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 Kettu wrote:
Also, couldn't you handwave it and say Chaos did it?

Troike : That's quite a weak explanation, though. And if you've got a story where Chaos is able to make anybody into a CSM, why wouldn't they have done it elsewhere?

I'm going to ignore the fact that that exists, for the sake of keeping this thread on topic.

AWesker1976 wrote:

 Troike wrote:

 Kettu wrote:
Also, couldn't you handwave it and say Chaos did it?

That's quite a weak explanation, though. And if you've got a story where Chaos is able to make anybody into a CSM, why wouldn't they have done it elsewhere?

There's always the http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Daemonculaba

I suppose if they were really desperate to have female CSMs, that would be an option. But again, if we've got an instance where it's being used in a major conflict and on vast swathes of cultists, it'd seem odd that Chaos is only deploying it there.

But whatever. If they really want to crowbar female CSMs in (though they've said nothing about this) I wouldn't boycott it or anything. It'd be out of place in the wider lore, but not something I'd rage about.

They definently need to scrounge up some female options somewhere though.

 KalashnikovMarine wrote:
They definently need to scrounge up some female options somewhere though.

And they need to stop acting like the only reason people want female characters is so that they can have "sexy" characters...

In theory, of course there's room for female or even shemale CSM. "Slaanesh did it" <- there's your explanation. That being said, it would probably look odd if those were to become a common sight, and I really don't think that such a feature would rank highly in any developer's list of priorities. This franchise is dominated by 2 meter white male superhumans in powered armour, and since this is not going to change any time soon (which has nothing to do with the developers of Eternal Crusade), the only options are to either deal with it or look for something else, instead of continuously complaining that not everybody can do anything. As long as other factions have some more complexity and allow for greater customisation, I would instead focus on those rather than wasting countless hours on typing up intricate statements of grievance about thematic aspects of the entire franchise every single time said aspects influence a product. It's perfectly fine to state this ugly truth every once in a while, but it is not productive to do so all the time in an effort to seed negativity. It's not going to catch on if it did not work after the first few times it was posted, and it won't change anything about the status quo.

We should probably be fortunate that this game will at least feature more than just SM vs CSM, as was the case with Space Marine's (the game) multiplayer mode (given that it should not have been too hard to let people play Orks or IG there as well, as most of the necessary assets were already made).
Let's just see if Orks and Eldar are any fun (I certainly think they have the potential), and if the devs hold true to their statement to add more races later.

AWesker1976 wrote:The devs did say their game "doesn't exist" in the overall lore of 40K, so they could do that.
They just would have to be ok with the game never being considered "canon" by GW standards, but I could live with that.

Since there is no such thing as a uniform, consistent canon for 40k, this really is a non-issue.
GW occasionally denies stuff that is too far from the general "look and feel" of the setting (in which case the game simply would not be greenlighted for release), but as we should all know (and as Gav Thorpe explained), there is ample room for deviations and contradictions.

To be honest, I'm not really seeing the issue with there being a lack of female characters. It's in keeping with most of the factions they've chosen, which are the most popular and (more importantly) most recognizable ones in the brand. Most multiplayer shooters don't give the option, and this is much more of an MMO shooter than an MMORPG. They're planning on adding Sisters in later, great! But you're blowing this issue a little out of proportion here.

 Melissia wrote:

 Cheesecat wrote:
This is too sensible of an idea although IG and cultists would be underpowered so scrap them or make them part of the gakky f2p model.

Wouldn't have been too hard to have the following:

Imperium of Man:
Frontline: Marines
Specialist: Sisters
Psykers: Inquisition
Grunts: Imperial Guard

Forces of Chaos:
Frontline: Marines
Specialists: Mutants
Psykers: Daemonhosts
Grunts: Traitor Guard

The Ork WAAAGH:
Frontline: Nobz
Specialists: Mekboyz
Psykers: Wyrdboyz
Grunts: Boyz

The Craftworld Eldar:
Frontline: Aspect Warriors
Specialists: Warseers*
Psykers: Farseers
Grunts: Guardians

Giving each faction a good balance of "classes" and allowing free to play players to play grunts of any faction. The only one I wasn't sure about was the Eldar.

This doesn't work...you're pigeonholing people way too much with this. There are bound to be people who want to play as sisters of battle but don't want to play support roles or "specialists". Same goes for every other class, especially the imperial and chaos ones. I feel like you are throwing out your opinions on what would make YOUR perfect gaming experience without considering the fact that other people will be playing this game.

 Melissia wrote:

 KalashnikovMarine wrote:
They definently need to scrounge up some female options somewhere though.

And they need to stop acting like the only reason people want female characters is so that they can have "sexy" characters...

Also true, either way if they want to make a sustainable MMO female options are a must.

BrotherVord wrote:

 Melissia wrote:

 Cheesecat wrote:
This is too sensible of an idea although IG and cultists would be underpowered so scrap them or make them part of the gakky f2p model.

Wouldn't have been too hard to have the following:

Imperium of Man:
Frontline: Marines
Specialist: Sisters
Psykers: Inquisition
Grunts: Imperial Guard

Forces of Chaos:
Frontline: Marines
Specialists: Mutants
Psykers: Daemonhosts
Grunts: Traitor Guard

The Ork WAAAGH:
Frontline: Nobz
Specialists: Mekboyz
Psykers: Wyrdboyz
Grunts: Boyz

The Craftworld Eldar:
Frontline: Aspect Warriors
Specialists: Warseers*
Psykers: Farseers
Grunts: Guardians

Giving each faction a good balance of "classes" and allowing free to play players to play grunts of any faction. The only one I wasn't sure about was the Eldar.

This doesn't work...you're pigeonholing people way too much with this. There are bound to be people who want to play as sisters of battle but don't want to play support roles or "specialists". Same goes for every other class, especially the imperial and chaos ones. I feel like you are throwing out your opinions on what would make YOUR perfect gaming experience without considering the fact that other people will be playing this game.

I take it you've never played an MMORPG before as almost all of them involve classes designed for a specific role during combat.

Specialist doesn't mean support role, in this case.

 Melissia wrote:

 KalashnikovMarine wrote:
They definently need to scrounge up some female options somewhere though.

And they need to stop acting like the only reason people want female characters is so that they can have "sexy" characters...

What's worse is the "sexy" female characters are rarely attractive...

We need more sexy male characters.

 Cheesecat wrote:

BrotherVord wrote:

 Melissia wrote:

 Cheesecat wrote:
This is too sensible of an idea although IG and cultists would be underpowered so scrap them or make them part of the gakky f2p model.

Wouldn't have been too hard to have the following:

Imperium of Man:
Frontline: Marines
Specialist: Sisters
Psykers: Inquisition
Grunts: Imperial Guard

Forces of Chaos:
Frontline: Marines
Specialists: Mutants
Psykers: Daemonhosts
Grunts: Traitor Guard

The Ork WAAAGH:
Frontline: Nobz
Specialists: Mekboyz
Psykers: Wyrdboyz
Grunts: Boyz

The Craftworld Eldar:
Frontline: Aspect Warriors
Specialists: Warseers*
Psykers: Farseers
Grunts: Guardians

Giving each faction a good balance of "classes" and allowing free to play players to play grunts of any faction. The only one I wasn't sure about was the Eldar.

This doesn't work...you're pigeonholing people way too much with this. There are bound to be people who want to play as sisters of battle but don't want to play support roles or "specialists". Same goes for every other class, especially the imperial and chaos ones. I feel like you are throwing out your opinions on what would make YOUR perfect gaming experience without considering the fact that other people will be playing this game.

I take it you've never played an MMORPG before as almost all of them involve classes designed for a specific role during combat.

I see it as a bit constricting for the Imperium, personally. Guard would just be represented by regular troopers, and one might have as many options for their Marine or SoB if they're put into specific roles like that.

 Melissia wrote:
Specialist doesn't mean support role.

Ideally, I'd still prefer they get their own faction, though. They're certainly at their best when they're not having to share the spotlight with anybody.

The fact that there does not appear to be a variety of job classes suggests to me that there will be very limited tactics. Having a group, with a tank, DD, buffer and other support requires team work and some strategy.

This game sounds like the Final Fantasy XI equivalent of, "Hey lets get a bunch of warrior/ninjas and just zerg rush it."

Anyway, some people actually enjoy playing a support role but they wont be playing this game.

Having their own faction would present some interesting challenges to the 4-way war setup they have going. It wouldn't make too much sense for the Marines and Sisters to be at war with each other, so having them under one "Imperium" faction makes much more sense.

JWhex wrote:
The fact that there does not appear to be a variety of job classes suggests to me that there will be very limited tactics.

It's sad really. I mean the Battlefield series makes classes work for it, and it's also a shooter...

 MandalorynOranj wrote:
Having their own faction would present some interesting challenges to the 4-way war setup they have going. It wouldn't make too much sense for the Marines and Sisters to be at war with each other, so having them under one "Imperium" faction makes much more sense.

It wouldn't be too unrealistic from a fluff standpoint. Sisters are already distrustful of Marines, and it would be fairly simple to just say that they have differing goals, and may come into conflict as a result of this.

Soulstorm's justification could work. The Sisters see the place as tainted by Chaos and decide to purge anybody who doesn't submit themselves to Ecclesiarchial (or Inquisitorial) authority.

An easy way out would, of course, also be to simply make Space Marines and Battle Sisters share the same faction and the same classes - in essence, only featuring a visual difference, like "skins". Their organisation and wargear are similar enough, and the Marines' +1 in genetic enhancements would be compensated by simply saying that the Sisters' faith gives them an equal boost. Which is close to what GW once said on their homepage, anyways.
Granted, you'd lose out on the rather interesting mechanic that the Sisters are normally somewhat less capable, yet can use AoF to temporarily catapult themselves above and beyond the Marines, but .. hey, it'd be an easy solution that does not afford much resources other than making the models and textures.

Of course I'd still prefer to have that above-mentioned "bell curve" effect of the Acts of Faith (which have potential to be an interesting mechanic in an MMO), not to mention a greater focus on the small but notable differences that do exist (such as the Seraphim being somewhat more about ranged combat than close, whilst with Assault Marines it's the other way around).

Can anyone provide me with the dev's email? Because they were so responsive last time, I want to ask some questions.

With that four class system, why would anyone want to play the IG?

Oh, and feel free to share the dev's email, let's all barrage them with our concerns of being let down for a third time.

 DemetriDominov wrote:
With that four class system, why would anyone want to play the IG?

Because that's the class that's free to play for the Imperium of Man.

So if I [a.k.a several million next gen gamers] buy a $70.00 next gen game that's going to all consoles to begin with..... again... what's the point?

 DemetriDominov wrote:
So if I [a.k.a several million next gen gamers] buy a $70.00 next gen game that's going to all consoles to begin with..... again... what's the point?

I don't have an answer for that, but keep in mind, I'm just using the same free to play system that the devs have already outlined. They're already apparently committed to this-- Ork Boyz are the only thing F2P players can play, and Space Marines are stated to be five times as strong as an Ork Boy.

How that will translate in to console gaming I don't know.

 Cheesecat wrote:

BrotherVord wrote:

 Melissia wrote:

 Cheesecat wrote:
This is too sensible of an idea although IG and cultists would be underpowered so scrap them or make them part of the gakky f2p model.

Wouldn't have been too hard to have the following:

Imperium of Man:
Frontline: Marines
Specialist: Sisters
Psykers: Inquisition
Grunts: Imperial Guard

Forces of Chaos:
Frontline: Marines
Specialists: Mutants
Psykers: Daemonhosts
Grunts: Traitor Guard

The Ork WAAAGH:
Frontline: Nobz
Specialists: Mekboyz
Psykers: Wyrdboyz
Grunts: Boyz

The Craftworld Eldar:
Frontline: Aspect Warriors
Specialists: Warseers*
Psykers: Farseers
Grunts: Guardians

Giving each faction a good balance of "classes" and allowing free to play players to play grunts of any faction. The only one I wasn't sure about was the Eldar.

This doesn't work...you're pigeonholing people way too much with this. There are bound to be people who want to play as sisters of battle but don't want to play support roles or "specialists". Same goes for every other class, especially the imperial and chaos ones. I feel like you are throwing out your opinions on what would make YOUR perfect gaming experience without considering the fact that other people will be playing this game.

I take it you've never played an MMORPG before as almost all of them involve classes designed for a specific role during combat.

Everquest, Star Wars galaxies, eve, world of Warcraft, warhammer online, lord of the rings online, planet side, city of heroes, dc universe online....did I miss any?

I know how classes work, there's a difference between a class that has various options, ie a warlock speccing for damage or support, and telling people "oh you're a space marine? To the front lines with you!" It's overly simplistic and not very well thought out.

 Melissia wrote:

 DemetriDominov wrote:
So if I [a.k.a several million next gen gamers] buy a $70.00 next gen game that's going to all consoles to begin with..... again... what's the point?

I don't have an answer for that, but keep in mind, I'm just using the same free to play system that the devs have already outlined. They're already apparently committed to this-- Ork Boyz are the only thing F2P players can play, and Space Marines are stated to be five times as strong as an Ork Boy.

How that will translate in to console gaming I don't know.

I need this reference. Would you be so kind as to link it? There is clearly news that I am not aware of and it scares me because I'm starting to not like this compromise these guys are considering.....

 Lynata wrote:
An easy way out would, of course, also be to simply make Space Marines and Battle Sisters share the same faction and the same classes - in essence, only featuring a visual difference, like "skins".

No.

Where the f*** is tau???? Bulllsh*t!!!! What A**HOLES!!!!!

 Melissia wrote:
Wouldn't have been too hard to have the following:

Imperium of Man:
Frontline: Marines
Specialist: Sisters
Psykers: Inquisition
Grunts: Imperial Guard

Forces of Chaos:
Frontline: Marines
Specialists: Mutants
Psykers: Daemonhosts
Grunts: Traitor Guard

The Ork WAAAGH:
Frontline: Nobz
Specialists: Mekboyz
Psykers: Wyrdboyz
Grunts: Boyz

The Craftworld Eldar:
Frontline: Aspect Warriors
Specialists: Warseers*
Psykers: Farseers
Grunts: Guardians

Giving each faction a good balance of "classes" and allowing free to play players to play grunts of any faction. The only one I wasn't sure about was the Eldar.

It's a cool idea, but it doesn't take into account areas where the differing classes might mix.

Space Marine Librarians for example.

We're getting awfully worked up over a game that hasn't hit alpha yet, and in all probability won't see release. If it does, it's going to be an MMOTPS.

I think people need to realize that about a tiny portion of the game has been discussed and nothing confirmed. At this stage of development anything can change, they haven't even got an engine for the game yet