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Ok, i have a game next week against the local TFG at my gaming group. he always plays Blood Angels and always has to bring the newest shinest toys (this isn't what makes him TFG though). And is extremely condescending to his opponents (who tend towards the younger age brackets) so i REALLY want to smack him around if at all possible.

He quickly showed me the list he is going to bring (can't remember all the exact details)..we are playing a 2000 point game (the list below does not include any options and i'm not sure of the unit price as i dont have a BA codex)


10 Death Company
10 Tactical Marines
10 Tactical marines

1 Libby Dread
1 Furioso Dread
1 Furioso Dread

1 Storm Raven
1 Strom Raven
1 Storm Raven


i think he based it off an apoc formation he saw. There might be another HQ choice in there aas well, i'm not 100% sure.



here id the list i was thinking of fielding, any help woudl be much appreciated.



Imhotekh
OverLord - CCB, MSS, Weave, Scythe

Lord - Scythe, Res orb
DestrucTek - Pulse, Lance
DestrucTek - Pulse, Lance
StormTek - Staff, Lightning Field

5 Warriors - Ghost Ark (with both PulseTeks)
5 Warriors
20 Warriors (with StormTek and Imhotekh)
10 Immortals - tesla (with Lord)

10 Scarabs
9 Scarabs
4 Destroyers (2 heavy)

Anni Barge
Anni Barge

I dont know BA that well but I assume all those units will be riding in the ravens and rushing you in which case you probably need more anti-tank.
Your main problem is that you have Imotekh in a shooty army, he will lose you games.

i thought the nightfighting and lightning might be handy maybe i shoudl take Anrakry instead and shoot him with his own Stormraven!

if i replace Ihotek with Anrakyr in a CCB, give my other OverLord Phaeron and put him with the arrior blob, that gives me an extra 45 points to play with.......MSS for the foot lord?

I like Anrakyr better in this list - you want two command barges so you can sweep down his rides. I would probably run these units:

Lord w/ Weave, Scythe, Phase Shifter (so he can punch dreads), MSS
Command Barge

Trazyn - this I think is worth hopping out of a barge to take over a Raven and then unload all of its BloodStrikes, Meltas, etc into another Raven
Command Barge

Court
-I would take 2 Tremor Teks here and 4 (two in each) Destruteks
-Also the Lord w/ MSS paired with the Lightning Field tek w/ the Immortals seems pretty good.

Add in a unit of 6 Wraiths to eat the units as the pop out and leave the two Annihilation Barges but maybe add 2 or 3 Spyders.

My experience with Necrons is limited, but all you need to do is knock down two of the Ravens and you have this basically won.

I only have 3 barges but i could field them as 2 CCBs and 1 Anni barge.

Also dont have Wraiths (shooty army) and only have 3 models i can use for Crypteks.

I'd say there's 2 ways to beat that list. Either wait for him to charge you, weather the storm, and then kill his units in CC, or shoot down his 3 AV 12 Vehicles Turn 1, and then deal with what pops out.

Way 1, you have no chance. None of your units can stand up to your opponent's list in CC. Scarabs stand no chance against Bloodtalon dreads. With 3 Dreads and 1 Death Company squad, he should be able to tie up the majority of your shooting.

Way 2 . . . well Imhotekh will shut down your long-range shooting. He's of no use in this fight. LanceTeks are range 24", and too slow to get into range. The CCB won't really help either, since you can only hit out to 24". That leaves you 2 Heavy Destroyers and 2 Annihilation Barges, which I doubt can stop 3 Stormravens before they get around to killing you. If you think you can kill all 3 stormravens before your opponent can use his assault ramps to disgorge those dreads into your very vulnerable infantry, you might stand a chance. If he gets off the charges he wants, you're done for.

I'd suggest going a lot lighter on the weak infantry units. Drop Imhotek and the Pulses. Scarabs won't help you either. Take enough firepower to take out those three stormravens quickly. That firepower should also be able to then kill those dreads as well. Otherwise, take Wraiths and laugh when your opponent's elite assault troops get eaten.

Praxiss wrote:i thought the nightfighting and lightning might be handy maybe i shoudl take Anrakry instead and shoot him with his own Stormraven!

if i replace Ihotek with Anrakyr in a CCB, give my other OverLord Phaeron and put him with the arrior blob, that gives me an extra 45 points to play with.......MSS for the foot lord?

I would swap Imotekh for a phaeron and keep your barge lord.
Make the destroyers a unit of 3 heavys.
Swap a unit of scarabs for a stalker.
Add another 2 Lance teks to the other warrior unit.
Swap the lord in the Tesla Imms for a Veil-tek.

This should give you a more solid list with better anti tank without changing your army too much.


List tayloring probably makes you TFG but if you just want to beat him I would take 2 CCB lords with WS, MSS, SW+ PS and two Lance courts (4 lance-teks + 1 Crono-tek).

LanceTeks are range 24", and too slow to get into range. The CCB won't really help either, since you can only hit out to 24".

This is all kinds of wrong. Lance teks are 36" range and a CCB is the most reliable thing we have too take out a fast moving Storm Raven.

The dreads and the death company are your biggest problems followed by the SR's. I'd load up on lance teks. Maybe take one pulse just in case it's a dawn of war deployment. How about a triarch walker with the TL heavy gauss cannon? Take 10 lanceteks and twin link the hec out of at least one unit. It does look like an SR rush so you need to take as many down turn one or at least stun them as possible. Got any wraiths? They'd be useful against the tac units. Everything else needs to be lanced from as far away as possible. What ever the dreads or death company touch will die. 10 lanceteks and a walker would probably go a long ways to slowing them up.

I can almost promise if he goes first all 3 Ravens will be on the board as close as possible. If he goes second he will reserve everything. Dawn of War is the worst possible deployment for you. He starts off the board and turbo Boost turn one. His vehicles now have a 4+ save, he is in your face, and he can still shoot one weapon. And since he will be so close Night Fighting will not hamper him that much. If you fail to destroy or immobilize the ravens, it is pretty much over for ya.

Agree that Imotekh is not appropriate. At all. This BA list is practically the anti-Imotekh setup, very few units so very few strike rolls, individually strong so each strike doesn't do much.

His BA Stormravens have PotMS, so they'll move flat-out and shoot. Get the 4+ cover save against ranged AT, get the 6+ CC attack to-hit, very difficult to bring down either way. Good side is they're expensive, you can afford to dedicate some counter-units. CCB's are the answer there, a sweep allows no cover saves, no CC to-hit, just trashes the stormchickens anytime they get within 24". How to get them within 24", or slow down from flat-out, or handle them if they stand off? Solar pulses are always good for range problems. I'm tempted to say a couple of tremorteks, they can force the Stormravens to make a difficult choice about moving flat-out. I'm also tempted to say scarabs, both for a slowed-down SR and dismounted dreads. But I need to look over the BA codex here and refresh myself on their special rules first.

If he goes first make sure you deploy as far away as possible...if he reserves everything then YAY! With any luck you'll be dealing with his army piece meal. Flat out the SRs can go 24" and get a 4+ cover save. That's bad. So you really need to unload on him and get an immobilized at a minimum. Hence, lot's of lanceteks and a stalker...they'll be very useful against the dreads and death company as well (laceteks take away the FNP). Lanceteks can move and shoot a full 36" which should help. Good luck!

Generally, tailoring your list makes you TFG. But, it seems this guy has got it coming, so it is okay.

I agree no Imotekh here. Also, don't mass warriors - they will just get beaten and swept. My list for you:

Anrakyr in CCB
Overlord with scythe, MSS, maybe weave, in CCB

court 1: 5 lanceteks
court 2: 5 lanceteks

5 warriors
5 warriors
5 warriors
5 warriors
5 warriors

as many wraiths as you can fit

as many annibarges as you can fit after the wraiths

If you don't have the models and cannot proxy, consider spyders instead of annibarges. Also, if you have pariahs, they are great for proxying lanceteks.

No point for pulseteks, because I bet all his shooting will be meltas on the birds. No point for chronotek as there is no imotekh.

The strategy is stay as far away as possible with the 5 warriors plus 2 lancetek squads and just shoot the birds, while the CCBs go and sweep. Sweep, jump out, control, then assault with Anrakyr. Once the birds are down, the CCBs can sweep the dreads. The lances deny FNP and can bust the dreads as well. The wraiths should double-team on one squad at a time. Also, remember that the coils work on dreads, so you strike first and can rend your way to penetration hits, while the return attacks have to pass through 3+ invulnerable. I'd kill the libby first, while gauss-glancing the other two into multiple damage results. Nothing is funnier than an immobilized furioso!

Good luck and let us know how it goes!

Ok, so you don't have wraiths and you have three barges. You have three crypteks you can use.

So, back to your original list. If you take Anrakyr, you get to upgrade the immortals to eternals, giving you furious charge and counter attack. That is a start.

But, you are definitely going to need an orb lord, and you need to find another war scythe for the second barge. Take gauss cannons on the barges, cos AP3 and don't forget to shoot them (assuming you are not running flat out).

So, I'd take Zahndrek and Obyron as well as Anrakyr.

Put Zahndrek in the Eternals, cos he has an orb. put the stormtek in here as well. Take a barge for Zahndrek, but put obyron in it T1. If you are going to disembark and assault something, use Obyron to do it because he can ghost walk out of combat.

Put the eternals in cover, then use Zahndrek to give them stealth as well. Make the other guy come to this unit. While he is doing that, see how many dreds and storm ravens, (whats the AV on these things?) you can take out with the anni barges, scarabs, lancetek. Use Zahndreks powers to remove USR from the opponent and give to your units - and Zahndrek does not have to be in line of sight to do that.

Remember that when your opponent hits the eternals, Obyron will automatically pile in from wherever he is. Don't forget about Obyron's cleaving counterblow. If you are getting slaughtered, use ghost walk mantle to leave the combat and make the opponent come to you again.

HQ
Zahndrek, Obyron, Barge (430)
Anrakyr with CCB (245)

Court 1 (140)
Lord, Warscythe, MSS, SW, Orb
Cryptek Storm, Lightning

Court2
Cryptek (lancetek, Pulse)
Cryptek, (Storm, Lightning)

Troop
10XImmortal (tesla) (170) (Eternal Upgrade free) (Zahndrek, Stormtek here)
Warriors x8 (104)(, Lancetek) Ghost Ark(115)
Warriors x 20 (260) (Lord, StormTek)

Fast Attack
Scarab X 10 (150)
Scarab x 9 (135)
Destroyers x 4 (2 Heavy) (200)

1974pts, so you can optimise some.

Not sure how far BA shoots, so lets assume T1 darkness for him. Zahndrek takes away Night Vision/Acute senses from 1 long range weapon of theirs. Blob advances centre board (being bait), Ghost ark behind, eternals follow. CCBs, Anni, destroyers scarabs split to flanks advance.

T2 Zahndrek gives the blob either counter attack or furious charge depending on what is likely to be in range. Hopefully, CCb/Destroyers still alive, ready for T2 shooting in day. Anrakyr uses MitM to shoot raven at another one. CCBs shoot at death company( if in range).

Pray the blob doesn't break in the first round of CC.

Key : a) use Zahndrek's powers every turn!! b) Be aggressive with Obyron in the barge because as soon as the eternals get in CC, he will go there. c) Use the blob as a tarpit. d)Make sure that the stormtek gets shots away. Maybe even take the smaller squad of warriors out of the ark - the stormtek and lancetek will provide some protection.


hth

Whats a TFG?

Tesla tends to be weak against FNP, do you think he'll be packing priests? Really CCB and maybe even doom scythes might be your best bet here. Come to think of it, warscythes will be serving you incredibly well. 2 lords in an ark with a bunch of warriors is a pretty tough close combat rock and will seriously mess a dread up or stunned vehicle.

Does he not have any Priests? If so, that makes this quite a bit easier.

If you don't need to worry about FNP, then load up on Destroyers. They will tear through his marines quite quickly. If you have to, feed him a Warrior squad.

Deck out your Overlords. This is one of the few times, I'd go and "Bling" them out. Phase Shifter, Weave, MSS, Scythe. As long as he doesn't get the charge, Your Overlords should be able to do some damage to his squads, and will mince his dreads with Sweeps.

A Few Lanceteks will go a long way in shutting down those Stormravens. You really want to eliminate them early on. Packing a Heavy Destroyer or two, into the destroyer squads can help pick up the duty, if you are light on Lanceteks.

Here is a list I came up with, that while not the best TAC list, it should do very well, against that list. I've also tried to accommodate the no wraiths, but I don't know if you have enough models for this list either. 2k on the dot.


1 Overlord, Warscythe; Mindshackle Scarabs; Sempiternal Weave; Phase Shifter
1 Catacomb Command Barge Gauss Cannon

1 Overlord, Warscythe; Mindshackle Scarabs; Sempiternal Weave; Phase Shifter
1 Catacomb Command Barge Gauss Cannon

5 Warriors

5 Warriors

5 Warriors

5 Warriors

1 Harbinger of Destruction ; Solar Pulse
1 Harbinger of Destruction
1 Harbinger of Destruction


1 Harbinger of Destruction Solar Pulse
1 Harbinger of Destruction
1 Harbinger of Destruction

5 Destroyers, Heavy Gauss Cannon x2

5 Destroyers, Heavy Gauss Cannon x2

10 Canoptek Scarabs,

3 Canoptek Spyder, Fabricator Claw Array x1; Gloom Prism x1

3 Canoptek Spyder, Fabricator Claw Array x1; Gloom Prism x1


You have everything to deal with his list, FNP or not. The Spyders are going to be used more so, for combat than scarab farming. They will tear through marines, and can be used to destroy a dread if something goes awry. The Command barges should be able to make quick work of the Storm Ravens/Dreads. Remember that sweep attacks ignore Cover saves, so he won't get his 4+ for flat out, and that it hits on the rear of the Dreadnoughts. The Overlords will also do pretty well in CC, if the BA don't get the charge, thanks to the 2+. The Phase shifter is included, because I don't know how many power attacks he has, and if he gets dethroned near the Dread.

Lances are for removing the Storm Ravens, hopefully, Turn 1. They should be able at the very least, to take out one. Concentrate on the one that has the Death Company first, then move on. The Extra warrior squad if for grabbing objectives, or feeding to him, to buy yourself a turn.

The Destroyers, Destroy.

like I said, not the best TAC list, but this list should oblitirate his, which is fairly weak to begin with. If you don't have the models for this, try to proxy, and we can discuss more about altering it, to fit your needs.

Bring a ton of big scarab swarms, it will be easy to surround the base of the stromraven in assault and when its wrecked, the passengers including the dread will be killed instantly.

Praxiss, I hope you realize you have to post the battle report when done.

I really hope I never have to face any of you guys with your tailored Necron lists. I'd be toast.

haroon wrote:Bring a ton of big scarab swarms, it will be easy to surround the base of the stromraven in assault and when its wrecked, the passengers including the dread will be killed instantly.

I hate those tactic's that's the kind of thing which makes you TFG as it just ruins peoples games, it's what i like to call 'The F@G' Tactic.

GoDz BuZzSaW wrote:

haroon wrote:Bring a ton of big scarab swarms, it will be easy to surround the base of the stromraven in assault and when its wrecked, the passengers including the dread will be killed instantly.

I hate those tactic's that's the kind of thing which makes you TFG as it just ruins peoples games, it's what i like to call 'The F@G' Tactic.

Ya, using the rules and your units to beat your opponent is such a d**k move!

GoDz BuZzSaW wrote:

haroon wrote:Bring a ton of big scarab swarms, it will be easy to surround the base of the stromraven in assault and when its wrecked, the passengers including the dread will be killed instantly.

I hate those tactic's that's the kind of thing which makes you TFG as it just ruins peoples games, it's what i like to call 'The F@G' Tactic.

That is hilarious coming from a guy who plays Grey knights with psyrifleman spam lol.

GoDz BuZzSaW wrote:
I hate those tactic's that's the kind of thing which makes you TFG as it just ruins peoples games, it's what i like to call 'The F@G' Tactic.

This occurring is the 40k equivalent to a Darwinian Event. If you are so silly that you let your Storm Raven filled with a Dread, a Squad and maybe an IC get surrounded by Scarabs and chewed to pieces - then you pretty much deserve what you got. If you continue to engage in this behavior without evolving, you are likely to become extinct...

At a GT I assaulted a GK player with a squad of 12 Seekers, glanced his SR to death and killed 10 Purifiers and a Grand Master. He should have never, ever let me attempt that assault and it was his own fault that half his army evaporated on Turn 2.

Above advice is good but i would like to say that if your opponent is as TFG as you say, he could very well have shown you a 'ringer' list in order to fake you out. The good news is the necron codex has stuff that's really good for most TAC games, regardless. Just be aware he might have been lying when he showed you the 3 raven list.

True. I feel a bit better now as i though for soem reason that Ravens wre AV14, when they are only AV12. That means an Anni Barge can Pen one....

So if i take 2 CCBS, 3 H.Destroyers, a shed load of gauss and an Anni Barge (as well as some scarabs) i shoudl be able to at least stun lock them pretty early on.


Also, while the scarabs will not kill a Furioso Dread at all, they might lower its armour enough that a volley from my troops has a chance to penetrate the armour.

i'll be taking Anrakyr as well i think so i have a chance to hit his own dread with a Ravens Multi-melta. Lolz!!!





Revised List:

Anrakyr - CCB
Overlord - CCB, MSS, Phase Shifter, Warscythe

Lord - MSS, Warscythe, Res Orb
DestrucTek - Pulse, Lance
DestrucTek - Pulse, Lance
StormTek - Lightning Field, Voltaic Staff

5 Warriors - Ghost Ark (with both PulseTeks)
10 Warriors
10 Warriors (with StormTek)
10 Warriors
10 Immortals - tesla (with Lord)

9 Scarabs
9 Scarabs
3 Heavy Destroyers

1 Anni Barge - Gauss Cannon

I'm slightly baffled as to why he would have Tac Squads in a BA list, as Assault Squads (and arguably even Scouts!) are a better troop choice in the codex.

It may be that you have misremembered his list, but if he really is taking Tacs, then there is a good chance that he isn't that good, and if he wins a lot, watch him like a hawk for rules 'shenanigans'

Can Assault squads go in Ravens? From what i understand he is planning on deployign his entire force (or close to it) in 3 fully loaded ravens.

Praxiss wrote:Can Assault squads go in Ravens?

Yes. Even if they have jump packs.

But each one will take up 2 spots. And his list definately said squads of 10......will have to keep that in mind in case he tries to jump 10 jump packs out of a raven.

He can take assault squads without the jump packs. That is what most BA players put into their transports.

Oh yeah, forgot about that.

Oh well. I will take what i can and just have to hope for the best.

As has been said, i can pop the transport early on i should be made. I have enough firepower than once his boot hit the dirt i can blast him pretty quickly.

I can wipe out the transports i can scrifice my scarabs in tar pitting dreads for a couple of turns. Since CCBs can sweep attack units locked in CC (did NOT know that!) if i can tie down a dread with scarabs my barges can take a couple of sweeps over it.

rigeld2 wrote:

Praxiss wrote:Can Assault squads go in Ravens?

Yes. Even if they have jump packs.

^what they said... also, I havent looked at the BA codex in a hot minute, but Im certain that models with jump packs count as two, so he should only have room for 6 assault marines


but the best suggestion I can give you pal, is Canoptek Wraiths... they are everything everyone has been saying they are and more... I won three games in a row last thursday in a 1500 point game with them against 2 very nasty types of assault armies, BA's with lots of death company and mephiston, and Raven Guard marines with shrike and 10 terminators... ripped them all apart...

Here was my list if youre interested

Overlord w/CCB
Warscythe, Sepiternal weave, mindshackles, phase shifter

Destroyer Lord
Warscythe, mindshackles, sepiternal weave

1 court:
2 lords: rez orbs, 1 staff of light, 1 gauntlet of flame, 2 minshackles
3 crypteks:
1 eldritch lance
1 voltaic staff, lightning field
1 Abyssal staff, tele-cloak (forgot the tech name)

2x20 warrior squads

5 deathmarks

6 Wraiths all with whip coils

lords obviously go with squads, as do crypteks of your choice... its up to you... I suggest the despair tek with the deathmarks for a 2+ wounding template that is AP1... suck on that for a minute
CCB overlord zooms around and distracts stuff... he can also do a rediculous amount of damage on his own (he has consistently taken on multiple opponents at once and won in combat 90% of the time)
The destroyer lord goes with the wraiths to make them even more nasty than what they already are, and they can chew through his storm ravens no problem, along with whatever he puts inside...

this is just a suggestion boss, but at 2K points you can add some extra support... I promise you will not be disappointed...

Side note: They loves chewing up TWC as well lmao...