setting, could sever the arm of an unarmored human. In terms of modern weaponry, that's equatable to a NATO 12.7x99mm/.50 BMG round.

I don't think you need AMR grade firepower to blow off someone's arm (or even blow apart their head.) Modern weapons can easily do that here, here or here At most you'd need the equivalent of a full powered rifle catrridge. The big issue is shattering/severing the bone the arm is attached to (bone being tougher than flesh or muscle.) and if you do it as razor5647 said you wouldn't need much energy. would also permit extensive bleeding, which only helps to kill the target (unless its mechanical or a Necron, and fast healers like Space Marines and Tyranids would probably not suffer as much.) Example described here


Automatically Appended Next Post:

CalgarsPimpHand wrote: - Ultra short pulse lasers, which don't directly burn through a target but destroy the target layer by layer by stripping off molecules, cutting through materials with little heat and lower power requirements. They also apparently can be used to create "laser induced plasma detonation" on a target or in the air near a target. All this stuff is very small scale, but scaling those up might somehow produce viable weapons. They wouldn't shoot a visible "beam" or a slow-moving "bolt" of light, but the impact on the target might look and feel like a kinetic weapon punching through, so it could be a plausible explanation.

That's pretty much the hard-scifi view of how a hypothetical laser weapon would work, at least going by this guy. Between that and the atomic rockets site there's some good data on how a hypothetical 'real life' laser weapon might work, assuming the assumptions held out (and as far as I know from my own admittedly scanty research, it would. Medical laser research has gone along similar lines - pulsed lasers to explode rathre than burn.)

If I recall correctly, Heavy Bolter rounds are the size of your average human fist.

No, thats Vulkan Mega-bolters.

HBs are 1" in diameter.

TermiesInARaider wrote:So I've been bouncing around the 40k wiki, and something just occured to me. Aside from the bolter, which is apparently of .998 caliber ( ), little is said about the technical specifications of the weapons of the Imperium, or the 40k world in general. I can understand that, for most of us, this means little, but for a guy who understands and very much enjoys a little technicality, this can be frustrating.

To get this ball rolling, I'll make a quick assesment of the Imperial Autocannon. Based on it's relative size in pictures and drawings, and the ammunition capacity of the Predators that carry it, I'd be willing to wager it's somewhere in the 40-57mm range. For those who don't understand, a shell of 30mm in diameter, with a proper tungsten carbide or DU penetrator and a high rate of fire, is a reliable AT weapon against modern MBTs (T-90, M1 Abrams, Merkavah Mk. IV, Leclerc, ect.). So 40mm or 57mm, the two most common calibers in that range, are FETHING BIG.

the Bolters are about a 35mm Explosive Rocket , Autocannons are about a 45-50 mm like you said Considerabley now days 45-50mm cannons can only take on modern MBTS depending on their ammunition == GAU-25 on the A-10 warthog fires 30mmShells that are the size of Wine bottles it can fire either HE ( high explosive ) or High Velocity ( hits the tank , creates a vacum and in all odds pulls the crew out though a tiny hole via preassure ) Size of the Round dosn't really matter , it's the velocity

Grey Templar wrote:No, thats Vulkan Mega-bolters.

HBs are 1" in diameter.

True, but the cartridge is probably 5-6" long so The Crusader doesn't seem too far off in that dimension. It would also certainly leave a fist-sized hole in most things

DoW

The Crusader wrote:If I recall correctly, Heavy Bolter rounds are the size of your average human fist.

I've read that, too, though I cannot exactly recal where.

Either way, I would say that "size" in this context means length - not diameter (as that one is 1 inch). Basically, a little like this, though the rounds don't seem to be scaled too well. Then again ... Heroscale.

Lynata wrote:

The Crusader wrote:If I recall correctly, Heavy Bolter rounds are the size of your average human fist.

I've read that, too, though I cannot exactly recal where.

Either way, I would say that "size" in this context means length - not diameter (as that one is 1 inch). Basically, a little like this, though the rounds don't seem to be scaled too well. Then again ... Heroscale.

They look like slightly bigger versions of these:

Which are .950 JDJ. They're almost 1" calibre but a bit stubbier than the 20mm casing they're constructed from. Makes sense that Heavy Bolters would have a larger casing, however, what with the whole 'rocket powered' and 'explosive penetrator' aspects.

Harker is a beast, regardless. To even hold that weapon is a feat in and of itself. S4 in action!

DoW

Kasrkin229 wrote:The Bolters are about a 35mm Explosive Rocket , Autocannons are about a 45-50 mm like you said Considerabley now days 45-50mm cannons can only take on modern MBTS depending on their ammunition == GAU-25 on the A-10 warthog fires 30mmShells that are the size of Wine bottles it can fire either HE ( high explosive ) or High Velocity ( hits the tank , creates a vacum and in all odds pulls the crew out though a tiny hole via preassure ) Size of the Round dosn't really matter , it's the velocity

Autocannons would be around a 30mm, they can't take on full size MBT's in 40k, they shouldn't be compared to something that can in real life. Autocannons are mainly designed for anti-heavy infantry and light vehicles, which would make the GAU-8 a better comparison.

DogOfWar wrote:Harker is a beast, regardless. To even hold that weapon is a feat in and of itself. S4 in action!

Heavy bolters are quite unwieldy, and I assume rather heavy. I certainly wouldn't want to carry one of those.
Although, isn't it true that a lot of heavy weapon teams will have one guy haul one of these monsters around? Not every regiment has them propped on wheels. Harker's specialty doesn't so much seem to be carrying a HB, but rather carrying a HB and its ammunition, and still being more mobile than a two-man-team doing the same (apparently not requiring to set it up on a bipod/tripod).

Just something that I guess a lot of people forget when discussing heavy bolters / Harker!

Lynata wrote:Harker's specialty doesn't so much seem to be carrying a HB, but rather carrying a HB and its ammunition, and still being more mobile than a two-man-team doing the same (apparently not requiring to set it up on a bipod/tripod).

Oh agreed.

The fact that he's not only carrying it by himself, but that he's able to walk-fire the damn thing is incredible. Consider the M2 Browning, a somewhat comparable heavy machine gun:

Weapon - 84lbs
100 rounds - 35lbs
Energy output per shot - 10,000-15,000 ft/lbs

And that's a .50 calibre weapon... Half the diameter of a Heavy Bolter round! Granted it has a greater RoF, and the HB's weight would help to offset the recoil, but still. What's more, 8 foot tall, Power Armoured, super soldiers still can't move and fire Heavy Bolters!

Chuck Norris checks his closet for Gunnery Sergeant Harker...

DoW

Considering how bolt weapon mechanics were described in the 2E wargear book (and keeping the gun's extreme weight in mind), recoil likely isn't much of an issue, if one were to go by GW's writings - unless it's off-set by the weapon's sheer rate of fire and it just becomes a matter of accuracy, I guess? Spray-n-pray is good for suppressive fire, but not for actually hitting things.

Of course in Necromunda heavies could get the skill to allow you to move and fire with a Heavy wepaon such as a heavy bolter - Bulging bcieps IIRC?

There is also the guy in the Last Chancers?

but yeah almost every IG unit depicted uses two man teams - usually with wheels/tracks etc

A lasgun is a little stronger than modern assault rifles, which would probably give it the punching power of a battle rifle.
strength 3

A bolter fires a 75 Cal round that explodes, and this is the difference between strength 3 to 4
strength 4

From lasgun to bolter we can see the giant leap between just one strength, so from that alone we can get a pretty good idea about how powerful the rest of the warhamer weapons are.

pulse rifle
Strength 5

A heavy bolter fires FIST sized rounds that explode
strength 6

auto cannon
strength 7

etc etc

Blobpie wrote:A bolter fires a 75 Cal round that explodes, and this is the difference between strength 3 to 4
strength 4

A heavy bolter fires FIST sized rounds that explode
strength 6

Bolters are .75 calibre (as in 3/4 of an inch).

Heavy Bolters are S5 and it's already been addressed that the rounds are most likely similar to the .950 JDJ (a shortened/widened version of the 20x102mm) which are 1 inch in diameter and approximately 5" long. Do you have a source for the 'fist' sized reference?

DoW

Mr Morden wrote:Of course in Necromunda heavies could get the skill to allow you to move and fire with a Heavy wepaon such as a heavy bolter - Bulging bcieps IIRC?

Uhh, totally forgot about Necromunda! Right on.
It's possible to do so in GW's Inquisitor RPG as well, unless I've misread its rules just now. Resting a weapon is optional, but doing so nets you an accuracy modifier ... which is quite handy, since if your strength score is below the weapon's weight you take a huge penalty. And heavy bolters are ... heavy.

DogOfWar wrote:Do you have a source for the 'fist' sized reference?

He's referring to the IG Codex. But as has been pointed out before, this likely refers to the projectile's length, not its diameter.
Not a contradiction, if you consider that a fist can be 5 inches wide.

DogOfWar wrote:

Blobpie wrote:A bolter fires a 75 Cal round that explodes, and this is the difference between strength 3 to 4
strength 4

A heavy bolter fires FIST sized rounds that explode
strength 6

Bolters are .75 calibre (as in 3/4 of an inch).

Heavy Bolters are S5 and it's already been addressed that the rounds are most likely similar to the .950 JDJ (a shortened/widened version of the 20x102mm) which are 1 inch in diameter and approximately 5" long. Do you have a source for the 'fist' sized reference?

DoW

The vanilla marine codex says the heavy bolter fires fist sized bolts

Lynata wrote:

Mr Morden wrote:Of course in Necromunda heavies could get the skill to allow you to move and fire with a Heavy wepaon such as a heavy bolter - Bulging bcieps IIRC?

Uhh, totally forgot about Necromunda! Right on.
It's possible to do so in GW's Inquisitor RPG as well, unless I've misread its rules just now. Resting a weapon is optional, but doing so nets you an accuracy modifier ... which is quite handy, since if your strength score is below the weapon's weight you take a huge penalty. And heavy bolters are ... heavy.

Yeah and IIRC it also carried on into Dark Heresy (etc) as well with pretty much the same effect.

Depending on the edition of 40k you are sourcing suspensors are also an option as they vary in rarety

Blobpie wrote:

DogOfWar wrote:

Blobpie wrote:A bolter fires a 75 Cal round that explodes, and this is the difference between strength 3 to 4
strength 4

A heavy bolter fires FIST sized rounds that explode
strength 6

Bolters are .75 calibre (as in 3/4 of an inch).

Heavy Bolters are S5 and it's already been addressed that the rounds are most likely similar to the .950 JDJ (a shortened/widened version of the 20x102mm) which are 1 inch in diameter and approximately 5" long. Do you have a source for the 'fist' sized reference?

DoW

The vanilla marine codex says the heavy bolter fires fist sized bolts

Must be talking about baby fists, they are the only ones 1" thick. Is that what you meant?

DoW

Mr Morden wrote:Yeah and IIRC it also carried on into Dark Heresy (etc) as well with pretty much the same effect.

Though DH then went on to introduce an artificial difference between "civilian" and Astartes bolters, yeah...

DogOfWar wrote:Must be talking about baby fists, they are the only ones 1" thick. Is that what you meant?

Since there seems to be some confusion regarding this bit and my previous posts apparently did not suffice to explain, I've went and drawn y'all a picture.

Lynata wrote:

Mr Morden wrote:Yeah and IIRC it also carried on into Dark Heresy (etc) as well with pretty much the same effect.

Though DH then went on to introduce an artificial difference between "civilian" and Astartes bolters, yeah...

DogOfWar wrote:Must be talking about baby fists, they are the only ones 1" thick. Is that what you meant?

Since there seems to be some confusion regarding this bit and my previous posts apparently did not suffice to explain, I've went and drawn y'all a picture.

Yeah, because if someone said "There's a fist sized lump of gold in that river!" I'll imagine something 1" thick and 4" long.

Or, perhaps I might imagine something the size of a fist? What do you think?

Whoever said they shoot fist sized bolts in the SM codex obviously didn't know what they were talking about or were misinformed. Simple as that.

DoW

Well, if you want to take it that literally, a fist-sized bolt shell would have to be round, not elongated like what we see on the miniatures.

I'd agree it was maybe a poor choice of words, but personally, I've never interpreted it any other way than meaning "the projectile is as long as a fist". I might have come to the other conclusion if I didn't know a heavy bolter shell's shape or calibre.

Lynata wrote:

Mr Morden wrote:Yeah and IIRC it also carried on into Dark Heresy (etc) as well with pretty much the same effect.

Though DH then went on to introduce an artificial difference between "civilian" and Astartes bolters, yeah...

Agreed - whilst I would agree that Astartes weapons are physically larger - bolt guns were always bolt guns - although like any other firearm I guess the different makes and models have their own advantages and disadvantages =- bit like comparing a AK47, M16, an Uzi adn HK MP5

Lynata wrote:Well, if you want to take it that literally, a fist-sized bolt shell would have to be round, not elongated like what we see on the miniatures.

I'd agree it was maybe a poor choice of words, but personally, I've never interpreted it any other way than meaning "the projectile is as long as a fist". I might have come to the other conclusion if I didn't know a heavy bolter shell's shape or calibre.

OOooookay. I'll give you that. You make a valid argument.

I'll admit that it does sound cool, though, almost like Marines are punching you with their guns! HURR!

DoW

DogOfWar wrote:

Lynata wrote:Harker's specialty doesn't so much seem to be carrying a HB, but rather carrying a HB and its ammunition, and still being more mobile than a two-man-team doing the same (apparently not requiring to set it up on a bipod/tripod).

Oh agreed.

The fact that he's not only carrying it by himself, but that he's able to walk-fire the damn thing is incredible. Consider the M2 Browning, a somewhat comparable heavy machine gun:

Weapon - 84lbs
100 rounds - 35lbs
Energy output per shot - 10,000-15,000 ft/lbs

And that's a .50 calibre weapon... Half the diameter of a Heavy Bolter round! Granted it has a greater RoF, and the HB's weight would help to offset the recoil, but still. What's more, 8 foot tall, Power Armoured, super soldiers still can't move and fire Heavy Bolters!

Chuck Norris checks his closet for Gunnery Sergeant Harker...

DoW

The Browning doesn't usually have the option for integral gravity-nullifying suspensors

Also Marines probably can move and fire the thing in "real life" mode, however within the confines of the game turn the need to reload, stabilize and brace the thing properly while firing means that their movement is limited. Game rules and simplification =/= "real life".