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Here’s a hypothetical 40K story. The main character Alexander is a member of a powerful noble merchant family in and Imperial trading world. His father is a captain of one of the greatest vessels on the planet. His life should be perfect. But being 40K obviously it won’t. Despite his high born status he falls in love with mutant girl, one with a non visible mutation that allows him to pass her off as a pure human. This fails however this is soon discovered, the girl is sentenced to death by immolation, despite his family’s connections he will die too, to teach lesson about disloyalty to the aristocracy, as he watches his wife’s excruciating death he cries out.

His cries do not go unanswered, his agony is so intense that the Chaos Gods take notice, Khorne admires his rage, Nurgle is moved by his cries of despair, Slaanesh by his feelings of love and desire, and Tzentch by his desire to avenge someone he had shaped from birth(Tzentch mutated the girl). They use the psychic gap that his anguish ripped in the material universe too possess him and let him kill his would be executioners allowing him to escape and join the rebellion that had been brewing for some time that had finally started by the burning of the mutant girl.

The world had been rocked by revolts in the past, but this time they would have an ally, I man within the power structure who could initiate a coup. Alexander was more than a spoiled noble brat; he was a war hero who had fought at the forefront the Tyranid Wars. It was in those wars that caused his mentality to change, it caused him to see people for how they truly were rather than their birth, and it was that separation from his aristocratic family that caused him to falsely think that they would accept a commoner, much less an accursed mutant. But this reputation for bravery and egalitarianism found him much loyalty among the soldiers, sailors, and lower officers of the planets military. Not only does the planet but the entire system fell quickly to the forces of the rebellion.

The Imperium’s response is swift, brutal, and excessive. They send three million men, and two Astarte’s chapters to crush the rebellion. Though the Imperium originally just wanted the planets brought back into the fold the Astarte’s Chapter the Marines Malevolent and the Flesh Tearers quickly turn it into a campaign of genocide. In an attempt to buy time for the rebels and civilians evacuating the planet and fleeing into the Maelstrom he orders an assault on the Astarte’s Battle Barge, leading volunteers from the remaining rebel fleet in a Forlorn Hope(term used by the British Army at the time of Naponeon for an all volunteer assault against impossible odds) to buy time. The plan is as simple as it is suicidal, the last warships will head towards the Astarte’s Battle Barge, discharge their cargo, and return to guard the civilian transports, the Forlorn of Hope of course will all die.

They all die except him, he’s taken alive and sent to a gene seed production facility where he is placed in a glass cell with a strange slug like creature he later found out was used to make gene seed, over the course of the year the slug would suck him dry him of life. He heard this from a Space Marine Capt. who visited him to tell him why he had been spared, so he could repay the debt for the one Flesh Tearer killed in the battle, making no note of the hundred of chapter serfs Alexander’s men had butchered.

This is when the Gods reveal themselves to him, telling him how they saved his life before and can do so again, they even tell him how if he can retake his home planet and offer it up to Chaos his wife will be returned to him. All he must do is swear to fight in the long war against the False Emperor. He agrees and the cells are opened and the prisoners, most of which were veterans of the uprising spring from their cells, taking over the facility and stealing a ship before fleeing. In time fame from their exploits will grow, and Alexander will become a feared Chaos pirate and one of the few that can call to war the anarchistic groups that pirates comprise when the Warmaster beckons due to both Alexander skill as a pirate captain and the fact that the refugees he saved split and join different bands of heretics and rebels throughout the galaxy.

When he docks at a Word Bearers controlled port in the Maelstrom a Dark apostle will tell him that he is the one the Gods laugh at, and that unlike the other servants of Chaos the Gods picked him for their own amusement watching his exploits and his failures, his hope as well as his despair.
My idea for a warhammer book. I wanted a story about a likeable mortal servant of chaos. Your thoughts?

Thank you for reading, I know its a little long for a post.


Listen to this while reading, I want you to be a little depressed to capture the mood of the book.
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nVjQF4DKUOQ&feature=related

I like it, I really do. So often "sympathetic chaos lord" is synonymous with "robin hood like mary-sue anti-hero." I'm seeing failures and flaws in this story, which I like.

Just, please don't fall into that trap. This is still 40k. 'Likable and sympathetic' should not be synonymous with 'nice and pure'. Chaos corrupts. While it isn't necessarily evil, it is the personification of excess, temptation, and mutation. Personality traits are magnified beyond what is healthy: love, rage, fear, pleasure.

In a good 40k story (and most good stories period) the protagonist either loses, or wins while sacrificing a part of himself. This is especially true when dealing with chaos.

If you remember that temptation and corruption go hand in hand with chaos, and incorporate those themes into the character/story, I think this is a strong concept.

He is not meant to be a pure hearted robin hood hero, as the hypothetical book would explain much of his heroics are really selfish, his marrying a mutant girl even though he knowns if shes found out she'll be killed, his fighting in rebellion that he knowns will lead to imperial retribution, his leading the Forlorne hope is really just because the only person he really ever loved was dead and he wanted to commit suicide by Astarte, suicide is a exstreamily selfish act as the character will admit to hemself. Alexander is an exstemenly selfish individual and everyone he ever cares about has something bad happen to them, his wife, his crew, everyone, thats why the gods laugh at him.

I think its a really good idea, a few grammatical errors but as this isn't a final draft or anything i wouldn't worry much.

I've always liked the idea of a non-astartes chaos lord; it makes sense concidering how many billions of humans there are in the 40k universe compared to a few thousand astartes...

I'm looking forward to see where you go with this.

Bores

Just, please don't fall into that trap. This is still 40k

I'm well aware of the trap, I was reading series of books about a Viking warrior, in the first book he was a loveable murdering bastard but by the third book he turned into a nice guy and become boring, I understand that this character I’m making needs to be more than deeply flawed.

One thing I'm thinking about changing and would like your input on is his wife, if she can be resurrected or if she’s just dead. My original idea was to mimic the Iliad and the Odyssey with Alexander being Oddessious, of on a foreign war just wanting to return to his wife. I though that foreign war could be the second siege of Calth carried out by the Iron Warriors (if that doesn’t work somehow I could substitute a Black Crusade). The problem is this could make him too nice and this is 40k. Alternatively she could permanently be dead leaving him with a void in his life that leads him to further and further self destructive behavior. Another idea I had was he revives her, but she is utterly corrupted because of her soul spending so much time in the warp, she also reveals to him that this was all planned, and she was chosen by the Gods to lead him into their service. She takes to her new role as his queen and leads Alexander down the path of corruption, causing him to abandon all his remaining purity and become a cruel, capricious, Chaos pirate.

ZSO SAHALL wrote:Here’s a hypothetical 40K story. The main character Alexander is a member of a powerful noble merchant family in and Imperial trading world. His father is a captain of one of the greatest vessels on the planet. His life should be perfect. But being 40K obviously it won’t. Despite his high born status he falls in love with mutant girl, one with a non visible mutation that allows him to pass her off as a pure human. This fails however this is soon discovered, the girl is sentenced to death by immolation, despite his family’s connections he will die too, to teach lesson about disloyalty to the aristocracy, as he watches his wife’s excruciating death he cries out.

This is fine, though maybe have him do something to show his 'disloyalty to the aristocracy' he hasn't done much apart from marry a mutant...
Maybe he killed someone whilst trying to cover it up, like his father?

His cries do not go unanswered, his agony is so intense that the Chaos Gods take notice, Khorne admires his rage, Nurgle is moved by his cries of despair, Slaanesh by his feelings of love and desire, and Tzentch by his desire to avenge someone he had shaped from birth(Tzentch mutated the girl). They use the psychic gap that his anguish ripped in the material universe too possess him and let him kill his would be executioners allowing him to escape and join the rebellion that had been brewing for some time that had finally started by the burning of the mutant girl.

This is a bit odd...
Horus was empowered/possessed by all 4 chaos gods and that was possible because he was a primarch...
Doing this to a mortal human would likely not work quite as well...
Maybe have him just possessed by a regular daemon for a short while until he escapes?

The world had been rocked by revolts in the past, but this time they would have an ally, I man within the power structure who could initiate a coup. Alexander was more than a spoiled noble brat; he was a war hero who had fought at the forefront the Tyranid Wars. It was in those wars that caused his mentality to change, it caused him to see people for how they truly were rather than their birth, and it was that separation from his aristocratic family that caused him to falsely think that they would accept a commoner, much less an accursed mutant. But this reputation for bravery and egalitarianism found him much loyalty among the soldiers, sailors, and lower officers of the planets military. Not only does the planet but the entire system fell quickly to the forces of the rebellion.

This is fairly good but you may want to re-word a few bits.

The Imperium’s response is swift, brutal, and excessive. They send three million men, and two Astarte’s chapters to crush the rebellion. Though the Imperium originally just wanted the planets brought back into the fold the Astarte’s Chapter the Marines Malevolent and the Flesh Tearers quickly turn it into a campaign of genocide. In an attempt to buy time for the rebels and civilians evacuating the planet and fleeing into the Maelstrom he orders an assault on the Astarte’s Battle Barge, leading volunteers from the remaining rebel fleet in a Forlorn Hope(term used by the British Army at the time of Naponeon for an all volunteer assault against impossible odds) to buy time. The plan is as simple as it is suicidal, the last warships will head towards the Astarte’s Battle Barge, discharge their cargo, and return to guard the civilian transports, the Forlorn of Hope of course will all die.

Two entire chapters is pretty excessive...
I'd tone it down to maybe two companies instead...

They all die except him, he’s taken alive and sent to a gene seed production facility where he is placed in a glass cell with a strange slug like creature he later found out was used to make gene seed, over the course of the year the slug would suck him dry him of life. He heard this from a Space Marine Capt. who visited him to tell him why he had been spared, so he could repay the debt for the one Flesh Tearer killed in the battle, making no note of the hundred of chapter serfs Alexander’s men had butchered.

Gene-seed production facilities don't exist in this way...

This is when the Gods reveal themselves to him, telling him how they saved his life before and can do so again, they even tell him how if he can retake his home planet and offer it up to Chaos his wife will be returned to him. All he must do is swear to fight in the long war against the False Emperor. He agrees and the cells are opened and the prisoners, most of which were veterans of the uprising spring from their cells, taking over the facility and stealing a ship before fleeing. In time fame from their exploits will grow, and Alexander will become a feared Chaos pirate and one of the few that can call to war the anarchistic groups that pirates comprise when the Warmaster beckons due to both Alexander skill as a pirate captain and the fact that the refugees he saved split and join different bands of heretics and rebels throughout the galaxy.

Maybe have him in a Inquisitorial citadel instead? Being interrogated and they speak to him, he agrees and then escapes?

When he docks at a Word Bearers controlled port in the Maelstrom a Dark apostle will tell him that he is the one the Gods laugh at, and that unlike the other servants of Chaos the Gods picked him for their own amusement watching his exploits and his failures, his hope as well as his despair.
My idea for a warhammer book. I wanted a story about a likeable mortal servant of chaos. Your thoughts?

It's a fairly good idea, you don't have to portray the Imperium as such merciless bastards.
You could have him purely motivated by his wife's death rather than service to the gods merely using chaos as a means to an end...
That'd make him a touch more likable IMO...

ZSO SAHALL wrote:

Just, please don't fall into that trap. This is still 40k

I'm well aware of the trap, I was reading series of books about a Viking warrior, in the first book he was a loveable murdering bastard but by the third book he turned into a nice guy and become boring, I understand that this character I’m making needs to be more than deeply flawed.

Awesome. The I'm looking forward to see what is coming of this.

One thing I'm thinking about changing and would like your input on is his wife, if she can be resurrected or if she’s just dead. My original idea was to mimic the Iliad and the Odyssey with Alexander being Oddessious, of on a foreign war just wanting to return to his wife. I though that foreign war could be the second siege of Calth carried out by the Iron Warriors (if that doesn’t work somehow I could substitute a Black Crusade). The problem is this could make him too nice and this is 40k. Alternatively she could permanently be dead leaving him with a void in his life that leads him to further and further self destructive behavior. Another idea I had was he revives her, but she is utterly corrupted because of her soul spending so much time in the warp, she also reveals to him that this was all planned, and she was chosen by the Gods to lead him into their service. She takes to her new role as his queen and leads Alexander down the path of corruption, causing him to abandon all his remaining purity and become a cruel, capricious, Chaos pirate.

Resurrecting her could work, but personally I like her more as an unreachable goal, always just beyond his grasp. I especially don't like the "takes[...]her role as queen" idea. Don't like the idea of her being "chosen of chaos" either.

The perpetual descent is as bad as the perpetual rise to me, the pure evil as boring as the pure good. Those aren't interesting characters. Once you surrender yourself to corruption you are no longer fit to be the protagonist.

Personally I would like to see character development and internal conflict. Shades of grey. I'm also a big fan in the final redemptive sacrifice, even if it is futile, but that is just me.

Gene-seed production facilities don't exist in this way...

Their are like five different books that contradict each other on this, i'm not sure what to go with.

Maybe have him in a Inquisitorial citadel instead? Being interrogated and they speak to him, he agrees and then escapes?

Perhaps, but I want a way to throw in perveted science into the equation, something that would somewhat horrify and fascinate readers.

It's a fairly good idea, you don't have to portray the Imperium as such merciless bastards.

I'll try, i'm use to the earlier stories where the Imperials were a mix between Nazi Germany and Al Queda.

This is a bit odd...
Horus was empowered/possessed by all 4 chaos gods and that was possible because he was a primarch...
Doing this to a mortal human would likely not work quite as well...
Maybe have him just possessed by a regular daemon for a short while until he escapes?

The nature of Chaos is its capricous, the main idea of the book is they do this for their own pleasure.

Resurrecting her could work, but personally I like her more as an unreachable goal, always just beyond his grasp. I especially don't like the "takes[...]her role as queen" idea. Don't like the idea of her being "chosen of chaos" either.

Everyone exspects that though, for her to always be beyond his reach.

ZSO SAHALL wrote:
Everyone exspects that though, for her to always be beyond his reach.

That's true, and if you can think of a good, fulfilling alternative, go for it. But don't be different just for the sake of being different. Storytelling tropes and themes exist because they are fulfilling and interesting. If you just kick every tren purely to be unique you will just end up with an unfulfilling story.

For example, if you wrote a story where the main character (a teenager) was introduced, then died in chapter three in a car accident (because everyone expects authors wont just kill off the primary character that early, but after that much development), then switch to a man retiring who successfully embezzles from an orphanage and is never caught (because everyone expects justice in stories), then suddenly switch to a six year old in africa in 1823 (because no one expects 3 huge perspective changes, let alone a cultural change and time period change) who is goes off to avenge his father, and gets killed by a lion (no one kills kids), and end with the evil dictator successfully conquering the country (everyone expects the bad guy to win)...well you just have a sucky story.

If instead you JUST did the first change, and then focused on the effects his death had on those around him, you have an interesting 'unique' concept. It isn't unique because it bucks ALL storytelling trends. It's unique because it bucks one or two trends, and then explores that.

Like I said, storytelling tropes and themes exist for a reason. People 'expect' them because they 'expect' a fulfilling, interesting story.


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Continuing that thought on, if you decide to buck the trend and bring her back, make sure it is interesting and fulfilling. "She becomes his evil queen and they get eviller together forever" is unexpected, but mainly because it is boring, and people don't expect you to write something boring.

ZSO SAHALL wrote:

Gene-seed production facilities don't exist in this way...

Their are like five different books that contradict each other on this, i'm not sure what to go with.

It's never written about AFAIK but IMO it's unlikely they'd use a chaos tainted pow to create gene-seed with...

Maybe have him in a Inquisitorial citadel instead? Being interrogated and they speak to him, he agrees and then escapes?

Perhaps, but I want a way to throw in perveted science into the equation, something that would somewhat horrify and fascinate readers.

Rather than full blown possession, it might work better to have him either close his eyes and hallucinate for a while, the way up in a pile of mutilated corpses, or simply go the voices in my head route, especially if he's not meant to know it was the gods who intervened when they talk to him later.

Also, if the reason he's so understanding about mutants is because he was in a Tyranid War, you need to feature that as early as possible. Defining character moments don't work well if they're thrown in half way through the story.

purplefood wrote:
I get that but i'm not entirely sure a mortal man could stand possession by the chaos gods...
It'd break his mind shortly before his body explodes in a shower of tainted flesh...

It happened to Luther and he wasn't even an Astartes.

Still, having the actual major four seems a bit excessive. I'd actually just have it be one Daemon myself. Even if Daemons from all four Ruinous Powers took an interest, I still wouldn't have the actual Dark Powers involved.

I love the story. Good luck with it, it's a long road. As with any human, regret often accompanies success, especially of this magnitude. A real "human" Chaos Lord will probably be put through a multitude of situations where he may seem heartless, but in reality he feels something deep inside him being let go each time... consider them trials... each one of them making him a little bit less human, and a little bit more Chaosy....

I liked it, you got a good thing going if you ask me

Just to add a twist to his story, you could also try to make him into a half daemon half human hybrid, let's say the chaos gods got tired of him and decided he was better off as a daemon's vessel in the material world, so a daemon tries to possess him but his willpower to survive overpowers the daemon so the possession only goes halfway, now his body is half daemon and has the vitality and strength of a daemon to add to his chaos powers, and also the daemon is trapped inside his mind so he has a voice talking in his head all the time now

A Chaos lord.......who's sympathitic .good idea but knowing Chaos thats impossible ......... FOR THE EMPEROR But good story , seems as if you migh t want to make the fact that he is a esteemed war veteran at the start though

The beginning is a tad cliche (seen it before, standard romeo/juliet stuff), but not bad. I do like the end, though. Knowing that the Gods only saved you to laugh at you would be awful.

seen it before, standard romeo/juliet stuff

It is used allot mainly because love causes people to behave in self destructive ways regardless of consequences, and my character is a man who for the sake of love and vengeance becomes a pawn of the great powers fully knowing what awaits him.

Most of the story doesn’t have to do with the main characters past but rather his present and recent adventures.

I plan to deal with how he exists in different worlds, the world of aristocrat, the world of the soldier/sailor, and the world of the outlaw. After returning from war he was more a soldier than an aristocrat which get him into trouble (I like the idea of him killing a fellow aristocrat who exposed his wife’s mutation). After he flees to the maelstrom he enters into the world of the outlaw. Docking in New Badab he finds him constantly in danger, a renegade noble in a world populated by CSM and brigands he is neither fish nor fowl, it’s evident in his scarring, though he has scars from war he doesn’t have the calluses and missing knuckles and fingers of those who ran away from indentured servitude.

Decades later when he returns as part of an envoy from the Despoiler to secure the support from a family who rules over several star systems to rise up in rebellion. Chosen for the fact noble families within often sent their suns to spend years living with other noble families he find himself reemersed in the life of a royal court and with courtly love. He sees Nina, his old love when he spent years with her family, before the romance was welcomed when it brought the two families together, but now that he was an infamous pirate and traitor, one of her brothers challenges him a duel not wanting his sister and his family name dishonored.

He deals with the vengeful brother as an outlaw would, he knocks him out with one blow, he didn’t think much of it, after all her brother would almost certainly die fighting a man who had slain hundreds over two centuries, but he was now in the world of aristocracy, not the taverns of New Badab where brawls were an everyday part of life, regardless of rank or station, and the relatives look at him with scorn for breaking the codes of edicate. This reminds of what he truly hates about the nobility of the Imperium, not their repression of the lower classes, not their cruelty, but their stupidity, their reliance on idiotic honor codes. It also reminds him why he follows the Despoiler, A leader who saw the idiocy of looking to the past rather than preparing for the future, whether the past was a Legion of superhuman warriors, or a petty trading family.

Yup. It's a good story, but a long read.

Don't feel pressured to read it all I know its long.

I like it. I didn't mean that the romeo/juliet thing was bad, it's just used a lot (see that one Underworld movie, rise of the lycans I think, that is very much like this). One thing you could do is have the guy who revealed the mutation escape, and give your guy a revenge motive. Those are always fun. Though I'm not sure who Nina is.

Well, I think it has potential. You should write somthing about Dark Eldar!

I also plan on showing the more mundane and parts of being an outlaw and a pirate without making the book boring. In one chapter Alexanders ship is flooting in the viod on a mission from the Blood Reaver to obtain bolter ammo for his renegades, they spend monther waiting for a mechanicus ship carrying bolter shells to pass by a moon their hiding behind. In this boredom Alexander and his top officers have nothing to do, on his ship alcohol is forbidden amoung officers, and only given to off duty enlisted crew, so they sit around a table drinking coffee on smoking pipe tabacco swapping stories of raids and lives with other warbands. One officer kim was taken in a raid by the Red Corsairs, hardened by seeing her family killed at a young age she rose to the ranks of pirates by having no remorse and famed for her skills as an interrogater surgeon, Mel raised on a Chaos forge world deep in the eye was recruited to be a pilot as a child for his sharp eyes and ability to see things before they happened that almost certainly came from his warp upbringing, he saved the life of the despoiler by shooting down over 50 torpedos aimed at the vengefull spirit, he was later sent Sabbot worlds to bolster the forces of chaos, after fighter was crippled he was later rescued by Alexanders ship the NOMAD.

My opinion is their should be reference chart for facts about the main character not explained in the story that way the main character doesn't spend half the story narrating his or her life.

Well, I think it has potential. You should write somthing about Dark Eldar!

OK

The Raider King and the apostle knelt in reverence to the either. Letting their souls leave their bodies and swim in the warp. Together they travelled the realm of the gods, feasted with demons and battled them on different occasions, saw the raw power of change in Tzenches realm, life and death in Nurgles, indulged in excesses in Slaaneshs realm, and battled against hordes of Demons in the arenas of Khorne. It was the closest thing the Raider King had felt to comradeship in centuries. Most of his crew would die in the unshielded part of the ship and sense his pact with the Dark Ones the unshielded part of the ship was what he called home, he had his throne room where he was feast and celebrate with his chosen officers, but this was his sanctuary.
In unison both his and the Apostle rose and headed back to the main part of the ship sensing that the powers that be wanted them to lead their men once more. They walked into the throne room, full of pirates, traitor guard officers, rebel mutant lords, the honor guard of the apostle, and most unlikely of all several dark Eldar.

A toast to the Alien the Mutant and the Heretic he exclaimed. He flinched when he said those words. Though he little problem with humans with different genetics and always looked down upon the superstitious Imperial view of mutants he had little love for xenos, especially the Dark Eldar. Vampires, that’s what they were, leaching of what was rightfully humanities, drinking the souls of human in a way oddly similar to the False Emperor. And yet their aid had proved so useful. They were the few Eldar that would work with Chaos worshippers, those who had been cast out of their Comorah and now needed some way to protect themselves from Slaanesh. Better you than me was replaced with if can’t beat them join them.

Seems a rather silly thing for me to pick out, I know, but are you sure about calling his crewmates Mel and Kim?

I mean, Alexander, that's fine, fits the setting, has ties to Alexander the great etc, but I feel maybe the other names could be made a bit more Imperial-gothic sounding, something a bit archaic maybe?

So, instead of calling someone "Charles", call them Cato or Caius, as an example?
It might help anchor the setting better.

Also, be careful with putting your characters into well-known battles or with "famous" people, maybe rather than saying one of your crew served on the Vengeful spirit and saved Abaddon's life, perhaps tone it down a bit.

I hope you don't feel I'm being too harsh, I'm just trying to give you some constructive criticism, I think the core concept is very good, and I'd love to read a book about Chaos humans, rather than astartes. Keep up the good work!

IIRC Gene-seed is not made, only the Emperor knows how to make it and he's well.. Yeah, we all know what happened to him.
In the book 'Storm of Iron' Gene-seed facilities are actually just vaults where gene-seed is kept in storage for the creation of new chapters, this is why Apothecaries exist, to extract the gene-seed of their fallen brethren.
If the Imperium could create more, then why bother?

Exactly. No one knows how gene-seed is created, thus it is absolutely vital to a Space Marine Chapter to recover the gene-seed of their fallen. Otherwise, they are unable to replace their losses.

In the event of a Chapter suffering disastrous losses of its gene-seed, it may become necessary for the Apothecaries of the Chapter to use test-slaves to breed enough new gene-seed to bring the Chapter rapidly back up to full strength. These test-slaves are always human males, usually the condemned Imperial criminals that would otherwise be turned into Servitors. They are kept inside an artificial environment within the Chapter's fortress-monastery alive and partly conscious, but unable to leave their transparent Plasteel gestation chamber for the full 5-10 year maturation process. Needless to say, this solution is far from ideal, and is regarded as a last option to keep a Chapter alive. This method is also used by the Adeptus Mechanicus to create the large amount of gene-seed necessary for the Founding of a new Chapter since no existing Chapter could spare 1,000 copies of its gene-seed. However, as each Chapter is required to tithe 5% of its gene-seed away to Mars to be checked for purity, it is possible that the Imperium could build up a collection of gene-seed, and Found new Chapters that way en masse.

Also Fabuis bile can clone astartes and theirs a short story about a World Eater Apothecary only one loyalist gene seed to create thousands of space marines. As usual 40k contradicts itself. I also think its about time we got a better picture of this artificial environment with glass and test slaves.

How geneseed works is that the progenoid glands that are implanted in an Astartes-to-be eventually grows another one of itself. The progenoid is the "starter" organ for a lot of the other things Space Marines get stuffed with. This is also the thing they extract from dead Marines.

You can then implant this into another Marine-to-be, and as long as you have the progenoid glands, you can replace battle-losses. You can also implant them in non-Astartes in order to farm more from them, since it takes 5 to 10 years for it to mature and be safely removable.

This is not the same thing as creating gene-seed, which is where progenoid glands come from. That article seems to be mistaking progenoid glands for gene-seed.

http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Gene-seed#.Ux-Ozc4-d5o

 Psienesis wrote:
How geneseed works is that the progenoid glands that are implanted in an Astartes-to-be eventually grows another one of itself. The progenoid is the "starter" organ for a lot of the other things Space Marines get stuffed with. This is also the thing they extract from dead Marines.

You can then implant this into another Marine-to-be, and as long as you have the progenoid glands, you can replace battle-losses. You can also implant them in non-Astartes in order to farm more from them, since it takes 5 to 10 years for it to mature and be safely removable.

This is not the same thing as creating gene-seed, which is where progenoid glands come from. That article seems to be mistaking progenoid glands for gene-seed.

http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Gene-seed#.Ux-Ozc4-d5o

This is why dead Space Marines are so valuable to CSMs.