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Beerfart wrote:http://ustre.am/:18Ng9

Cheating for all to see at 33:10. Noob mistake then the cheat....

Cannot wait to hear the spin at YTTH on that one.

Welcome to several days ago and a few pages back.

If you listen to the audio he asked his opponent's permission. Doesn't change the noobiness and it certainly is more funny cause of who he is.

winterman wrote:

Beerfart wrote:http://ustre.am/:18Ng9

Cheating for all to see at 33:10. Noob mistake then the cheat....

Cannot wait to hear the spin at YTTH on that one.

Welcome to several days ago and a few pages back.

If you listen to the audio he asked his opponent's permission. Doesn't change the noobiness and it certainly is more funny cause of who he is.

Ya, if your looking for some cheating. Watch dash play tony in the 7th round. There was a lot that he did but the worst one was contesting with the ravager at the end of the game even though it got immobilized on the top of turn 5 by tony. The other stuff happened still but to have something that almost changed the outcome is a little more unforgiving. Luckily tony had the secondary.

Im happy none of my games are mentioned in this drama
But I can agree with the Warlock, your first few mins under the cam are a bit scary and intimidating and you feel extra dumb if you mess up a rule, which I am sure I did somewhere in my games.
But after about 10 mins or once the dice start rolling, you totally forget about the camera, the mic, the huge rig, and all the people watching. You get enveloped into the game and you just play seamlessly, or at least that's how it felt for me.

On Dashs and steleks, interesting choices regarding casualty removal. Id rather not comment lol

Tomb King wrote:

winterman wrote:

Beerfart wrote:http://ustre.am/:18Ng9

Cheating for all to see at 33:10. Noob mistake then the cheat....

Cannot wait to hear the spin at YTTH on that one.

Welcome to several days ago and a few pages back.

If you listen to the audio he asked his opponent's permission. Doesn't change the noobiness and it certainly is more funny cause of who he is.

Ya, if your looking for some cheating. Watch dash play tony in the 7th round. There was a lot that he did but the worst one was contesting with the ravager at the end of the game even though it got immobilized on the top of turn 5 by tony. The other stuff happened still but to have something that almost changed the outcome is a little more unforgiving. Luckily tony had the secondary.

I believe a wrongly immobilized ravager a believe.

Warlocke21 wrote:Big kudos to Mike for letting a new player enjoy a little limelight, feel a little special going 3-1 on day 1 at a huge tournament (and all the well-earned vinegar that goes with said limelight /grin).

I agree! It's pretty awesome that they didn't "rig it" to have someone super experienced and/or famous on table 1 at the start of the random draw. And props for coming on here and posting... I can't imagine how many mistakes I make per game (honestly, still getting 8e fantasy down...) and having it recorded would be pretty amazing AND pretty stressful . Great job going 3-1 the first day and cheers for coming on and posting about it!




Automatically Appended Next Post:

MVBrandt wrote:We had 24 people tie for 8 EXCELLENT/Best Game Ever votes over the course of their 8 games.

Dash of Pepper won best sportsmanship, though he'd passed out with his equally tired touristing wife by the time of awards, and we passed it down to Sean Nayden.

We had less unpleasant votes ("one of worst games ever") over the entire 800+ games played in the 40k GT ... than tied-for-best sportsmen. We're pretty happy w/ the sportsmanship.

While this is great- I wish Mannahnin's or similar sports scoring would get picked up. There's a certain amount of pressure to put "Best Game Ever" even if, you know... it wasn't!

But it does sound like people had a fantastic time! I wonder if riding out a hurricane had anything to do with the communal feeling

RiTides wrote:
While this is great- I wish Mannahnin's or similar sports scoring would get picked up. There's a certain amount of pressure to put "Best Game Ever" even if, you know... it wasn't!

But it does sound like people had a fantastic time! I wonder if riding out a hurricane had anything to do with the communal feeling

I don't know, I didn't feel any pressure, there were just a lot of great games and people playing them. I do kinda wish there was to rate at the end of the event 'best opponent' but logistically that is probably close to impossible to pull off.

by round 3, you pretty much got to know all the people at the tables around you as the rankings started to line up, so your neighbors were probably your next opponent. There was a communal feeling of the near by tables because of it.

Warlocke21 wrote:Hey all - I was "that tyranid player" (/braces self). Although I've been a GW player and fan since 2e, my play history in 5e is 2 friendly games, 1 very small 3-game FLGS tournament, and NOVA. With that in mind, I'll post a few comments to earlier posts about the 3 games from day 1, especially having had high expectations after the games from the day before. I obviously never expected that I would *ever* be on table 1 at NOVA, and even asked Mike if he was okay with me being on camera/miked up given my (lack of) experience. Big kudos to Mike for letting a new player enjoy a little limelight, feel a little special going 3-1 on day 1 at a huge tournament (and all the well-earned vinegar that goes with said limelight /grin).

If you're familiar with the tournament format, my initial random seed on Saturday was table 2 in bracket 1 (where the camera was), and wins pushed me to table 1 for the rest of the day.

Magilla Gurilla -
I can agree that the top table was not the most "appealing" games to watch.
I also saw some pretty shady things going on with the Tyranid player; however, I am willing to chalk it up to being new(er) to the game.
Having said that....
...I have no doubt that MVB is aware of the situation; and will do what he can to make sure all the parties involved are aware of any possible problems.

In my opinion two thumbs up for the willingness to have an event like this broadcast from beginning to end.

First - thanks for the benefit of the doubt: I'll own up to being uneducated/inexperienced any day of the week as that's absolutely accurate; deliberate cheating: not in a million years. After my initial flgs tournament experience I was very sensitized to my slow play, and intentionally took a smaller list to NOVA to help compensate, but clearly not enough. As far as the "situation" of I and my opponents only getting through 3-4 turns, Mike was definitely aware, as was John, the head judge. Mike and I talked about it, and he asked me to work on speeding up after the 2nd game; and then again, he, John and I all talked about it after the 3rd game. I was definitely stressing about it and did for the rest of the tournament, and appreciated Andrew pushing me in the 4th game.

hyv3mynd -
From the little I watched, there was a tyranid player under the camera for 2 games that only finished 3/4 turns. Wasn't very familiar with his own unit's stats and rules.

I understand there's added pressure playing under a camera and I've never done it. Even still, I've played nids exclusively for a year and you really have to move to finish 2k games in a time limit. Assaults with multiple initiatives, rending, armor, and FnP really slow the game down.

Tomorrow should be a lot better as hopefully the most experienced players play under the camera at a better pace with more solid rules knowledge.

Tiny bit of validation perhaps... thanks hyv3mynd.

whoadirty -
I would consider myself sort of a novice player, so it's interesting to see some of these guys not know the codex they are using. Or they are cheating. Just watched a Tyranid player playing against Grey Knights and when his Tervigon died, he said he only had to put wounds on one squad. There were a couple other instances I have seen in another game (for an army I don't even play) where the guy had to look up the rules. Is this common? I kind of expected guys to know their codex at a tourney like this.

This was a huge mistake on my part - and was so concerned about the slowplay aspects was not about to look into a rulebook unless forced to; and Andrew just said play on. I should have had this one down though.

Hey man, it's Andrew! You f'n cheater mccheatersoncheaterfaced me!

Just kidding, we all make mistakes, I read through the chat log and had a good laugh at it. Good lord the internet can be rough, apparently I'm a total scrub, and ALSO a cheat (it took me a bit to figure out what they were talking about during the chat log). During the same end turn, both of us dead tired, me on my 10th game in 2 days (not sure where you were at), I went to ground with Karamazov/Coteaz/1 DCA. I took my magnetized coteaz apart to represent this. Then you shot and killed him and the DCA. During my following turn, I moved karamazov (who had went to ground) and shot at your tervigon (and thank god, missed). In the chat log you're tervicheat, and I'm karacheat I think.

Or perhaps, in a not so sinister world, we were both just tired and forgetful while playing with our toy soldiers...

Don't take the log hard my friend, you played well and were a nice guy to chat with, I look forward to another game in the future!

I think everything went well.

Some things we had planned didn't work out. We had the capability to do on screen drawing, think saturday-night-football-presenter. At the last moment we were informed that Livestream would not verify us, causing us to be limited to 50 viewers, with no search for capability. We chose Livestream because of the better toolset and ability to get the program to work with a on-screen-presenting-tool. We switched to ustream and were unable to get 3 different onscreen tools to work.

Doing Live play-by-play was hard since we found having one of us table side talking, keeping the guys chatting on pic-in-pic, to be too intrusive.

Wireless mic's were doing well (sometimes too well, we audio taped one player taking a leak, the range was apparently greater than distance to restroom), but sucked 9 volts batteries. We used 22 of them, causing us to run around the local area trying to find a place not sold out due to Irene. In testing they lasted 6-8 hours, i guess in a loud hall they transmit more and lasted 3-4 hours. We were afraid background noise would make them useless, but it worked out.

The high-end webcam worked well, although the rig was built to be 8 feet, taking advantage of the camera's HD widescreen quality to easily cover the whole board. This was great for livestream... But we ended up having to use Ustream, causing our rig to be too low, we added 2 feet and lots of ducktape (Steve has a saying for that, which i can't post here). We were unable to get the table all the way in, an inch on each of the short edges was not there.

The rig proved a bit of a problem, we will improve it for more stability next time. In testing we never touched it. In real life, it suffered from multiple 'moon-landings' and spectator bumps, causing us to have to readjust the rig / table each round. Barbed wire and 220 volt capacitors may be in order next year.

We were closer to the table than we would have liked, we forgot a powered USB hub to boost signal, the USB cable could only be 15 feet, before camera refused to work.

Having a lapel mic for the judge would be good next time.

We would like to add side view cams to the rig, and maybe an adjustable camera for the table to zoom in. You are unable to take advantage of features of the camera, such as digital zoom, while Ustream or live stream takes the feed. We will need to find a program that sits between the two.

We found that people (at least from chat feedback) wanted to hear us less, and hear the players more. Which actually works out for us, because we can run the rig on auto, so we could still play in the event. I applaud the Independent Characters for giving up their games to cover the event, with out compensation i may add, but we came to play first, cover second. I dropped from team in favor of covering Invitational, Dave from Eternal warriors was awesome enough to take my place (if i had played, we would not have been 2nd )

If you have a question about equipment, message me. There is too much equipment involved in covering one table to cover more, it took one of our two cars just to transport the stuff. We would need a PC for each rig, laptops just don't have the power to render fast enough. The hotel obviously had fiber, which was a great boost to lag etc.

Leave us feedback, send us your awesome ideas on how to improve.

P.s. on a side note, we did not cover the Nova with video last year. The Gamers lounge did. Bill and Jay did ground breaking work. Independent Characters took it further to perfection. We just emulated and tweaked. They inspired us, i did not want to take their credit. They ran events this year at the Nova.

Pat, you guys did awesome! It was super-entertaining, and you did an outstanding job improvising, adapting, and overcoming multiple unforeseen challenges and difficulties to bring us a great and entertaining show. If you could hear me from there I would stand up and slow-clap.

Please don't judge people too hard, i doubt most people could survive the scrutiny of having up to 257 live viewers at a time watching and listening to a game, while trolling in the chat.

All games (almost all, some were lost in Ustream rendering hiccup) were recorded and saved here: http://www.ustream.tv/channel/the-11th-company/videos

No one refused to wear a wireless mic, if too many people scream cheater and make e-drama, we may not be able to do this in the future...

I was in the second bracket (Dark Eldar player with the really shiny black DE for those who were there) and ended up 5-3. I had an amazing time and got to play some great opponents. Overall great weekend!

Grey Knights are absolutely going to take over. There are so many possible lists that can absolutely crush at the hands of skilled players. Tony Kopac's brother (also an amazing player) brought a list that I actually ran into two times on day two that involves a big termie squad, Coteaz, psyfleman, and tons of psybacks with min henchman who run in from reserves. It's basically the imperial version of Venom spam and is incredibly tough. Both times it destroyed my Dark Eldar.

Finally, to those who want to stir up internet drama...just don't. It's a game. There will be mistakes, especially when you are playing 8 games in two days (even more for lots of the top players). There will always be the occasional bad game in which something happens and two people don't see eye to eye, however the event didn't feature any real big controversy and pretty much everyone seemed to have an amazing time. The armchair qbing from the basement gamers in some of these posts is laughable. Give the people who were on the top table the credit they are due, learn from the battles, but don't be a jerk while doing so.

Some suggestions so far:

Side view cameras on the rig: easily doable, but require someone to flip cameras in stream and man rig.

Provide Casino dice sets to players so dice can be seen when rolled: we discussed this with MVB, some people will insist on rolling their own dice.

Lapel Mic for table judge: working on it

Require players to roll dice in off table tray with camera on it: dice trays etc. are frowned upon at most tournaments.

More player interviews: We can only interview people if they are willing, for example Tony was really bummed out after first invitational loss, we didn't want to bug him.

Cover more tables: Too much equipment needed, doing this requires a lot of computing power.


Let us know if you have any other suggestions. We want to make this better, but do realize we aren't funded by sponsors/Nova/MVB/Donors etc. This is all out of pocket, and all during our main tournament event of the year.

Now you got me afraid to watch my games and read the chat.

Pat 11th Company wrote:Please don't judge people too hard, i doubt most people could survive the scrutiny of having up to 257 live viewers at a time watching and listening to a game, while trolling in the chat.

You guys did fantastic. I think that more streaming will only help the event overall as I really think people enjoy watching these games much like RTS replays and such. I think people need to lay off the drama because it is really between the two players... but it would be really cool to get maybe all 4 top tables as streams but logistically it may not be sound.

Blackmoor wrote:Now you got me afraid to watch my games and read the chat.

Chat logs are not captured. The tyranid player got to me before i saved his game and requested i copy them and email them to him, which i did. After looking over the email, i was some what dismayed on the chat entries. The chat was mostly unmonitored by us (we were logged in, but one of the judges would occasionally reply during games). We tried to reply on breaks.

I guess i can/should ask players if they want a copy of the chat logged before it is wiped between games.

I thought most of the chatters were civilized and having a good time. I wasn't on Sat, though, or during the day Friday.

JGrand wrote:I was in the second bracket (Dark Eldar player with the really shiny black DE for those who were there) and ended up 5-3. I had an amazing time and got to play some great opponents. Overall great weekend!

Grey Knights are absolutely going to take over. There are so many possible lists that can absolutely crush at the hands of skilled players. Tony Kopac's brother (also an amazing player) brought a list that I actually ran into two times on day two that involves a big termie squad, Coteaz, psyfleman, and tons of psybacks with min henchman who run in from reserves. It's basically the imperial version of Venom spam and is incredibly tough. Both times it destroyed my Dark Eldar.

Finally, to those who want to stir up internet drama...just don't. It's a game. There will be mistakes, especially when you are playing 8 games in two days (even more for lots of the top players). There will always be the occasional bad game in which something happens and two people don't see eye to eye, however the event didn't feature any real big controversy and pretty much everyone seemed to have an amazing time. The armchair qbing from the basement gamers in some of these posts is laughable. Give the people who were on the top table the credit they are due, learn from the battles, but don't be a jerk while doing so.

Well said!!!!

I was playing the orange salamanders army and played next to you on day two. I wanted to ask you if you used mothers car polish on those black models hehe. Very shiny hehe.

Most of the chat was ok, but if some of the chatters saw a rules violation or a mistake a few of them would get a little crazy...heaven forbid someone made two advantageous to them rules mistakes.

I thought the streams were great, a good job all around. What exactly is the computing power problem that makes streaming multiple games difficult? Is it just taking the Webcam feed and compressing it? I'm not sure I understand. I am not an expert on it though so I'm just wondering. I do currently work on mobile streaming systems for a living but it's using a lot of high end hardware so I'm just interested in it from a DIY standpoint where I have no experience.

I managed to dodge the cam for the whole event, and though Mike asked me a couple of times to do an interview I kept forgetting Probably both for the best though, as my accent would have had people signing off in droves

I ended up 7 and 1 for the weekend, losing on day 1 to Dark Eldar, which is an awful matchup for my Deathwing. Including the Invitational on Friday I managed to beat up on 4 Grey Knight armies and I was pleased to see two of them end up 4 and 0 at the end of day 1

Pat and I had a great game on Sunday morning and it was nice to put a face to the name on the podcast. The final of my bracket was a lot of fun it was a Wrecking Crew vs Cold Steel Merc captains matchup when I took on Marc Parker's Witch Hunters. Alas for Marc my Deathwing proved too mean for the girls and their crimes will have to go unpunished for a while longer. That's twice we've played now, and I'm looking forward to our next game!

Well said!!!!

I was playing the orange salamanders army and played next to you on day two. I wanted to ask you if you used mothers car polish on those black models hehe. Very shiny hehe.

Those orange Salamanders were very cool. And for the record it was varnish...lots of varnish haha.

Mannahnin wrote:I thought most of the chatters were civilized and having a good time. I wasn't on Sat, though, or during the day Friday.

It was fun shooting the breeze with you thursday night.

Yeah, Hod, likewise.

Why do people frown on dice trays?

I actually had a kid get upset...he didn't say anything, but you could tell he was not happy I was rolling dice in my my box....

I know back in 2000-2001 some guy at a GW run tournament had magnets in his dice and steel sheeting underneath his dtray.....but come on....

Hi

@ Pat - really enjoyed the matches. Great job! Hope you do it again next year.

It kept me motiviated while assembling stuff over the weekend.

Cheers,
Nate

I went 4-4 with a DoA Flesh Tearers list. I'm still recovering from all that playing.

I had a great time, but damn, people... 7/8 armies that I faced were MEQs.

Also, Game 4 of Day One: thanks to Marc Parker for one hell of a good game.

I watched the live coverage and I have a few suggestions. Overall I really enjoyed it, however here are a few areas to improve on.

Give up the idea of "play by play" coverage. 40k is just not a game that lends itself well to this format. The games are driven by the two players involved and simply watching the game on the table is not enough to know what is going on. Putting mics on the turn players is the best idea to happen to this live coverage format. Mic the judge but only activate his mic when he is at the table. Another issue I have with the "play by play" format is the livecasters doing it. It takes just a certain type of person to be good at livecasting. They need to have a good clear voice, tremendous knowledge of the game, and a persona they can project. I'll be frank, none of the guys on camera or on mic had that. I watch a lot of e-sports coverage and they can dig up some really terrible casters, it really ruins the whole livecast. Ditch the "play by play" idea and focus on the game and the players. In my opinion any cut in during the game takes away from what is going on greatly. When the game starts keep the camera and audio on the action.

This leads me to another point I would like to cover. Those players on table 1 are really going to dictate the livecast. There is simply nothing you can do to control this aspect unless you dictate who is playing under the camera. Blackmoor was great during his game, really entertaining and laid back player. Dash and Tony's game was another great game to watch, fast paced and it came down to the wire.

Add your coverage during the post and pre-game periods. For the pre-game coverage, grab the players army lists and post them on the screen. This is where you can get your hosts involved with discussion on play styles, list strengths, table terrain, and so forth. Once the game starts cut this chatter and get to the game. Resume your coverage during the post game. Discuss what went on during the game and generally talk about the game we just watched. The setup time between games is when you want to invite guests on, tourney organizers, and judges. Talk about what is going on over the whole event. I thought you did a great job this year getting people to talk about the event and what is going on at other tables. I'm also curious what happened to the meatball sub on table 1?

The camera rig was good in my opinion. Getting dice rolls on camera is just not going to happen in these fast paced games. As long as the players on these top players are talking about what is going on, I don't see the need for this. What happens when horde orks shows up on table 1? Are you going to provide 30 casino dice to roll? 30 casino dice won't even fit on a table without knocking stuff over.

I didn't like the picture in picture stuff, I tuned in to watch the game.

Keep up the good work I look forward to watching again next year.

KGatch113 wrote:

Why do people frown on dice trays?

I actually had a kid get upset...he didn't say anything, but you could tell he was not happy I was rolling dice in my my box....

I know back in 2000-2001 some guy at a GW run tournament had magnets in his dice and steel sheeting underneath his dtray.....but come on....

I was regularly rolling batches of 30+ dice and tried my best to roll in a valley between terrain to keep them from going all over the table. I think I could have really used a dice box. I never understood the dislike of them. How much time is lost re-rolling cocked dice, dice off the table or hunting dice who hide under tanks.

I think the Nova was well run especially when you consider the size of the undertaking and the challenges they faced. The terrain was a little crazy but I can't complain even though I was playing a very shooty GK army. I think many of the older books are much stronger with the Nova terrain and mission.

W/L is just not as good as MoV. It is alot more interesting and rewarding for people when they can score points. Tons of people were dropping on day 2 each round. I know some people were dropping because of the hurricane but still the drop rate is way higher in W/L. When the tightest game you have played in a long time is scored 15/15 out of 30 it is alot better than getting a loss and being taken out of the running. That being said I would still go to the Nova if I could afford to next year.

I would really like to see one of these 7-8 game events be set up over 3 days so that the rounds could be 150 or even 165 minutes and you could play a super tight game at a relaxed pace. There is a serious conflict between the amount of points we want to play with and the amount of time we are willing to spend. Having to wake up early and play super late blows, I want the time to go to dinner and hang out. Getting done late and having no options besides ordering pizza is lame. I go to these things because I am driven to compete but almost more importantly I go to hang with my buddies from around the USA. I would be willing to pay more for that level of relaxation, GTs are the only vacations I take.

Shinkaze wrote:I think the Nova was well run especially when you consider the size of the undertaking and the challenges they faced. The terrain was a little crazy but I can't complain even though I was playing a very shooty GK army. I think many of the older books are much stronger with the Nova terrain and mission.

W/L is just not as good as MoV. It is alot more interesting and rewarding for people when they can score points. Tons of people were dropping on day 2 each round. I know some people were dropping because of the hurricane but still the drop rate is way higher in W/L. When the tightest game you have played in a long time is scored 15/15 out of 30 it is alot better than getting a loss and being taken out of the running. That being said I would still go to the Nova if I could afford to next year.

I would really like to see one of these 7-8 game events be set up over 3 days so that the rounds could be 150 or even 165 minutes and you could play a super tight game at a relaxed pace. There is a serious conflict between the amount of points we want to play with and the amount of time we are willing to spend. Having to wake up early and play super late blows, I want the time to go to dinner and hang out. Getting done late and having no options besides ordering pizza is lame. I go to these things because I am driven to compete but almost more importantly I go to hang with my buddies from around the USA. I would be willing to pay more for that level of relaxation, GTs are the only vacations I take.

All this +1.

It seems events are adding more games each year and some are increasing points levels also. It's a great hobby and fun to get a bunch of games in on a weekend. I rarely have had or seen issues between players, but moods definitely change when you hear "30 minutes left" and you're starting turn 4. People will often get loose, sloppy, or forgetful when they're sweating the last few minutes as we saw on camera a couple times.

I wonder if surveyed, would the NOVA attendees prefer fewer points or less games over the current format? Is more games worth potential frustration of individual game results that were decided by a time limit instead of random game length.

I've played Nids for a year and GK for 4 months and I can tell you my GK games finish much more quickly. As a result, I tend to make less mistakes and am generally more relaxed and less stressed when playing my GK because I go into the game knowing I don't need to rush. How fast can you play a game and still enjoy it for the hobby it is?

I'm not saying there's any faults with NOVA's schedule, just wondering how feedback will effect next year's schedule. I think every single player that's commented has mentioned how 8+ games is draining and/or how tired they were on day 2. Whether there are changes or just minor tweaks to the system, this event is high on my wish lists for tournament travel if timing a cash flow are more favorable next year.

hyv3mynd wrote:
All this +1.

It seems events are adding more games each year and some are increasing points levels also. It's a great hobby and fun to get a bunch of games in on a weekend. I rarely have had or seen issues between players, but moods definitely change when you hear "30 minutes left" and you're starting turn 4. People will often get loose, sloppy, or forgetful when they're sweating the last few minutes as we saw on camera a couple times.

I wonder if surveyed, would the NOVA attendees prefer fewer points or less games over the current format? Is more games worth potential frustration of individual game results that were decided by a time limit instead of random game length.

I've played Nids for a year and GK for 4 months and I can tell you my GK games finish much more quickly. As a result, I tend to make less mistakes and am generally more relaxed and less stressed when playing my GK because I go into the game knowing I don't need to rush. How fast can you play a game and still enjoy it for the hobby it is?

I'm not saying there's any faults with NOVA's schedule, just wondering how feedback will effect next year's schedule. I think every single player that's commented has mentioned how 8+ games is draining and/or how tired they were on day 2. Whether there are changes or just minor tweaks to the system, this event is high on my wish lists for tournament travel if timing a cash flow are more favorable next year.

Most events won't be like the NOVA, I think it has emerged as a unique experience - a one of a kind mecca of a wargaming event that people will flock to. Most 2 day events will stay in the 5-6 round range, I imagine.