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I know it isn't out for a while, but I would really like to know what you guys would like in the new CSM Codex?

For me:

HQ
Abaddon: Justaerin - Terminators as Troop Choices, any Cult Elites choices (not Cult Terminators) can be taken as troops choices.
Lords with Marks can take their respective Cult units (not Cult Terminators) as troops choices.

Elites
Possessed: No randomness to their powers.
Cult Terminators.
Cult Marines: Can only be taken as Elites, unless a Lord with the same Mark is taken.
Chosen: Can also make Chosen Raptors and Bikers.

Troops
CSM Squads.
Heretics: Guard type infantry. The equivalent of IG Veterans.

Fast Attack
Raptors: I would like to see Descent of Daemons. They've been doing this sort of thing for 10,000 years, they should be good at it by now.
Bikers: I don't know how you can make these guys good. They never ever have been.

Heavy Support
Land Raider: A new variant would be nice.
Flyer: Some sort of Bomber.
Obliterators: Marks that give them access to different weapons and Obliterator types.

Dedicated Transports
Dreadclaw Drop Pods.
Rhino.

Specific Legion Rules:

Emperor's Children - All units must have the Mark of Slaanesh. Noise Marines are Troops, Cult Terminators, Dreadnoughts and vehicles with Noise Marine Weapon options.

Iron Warriors - Tank Hunters, Chosen Havocs.

Night Lords - Stealth, Raptors as Troops.

World Eaters - All units must have the Mark of Khorne. Berzerkers are Troops, Cult Terminators, Dreadnoughts with Furious Charge. Berzerkers and Cult Terminators with Rending Close Combat Weapons (Khornate Chain Axes).

Death Guard - All units must have the Mark of Nurgle. Plague Marines are Troops, Cult Termintors. Dreadnoughts and vehicles have extra point of armour up to 14. Plague Marine Weapons are poisoned.

Thousand Sons - All units must have the Mark of Tzeentch. Rubric Marines are Troops, Cult Terminators, Dreadnoughts and vehicles with Inferno Bolt Ammo (Just like Psybolt Ammo).

Black Legion - No additional options... They are the basic army that you can make.

Word Bearers - Can have Possessed as Troops and cheaper Daemonic Possession on Vehicles.

Alpha Legion - CSM, Heretics and Chosen can all outflank.

Just some ideas that I had bouncing around.

So what do you guys want?

Lower bike cost. Right now they're way too expensive, but I have a friend who ikea to take 3 with 2 meltas on them. He usually turbo-boosts towards my vehicles and they always draw a decent amount of fire. Still, a very expensive diversion. Maybe if they were cheaper they would be more viable as an actual unit.

Give them attack bikes. It can't be that hard for a Chaos marine to look at a multi-melta, look at a bike, look at a multi-melta, look at a bike, then think "AHA! If I put a few bolts in there to add a second seat for my mate, he can shoot a few tanks while I'm rolling on my hog."

Freman Bloodglaive wrote:Give them attack bikes. It can't be that hard for a Chaos marine to look at a multi-melta, look at a bike, look at a multi-melta, look at a bike, then think "AHA! If I put a few bolts in there to add a second seat for my mate, he can shoot a few tanks while I'm rolling on my hog."

Here's a better idea. No attack bikes

Daemon Bikers, bikes that have been forcefully possessed by Daemonspirits that have been forced into there by the Dark Mechanicus, ridden by badass legion riders who are forcefully keeping it in control, and using it to devour others.

Rather not have anymore stuff taken from the standard Marine dex's, I don't want 4th edition spiky marines again.

What I want:
- Obliterators to not get nerfed.
- Thousand sons shots AP3+++*. Ignore any type of save 3+. (IE: Terminators can take their 2+ armor save, but a necron Wraith can not take his 3+ invuln)
- Flying mechanical dragon (that everyone hates on, but I think will be cool)
-

Puscifer wrote:.
Heretics: Guard type infantry. The equivalent of IG Veterans.

I'd sort of prefer GEQ maybe even conscript level for cultists, but make them synergise with summoned daemons. So they can take Icons to help with deep strike, or use the champion to summon a GD. Should have laspistol/ccw, then you can take 10-30 and put out loads of attacks, just not very good ones. Don't think BS4 is very fluffy for cultists, they aren't marines or vets.

God specific daemons/GD should come back. Only troops from codex:daemons though.
Good level of customisation for Daemon Princes/Lords would be nice too.

All Thousand Sons need is a change to the cover rules.

If cover is a to hit modifier like fantasy Thousand Sons can get cover plus their invulnerable save vs AP 3/2. Then they can fire back hitting on 4's and ignoring saves on most models.


Incidently I'd like to see Thousand Sons terminators with 3+ invulnerable saves and a summoned Lord of Change. If the Imperium has 3+ invulnerable saves everywhere it seems reasonable Chaos should get their own chaosy version.

- Cult Terminators yes please!
- At least marked daemons, I can see that they will not copy things from Codex: Chaos Daemons but some sort of customization would be welcome
- Some sort of combat drugs for the noise marines and/or a wider array of sound-weapons. At the moment they are just CSM +1I. The other cult-units are fine if their price will be adjusted.
- A new daemon-engine. The defiler is awesome but there is so much potential for more
- Erebus!

Typhus (and i suppose other SCs as well) get Eternal warrior without bumping his cost.

Points adjustments for existing units to 5th or 6th ed. Levels.

Rules for legions and or cult armies, and penalties for mixing gods in a single force (unless there is an upgrade for some HQ or another to negate that)..simply put the big 4 chaos gods do not play well together.

Cultists...as someone mentioned, using them for icons etc. I personally think itd be cool to have a reserve modifier on them, ie you can sacrifice X cultists on turn 1 to bring greater daemon in. Turn 2+ sacrifice X cultists by the difference reserve roll failed by (for example, if i need a 4, but roll a 2, i can kill off 2 cultists to bring the GD into that squad's champ)

I'd also change the generic daemon entries to allow 'real' damons to come in.... ie take a greater damon, but if i take MoN on him, it turns him into a GUO, with requisite rules, same for MoK, only he's a bloodthirster, etc)

Oh and I should mention the most glaring deficiency in the book to me.

Tzeentch needs some sort of psychic defence, preferably based on causing enemy psykers to perils. Back in the 3.5 book Tzeentch Sorceror Lords could force all enemy psykers on the battlefield to take psychic tests at -2 leadership and if they tried a power within 12" on a 4+ it failed and they suffered an immediate perils attack.

On that note, Tzeentch psykers need either better powers or automatic passing of psychic tests to justify their points cost. I would like some way to defeat psychic hoods as well but that's really wishing.

-Nifty psyker powers and mechanics. I mean, we are talking -Sorcerers- here, people: librarians who traded away their honor and sanity for a level of power their peers could not dream about. That CSM has utterly lame psyker abilities is bad design and bad fluff-TT integration.

-Better Special Characters. They need to either improve/change the army more or be more durable beatsticks.

-Revised pricing for troops. Now that force-weapon, storm bolter ATSKNF psykers are 20 pts a pop, Noise marines with a fancier bolter costing 20% more than that are an insult. Ditto for lots of other stuff.

A Night Lords special character - Acerbus - A NL Daemon Prince, Zso Sahaal - Allows Raptors as troops, or, from Void Stalker,

Just my thoughts

I'd rather give Alpha legion infiltrate rather than just outflank and have a special character who allows D3 units that don't have the infiltrate rule to infiltrate

Iron Warriors I'd like to see an Obliterator-like HQ or Special Character... and just to be a dick, Venerable Land Raiders

For Thousand Sons/Tzeentzch warbands Aspiring Champions can be upgraded to Aspiring Sorcerers (in the event you don't want to take/don't have the points to take rubric marines)

And Honestly, I don't see why some vehicles are stuck with certain loadouts, I'd imagine that with no AdMech breathing down their necks, Land Raiders and such would be pretty customizable to what ever the warband/legion found fitting, instead of being stuck with the lame old Schizophrenic LR.

I'd also like to see some of the old 3rd Edition(?) wargear make a comeback. And make the spells better, I mean how the hell do SM Librarians have so much better spells than those who actually serve the god of spells?!

Having the ability to field a genuine Blood Pact army w/ Pater Pain and Pater Sin, replete with the option of taking Black Legion Chaos Space Marines as Elites...

Anti psy power stuff
A dash of eternal warrior on my NAMED and CHOSEN BY A GOD guys

That's pretty much it. Don't remove any randomness, that's what makes chaos CHAOS.

They need to be able to make powerful assault armies again.

Berzerkers that can tangle with Purifiers, Terminators that can compete with TH\SS termies.

They need better psychic rules & a hood.

Units need to be recosted.

Possessed and dreads need to be fixed.

There is a lot more. Those are the big ones.

Spawn need to get fixed or get out

Sorcerers are supposed to be some of the strongest psykers in the galaxy. Make them a lot more powerfull but riskier.

At the very least, one special character per legion. At least one. And hopefully they will not rid out the idea of a warband. I have a feeling the new codex will be geared towards one or two legions being on the table at once. At least between 1500 - 2000 pts.

This is just my fear from some of the bullcrap rumours. I really like the idea of having an HQ then some raptors, then some Iron Warriors, then a few Word Bearers then a couple Alpha. Not that I do not like the Idea of having a massive NL army or WE army, ect. Just dont want the warband concept to vanish.

Plasma Cannons on Land Raiders, Infernal Engine returns, mono-God builds being viable, Lost and The Damned lists, Cult Terminators or a version that can stand up to Paladins (Anti-Paladins!?)

Puscifer wrote:A better Chaos Marine army list than we will get.

Pretty much this, though thematically heretics/cultists in a Chaos Marine list should be cannon fodder, so I'd push them down to Guardsman/Whiteshield profiles and cost. Otherwise spot on, however.

Also, better sorcerers with psychic hoods, and decent options for non-Noise Marine Slaneesh-worshippers and non-Rubric Tzeentch-worshippers, and for Chaos Spawn which aren't useless.

Mr. Balloon Hands wrote:This is just my fear from some of the bullcrap rumours. I really like the idea of having an HQ then some raptors, then some Iron Warriors, then a few Word Bearers then a couple Alpha. Not that I do not like the Idea of having a massive NL army or WE army, ect. Just dont want the warband concept to vanish.

This is sorta what I was talking about in my post above... IMO there should be a penalty in playability to run a list that includes say, Khorne Berzerkers, and Rubric Marines in the same army... UNLESS you take a named SC (or there could be something to do with a Mark on the generic Termie lord or something)

This is a very nice list of stuff taht Games Workshop should, but probably never will do.

I want thousand sons so bad...with cult terminators for them. then my dreams would come true

I am an old hand and I deeply dislike the mixing of chaos powers. I grew up with the opposite chaos gods and the imposibility of say Slaanesh and Khorne units fighting together. Not sure Chaos undivided makes any sense either tbh.

Anyhow I digress, I would like to see viable one power armies. Broaden the units out to make it possible to field a Nurgle only force say. For me this has more character than a bunch of mixed chaos units thrown together. I know others will disagree so make sure it is broad enough to allow whatever interpretation of chaos each person likes.

Also let's have some cannon-fodder cheap grunts, but not a full IG clone set of traitor guard. CSM with IG tanks and artillery wold be gross in the extreme!

Isengard wrote:
Also let's have some cannon-fodder cheap grunts, but not a full IG clone set of traitor guard. CSM with IG tanks and artillery wold be gross in the extreme!

Grossly AWESOME you mean!... Daemonic possession Leman Russ... yes please

I actually currently run a Typhus led, pure Nurgle army... while it may not be optimal by any stretch, its still fun to play, so I agree with you on that front, and hope that they make monotheistic Chaos armies completely viable with a new book.

Ensis Ferrae wrote:

Mr. Balloon Hands wrote:This is just my fear from some of the bullcrap rumours. I really like the idea of having an HQ then some raptors, then some Iron Warriors, then a few Word Bearers then a couple Alpha. Not that I do not like the Idea of having a massive NL army or WE army, ect. Just dont want the warband concept to vanish.

This is sorta what I was talking about in my post above... IMO there should be a penalty in playability to run a list that includes say, Khorne Berzerkers, and Rubric Marines in the same army... UNLESS you take a named SC (or there could be something to do with a Mark on the generic Termie lord or something)

Like the Orc Animosity rules in fantasy? Where they have a chance of beating the crap out of each other nearby.

I'd love to see Chaos Varients of LR's, A Tzeentch Crusader style and Nurgle Redeemer one maybe, and maybe an extra assault one for Khorne (Extra capacity, neat grenades etc)

ZebioLizard2 wrote:
Like the Orc Animosity rules in fantasy? Where they have a chance of beating the crap out of each other nearby.

maybe not that far... perhaps a "if army includes any unit with Mark X, then you can take 0-1 units with another mark"


A Nurgle "plague tank" (like the apocalypse plaguereaper) would be fantastic... though, tbh it would have to work differently from the Redeemer, maybe added range or something as no one takes the redeemer right now (well, not too many people do)

Cultists
WS2 BS2 S3 T3 W1 I3 A1 Ld6 Sv6+ 4 Pts
Squad size, 5-50
Equipment, lasgun/autogun, can replace with las/auto pistol and close combat weapon for +1 point.
1 in 5 can take flamer +10, meltagun +10, plasma gun +10
Can take a Chaos Space Marine Leader for +20 points
WS4 BS4 S4 T4 W1 I4 A2 Ld10
Equipment, bolter, bolt pistol, close combat weapon, frag and krak grenades (standard equipment for all Chaos Marines including characters and Chosen)
Special Rule: Stubborn which is passed on to the squad (I think all Chaos Marines should get this to avoid being run down all the time)
Can replace bolter with combi-weapon for +5 points
Can replace bolt pistol and/or close combat weapon with plasma pistol, power weapon, or lightning claw +10 points or power fist +20 points.
Can take meltabombs for +5 points.