HeroQuest 25th Anniversary Edition - Crowdfunding Shutdown yet again.

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**judgedoug**

Kroothawk wrote:

GW person 2: "Sue the crap out of them, file it 22nd December!"
GW person 1: "Huh. Okay, well do we still own the trademark?"
GW person 2: "You must be new here. We don't care about those things until the lawsuit is almost over."

LOL! fortunately even a sleepy drunken judge wouldn't even allow that as it's pretty black and white that GW decidedly owns no trademark related to HeroQuest, and even if the judge was somehow bribed, is he going to fly to Spain and ignore the Spanish government and all law to tell Gamezone to stop?

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Absolutionis wrote:
Relevant news from an anonymous source:
http://www.tabletopgamingnews.com/2013/11/28/81513/

HeroQuest has been doing rather well over on Kickstarter for Gamezone.
Though questions have arisen about whether or not they have the license to print the game.
An anonymous source close to TGN has said that, as of yet, Gamezone does not, in fact, have the license.
At time of posting, Gamezone has not replied to an e-mail from us asking about the matter.

I know TGN doesn’t generally do such news posts, but I wanted to pass this one along, as my source is rather reliable on such matters. Gamezone recently posted up a long video answering a lot of questions about the game, but this question in-particular has been somewhat deflected or not directly answered on several occasions.

Stay tuned for further developments.

Seems like non-news, but makes everything look somewhat shady.

Psst... they don't need a license. Gamezone owns the trademark.
Are they licensing it to themselves?

**Absolutionis**

It's an amusing point that if you don't need a license because you own the trademark, it's a good reason to not have the license.

It's also notable that TTGN, the site reporting the anonymous source, is owned by CMoN, host of many popular Kickstarters that happen to not be Heroquest.

I'm still a backer. I just hope nothing silly comes of all this.

**judgedoug**

Absolutionis wrote:
It's an amusing point that if you don't need a license because you own the trademark, it's a good reason to not have the license.

It's also notable that TTGN, the site reporting the anonymous source, is owned by CMoN, host of many popular Kickstarters that happen to not be Heroquest.

I'm still a backer. I just hope nothing silly comes of all this.

Righto. If I'm not confident in the last hour of the last day, I'll pull my pledge. Until then, I know one irrefutable fact: Gamezone owns the Heroquest trademark in Spain, plain and simple. They can legally release anything they want and name it Heroquest and I'll legally be able to buy it.

**DaveC**

and there we go - park that one until after Christmas at least I think.

Kickstarter <support@kickstarter.com>

7:16 PM (1 minute ago)

to me

Hi there,

This is a message from Kickstarter Support. We're writing to inform you that a project you backed, Heroquest 25th Anniversary, is the subject of an intellectual property dispute.

The project has been removed from public view until the dispute is resolved, which can take up to 30 days. The project’s funding and the countdown to its deadline have been stopped. If the project becomes available again, the countdown will continue and the new deadline will extend past the original deadline for as much time as the project was unavailable. You can find out more by reading our Copyright Policy and our Trademark Policy.

Original deadline: Friday Dec 27, 11:00pm GMT
Time remaining if project becomes available: 29 days

Your pledge is currently still active. If you’d like to manage your pledge or reach out to the creator directly, you can still do so through the project page:
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/2113976860/heroquest-25th-anniversary?ref=email

Thanks so much for your patience and cooperation,
Kickstarter

**judgedoug**

That's it. I'm going to start disputing every KS!

**Splod**

Yep, just got the email.

I say we blame Culldarinal.

**scarletsquig**

Dammit, Games Workshop.

**Alpharius**

So judgedoug, what's up with that?!?

**rigeld2**

judgedoug wrote:
Kroothawk wrote:

GW person 2: "Sue the crap out of them, file it 22nd December!"
GW person 1: "Huh. Okay, well do we still own the trademark?"
GW person 2: "You must be new here. We don't care about those things until the lawsuit is almost over."

LOL! fortunately even a sleepy drunken judge wouldn't even allow that as it's pretty black and white that GW decidedly owns no trademark related to HeroQuest, and even if the judge was somehow bribed, is he going to fly to Spain and ignore the Spanish government and all law to tell Gamezone to stop?

GW didn't own several trademarks in the Chapterhouse suit but that didn't stop them from filing...

**judgedoug**

Alpharius wrote:
So judgedoug, what's up with that?!?

You tell me. I'm confident after KS completes it's investigation then Game zone will be in the clear. And all the speculation will be put to rest.
I'd wager that after being alerted, Hasbro contacted KS. When they realize they don't own it, it'll be fine.

Sorry, on mobile so hard to use dakka

**Erasoketa**

Wonderful. I hope that the resolution of this at least will be definitive, be it good or bad.

**highlord tamburlaine**

So who blew the whistle?

Hope they get everything sorted out.

Maybe they'll fix those ridiculously large gaps in the stretch goals while they're at it.

Or come back at a later time when my wallet could better afford it.

Maybe more black friday shopping now?

**Absolutionis**

Well damn.

**Splod**

GW don't have a leg to stand on, unless they're arguing that 28mm fantasy figures are their IP also?

I suspect Hasbro UK has kicked up a stink.

**OrlandotheTechnicoloured**

It's certainly interesting,

I've seen KS kill projects before but never this 'suspended but your pledge is still live' business

I guess they must think it's a 50/50 chance that the IP dispute is false/mistaken

**DaveC**

Better that it happens now then and if it's resolved in Game Zones's favour then at least people can be a bit more confident about it. That said it's not a court of law and is still subject to challenge afterwards but hopefully who ever challenged it would let it be then at least they did the right thing and lodged an objection before it got to far in or worse backers had paid up.

**Splod**

I'm looking forward to hearing an announcement from GZ themselves.
If the IP issue is resolved, it will be interesting to see if it increases support for the project? I wouldn't be surprised if people are burned by the suspension and decide not to back.

**Absolutionis**

This IP issue was bound to blow up sometime. It's better that it happened and we'll get a definitive answer during the campaign than leave people's money in limbo after the campaign.

**OrlandotheTechnicoloured**

I wonder where the dispute has come from

Hadbro (still hold the IP rights in some juristictions),

Greg Stafford (has the US name IP)

GW (probably no real claim with the fimir gone, but then GW is GW),

or the original designer Stephen Baker (worked for Hasbro so probably has no standing either)

**Forar**

Well, that's a shame. I imagine even if/when this fires back up, there'll be a lot of churn in the backers as people get cold feet, even if it's proven 100% to be legit and unflinchingly good to go for the duration.

I am glad this is getting sorted out in advance, but I'm not thrilled about a potential month setback (yes I'm aware that these are mutually exclusive sentiments).

**DaveC**

Hasbro have already said that HQ falls under WoTC remit WoTC have acted against several other KS in the same way (as we have experience Orlando) so my money is on them but in fairness they always try to resolve it before a KS ends and backers have paid up so they don't get stuck in limbo.

**Pacific**

Oh well... at least this will hopefully get it sorted out one way or another.

Be interesting to see when details of this can come out, and who/what/how it is being challenged.

My greatest fear is it being completely withdrawn, and then the license staying dormant for years to come :(

**OrlandotheTechnicoloured**

Ahh I hadn't registered Hasbro had said that

That makes me more hopeful this will get to carry on whichever way it's decided

(as you say they've been very reasonable in their requests when they could in theory have been complete gits in certain other KS projects)

Heroic Quest with different cover art anybody?

**nkelsch**

I am curious to find out who challenged and on what points.

I wonder if GW really does feel they own "black orcs" as that is a gw specific idea.

Also, when hasbro sees half a million dollars thrown at something after 2 days, mild indifference may turn into "we need to release this ourselves."

Maybe hasbro or wotc will buy them out and produce a more accessible game?

**Forar**

nkelsch wrote:
Also, when hasbro sees half a million dollars thrown at something after 2 days, mild indifference may turn into "we need to release this ourselves."

Maybe hasbro or wotc will buy them out and produce a more accessible game?

That'd be a compromise I could live with.

"Look, guys, sure you could shut us down and do your own thing in a year, but you know the community will probably gak on you for it. We work together, you pony up some financing alongside the KS contributions, we sort out distribution, everybody wins and come out looking like reasonable people who want nothing more than to support the fans."

C&D'ing (figuratively) a group and then trying to run their own could backfire, but given the raw enthusiasm shown it's possible the fanbase wouldn't really care as long as they got their hit of dungeon delving and monster slaying.

**highlord tamburlaine**

I don't know if I want a more accessible game though- I liked the thought of having a fully tricked out board with all 3d terrain, multiple classes, new quests and monsters, everything uniquely posed...

....All of which Hasbro most certainly wouldn't bother with.

Cheaper? Absolutely. As cool? Dunno.

**grak**

DaveC wrote:
Better that it happens now then and if it's resolved in Game Zones's favour then at least people can be a bit more confident about it. That said it's not a court of law and is still subject to challenge afterwards but hopefully who ever challenged it would let it be then at least they did the right thing and lodged an objection before it got to far in or worse backers had paid up.

Yeah good point. One way or another this should stop everyone crying over whether or not they own the IP.

**Splod**

nkelsch wrote:

I wonder if GW really does feel they own "black orcs" as that is a gw specific idea.

After it being proved GW doesn't have the IP rights to the term 'Space Marine,' I promise you that idea won't stand up to a light breeze.

Not to mention the Tolkein estate having something to say on the topic of Black Orcs.

**decker_cky**

Good on Kickstarter for how they're solving this. Much better to pause the campaign, resolve the issue then let people back with a bit more confidence (or not back at all depending on resolution) than to push through the campaign, maybe have it get shut down after money had been taken, and hurt the credibility of the overall Kickstarter system.

I also like that this will push the campaign further past Christmas.

**Alpharius**

judgedoug wrote:
Alpharius wrote:
So judgedoug, what's up with that?!?

You tell me. I'm confident after KS completes it's investigation then Game zone will be in the clear. And all the speculation will be put to rest.
I'd wager that after being alerted, Hasbro contacted KS. When they realize they don't own it, it'll be fine.

Sorry, on mobile so hard to use dakka

I hope so - but given all the parties involved, I think this is what most people were concerned about having happen - and it did.

I'm just glad it happened now, before the KS ended, then some time after the KS ended, and all that money ended up in some hellish legal trap.

I don't think there's a doubt that the runaway success to date of this campaign prompted whoever it was to take action...