Shadow Spear / New Chaos Space Marines

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**Slayer-Fan123**

Galef wrote:
GoatboyBeta wrote:
Nah all the battle boxes so far have contained the full retail kits. The new Oblits may effectively be monopose. But whatever is in the Darkspear box is what will appear on the shelves when they get a separate release.

True. Let's hope that the Oblits in the box are indeed dual-kit Mutilators. Even if "monopose" for the Oblits themselves, is wouldn't be hard to make the guns optional and have arm-swaps to be "monopose" Mutilators.

Mutilators aren't even good, but it's just too logical to make them use the same base model as Oblits. Also gets rid of more Finecast

-

Mutilators are passable, possibly even okay, after Chapter Approved cut their cost even more.

**Not Online!!!**

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Galef wrote:
GoatboyBeta wrote:
Nah all the battle boxes so far have contained the full retail kits. The new Oblits may effectively be monopose. But whatever is in the Darkspear box is what will appear on the shelves when they get a separate release.

True. Let's hope that the Oblits in the box are indeed dual-kit Mutilators. Even if "monopose" for the Oblits themselves, is wouldn't be hard to make the guns optional and have arm-swaps to be "monopose" Mutilators.

Mutilators aren't even good, but it's just too logical to make them use the same base model as Oblits. Also gets rid of more Finecast

-

Mutilators are passable, possibly even okay, after Chapter Approved cut their cost even more.

Until you realise that they have m4

**H.B.M.C.**

Galef wrote:
Of course the Oblits we have seen are monopose just for the Shadow Spear box. But it would be stupid of GW not to include Mutilators in the INEVITABLE solo, multi-part kit that we are referencing.

Why are we assuming that any of these kits are mono-pose starter minis?

**aracersss**

pretty damn sure no campaign boxset bar starter sets have easy build kits ... unless by monopose we refer to legs' pose (maybe arms too)

**Red_Five**

H.B.M.C. wrote:
Galef wrote:
Of course the Oblits we have seen are monopose just for the Shadow Spear box. But it would be stupid of GW not to include Mutilators in the INEVITABLE solo, multi-part kit that we are referencing.
Why are we assuming that any of these kits are mono-pose starter minis?

I am not sure if these will be "real" kits or "push fit" kits. Regardless, they will all be mono-pose. That is pretty much all GW does now-a-days.

**Galas**

I don't expect much possability from a kit like Obliterators. Those flesh arms and legs, and those weapons... I can see variety in equipement, but not that much in pose.

But then I also tought that about the new Rock Trolls because they only show the same 3 models and then the kit actually comes with a good bunch of variety, much more than older kits like Minotaurs.

**Slayer-Fan123**

Not Online!!! wrote:
Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Galef wrote:
GoatboyBeta wrote:
Nah all the battle boxes so far have contained the full retail kits. The new Oblits may effectively be monopose. But whatever is in the Darkspear box is what will appear on the shelves when they get a separate release.

True. Let's hope that the Oblits in the box are indeed dual-kit Mutilators. Even if "monopose" for the Oblits themselves, is wouldn't be hard to make the guns optional and have arm-swaps to be "monopose" Mutilators.

Mutilators aren't even good, but it's just too logical to make them use the same base model as Oblits. Also gets rid of more Finecast

-

Mutilators are passable, possibly even okay, after Chapter Approved cut their cost even more.

Until you realise that they have m4

Meh. Once they make a charge and they're in the thick of it, you're good for further combat. The low cost of opportunity is a pretty good deal for what they can do.

**BrotherGecko**

Multi-part might explain why some people have seen 6 different chaos marines. There could be 5 with different accessories.

**Kirasu**

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Not Online!!! wrote:
Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Galef wrote:
GoatboyBeta wrote:
Nah all the battle boxes so far have contained the full retail kits. The new Oblits may effectively be monopose. But whatever is in the Darkspear box is what will appear on the shelves when they get a separate release.

True. Let's hope that the Oblits in the box are indeed dual-kit Mutilators. Even if "monopose" for the Oblits themselves, is wouldn't be hard to make the guns optional and have arm-swaps to be "monopose" Mutilators.

Mutilators aren't even good, but it's just too logical to make them use the same base model as Oblits. Also gets rid of more Finecast

-

Mutilators are passable, possibly even okay, after Chapter Approved cut their cost even more.

Until you realise that they have m4

Meh. Once they make a charge and they're in the thick of it, you're good for further combat. The low cost of opportunity is a pretty good deal for what they can do.

They're one of the worst units in the book for 3 editions now. Just because they made a charge once and killed some tactical marines doesn't mean they're not terrible. The only thing worse than Mutilators are maybe Possessed.

**Galas**

I don't find Possessed that terrible, is just like, why bother having Khorne Berzerkers?

**ListenToMeWarriors**

Red_Five wrote:
H.B.M.C. wrote:
Galef wrote:
Of course the Oblits we have seen are monopose just for the Shadow Spear box. But it would be stupid of GW not to include Mutilators in the INEVITABLE solo, multi-part kit that we are referencing.
Why are we assuming that any of these kits are mono-pose starter minis?

I am not sure if these will be "real" kits or "push fit" kits. Regardless, they will all be mono-pose. That is pretty much all GW does now-a-days.

Only one way to settle it (well, not really) a poll! https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/771217.page

**Kirasu**

Galas wrote:
I don't find Possessed that terrible, is just like, why bother having Khorne Berzerkers?

Come on, seriously? Berserkers fight twice and always have 3 attacks where as possessed might only have 1. They're awful for their points and have been for pretty much every codex. Almost no melee in csm is great tho beyond the characters

**Slayer-Fan123**

Kirasu wrote:
Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Not Online!!! wrote:
Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Galef wrote:
GoatboyBeta wrote:
Nah all the battle boxes so far have contained the full retail kits. The new Oblits may effectively be monopose. But whatever is in the Darkspear box is what will appear on the shelves when they get a separate release.

True. Let's hope that the Oblits in the box are indeed dual-kit Mutilators. Even if "monopose" for the Oblits themselves, is wouldn't be hard to make the guns optional and have arm-swaps to be "monopose" Mutilators.

Mutilators aren't even good, but it's just too logical to make them use the same base model as Oblits. Also gets rid of more Finecast

-

Mutilators are passable, possibly even okay, after Chapter Approved cut their cost even more.

Until you realise that they have m4

Meh. Once they make a charge and they're in the thick of it, you're good for further combat. The low cost of opportunity is a pretty good deal for what they can do.

They're one of the worst units in the book for 3 editions now. Just because they made a charge once and killed some tactical marines doesn't mean they're not terrible. The only thing worse than Mutilators are maybe Possessed.

I don't disagree they were garbage for 6th-7th, but since this last Chapter Approved they have a great low cost of opportunity.

**EnTyme**

I get serious "comic book Bane" vibe from that Oblit.

**highlord tamburlaine**

Those obliterators might be a good source of extra stormfiend bodies for skaven...

**GaroRobe**

https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/b694e714c477b34972b9a763bbd7117070e685403d5095293edfaa43a3f9e061.jpg?w=800&h=540

Probably already mentioned, but you can see the new "antennae" Reiver on the left.

**H.B.M.C.**

Galas wrote:
I don't expect much possability from a kit like Obliterators. Those flesh arms and legs, and those weapons... I can see variety in equipement, but not that much in pose.

I don't either. I mean, even with the last ones the variations came from where you stuck the guns. If they keep just that it'll be fine.

The real issue is if they're one per box, or three.

It's the CSMs that will be mono-pose like Primaris and Death Guard. That's the real shame.

Galas wrote:
But then I also tought that about the new Rock Trolls because they only show the same 3 models and then the kit actually comes with a good bunch of variety, much more than older kits like Minotaurs.

Eternal optimism reigns supreme? *laughs nervously*

**ListenToMeWarriors**

There are some definite CAD reused parts between the "new" bolter CSM and the ones we had in Blackstone Fortress, the bolter especially:

**Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl**

Not found of the new Obliterators, the old one were creepier with the flesh crawling out above the armor.

**Daedalus81**

Not Online!!! wrote:

Until you realise that they have m4

Eh. If you want to make them work you can - as renegade chapter. Then you can run and charge with them.

My problem is there is no taking more than 3 so putting effort into buffing them doesn't return much and I never know what they're going to do when they make it to combat. Charged a tank? S8 AP3? YES! Damage 1? Awww...

3 T5 2+/5++ wounds for 35 points is pretty fabulous though. If I could heal them with Temporal I'd run them all day long.

**casvalremdeikun**

Depending on the price in points of those Snipers, I will probably run two squads of three in my Crimson Fists. I imagine they will be less than 100 pts for the squad, but time will tell. I definitely like them. The Librarian is less of a definite for me. I wonder what the rest of the boxed set will consist of. As of right now, I have no vehicles in my entire army. Maybe there will be a vehicle for the Primaris?

**Pandabeer**

Ooh, reinforcements for my Death Guard and Space Puppies!

(yes, I know the CSM models will have to go in a separate detachment).

**Slayer-Fan123**

Formosa wrote:
Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Formosa wrote:
until they give possessed the same rules as gal vorbak, they will always be trash lol, so this new fella if he buffs them, well its like haarkom buffing raptors, a polished turd is still a turd.

They're not missing a lot of the rules Gal Vorbak have now though?

They are missing

options like special weapons, power weapons etc.
an extra wound since GV have two, they should have 3 for 40k, sarge would have 4
rending equiv
WS 2+
Str5
T5
Rage Equiv
native deep strike
stubborn equiv

Gal Vorbak are what possessed should be rather than the unreliable trash unit we have now that is overshadowed by every other choice.

LOL you're not serious are you? Let's break these down!
1. They already strike at S5 AP-2. That means no need for the option to buy Power Weapons, because are you really going to buy S6 or AP-3 on them for 4-5 points? Absolutely not.
2. Since they already strike at AP-2, Rending equivalents won't actually help a lot.
3. Gal Vorbak already cannot hit on a 2+ anyway, so you're complaining about nothing but the WS chart, which is a whole different discussion.
4. Uh they already have S5...
5. I'll grant you they don't have T5
6. Everyone in 8th lost extra attacks on the charge. If you want them back, use World Eaters.
7. Gal Vorbak can't charge after Deep Strike, so that doesn't make sense. Meanwhile Possessed have a 7" movement and can get the rerolling charges Banner. So that's not an issue.
8. They're already LD8 and morale doesn't matter.

So you're either complaining about 8th mechanics or you're complaining that you haven't actually seen the Possessed statline basically.

**streetsamurai**

I like the oblits. but i wouldn't have make their head the same as the chaos dreadnought,

I wasn't expecting much from thw tick based on the drawing, but it is a pretty cool mini.

Really love the master of possesion

**Wolf_in_Human_Shape**

Eagerly looking forward to their rules, and I really hope more than Black Legion get detachments in Vigilus 2. C'mon World Eaters and Word Bearers!

**Slayer-Fan123**

Word Bearers need the most help for sure. At least if morale mattered Night Lords would have a purpose.

**Ragnar Blackmane**

Power-armored Space Marine camo scouts.
Just... why ...

**Formosa**

**Drudge Dreadnought**

Formosa wrote:
LOL you're not serious are you? Let's break these down!
1. They already strike at S5 AP-2. That means no need for the option to buy Power Weapons, because are you really going to buy S6 or AP-3 on them for 4-5 points? Absolutely not.
2. Since they already strike at AP-2, Rending equivalents won't actually help a lot.
3. Gal Vorbak already cannot hit on a 2+ anyway, so you're complaining about nothing but the WS chart, which is a whole different discussion.
4. Uh they already have S5...
5. I'll grant you they don't have T5
6. Everyone in 8th lost extra attacks on the charge. If you want them back, use World Eaters.
7. Gal Vorbak can't charge after Deep Strike, so that doesn't make sense. Meanwhile Possessed have a 7" movement and can get the rerolling charges Banner. So that's not an issue.
8. They're already LD8 and morale doesn't matter.

So you're either complaining about 8th mechanics or you're complaining that you haven't actually seen the Possessed statline basically.

1: Power weapons, power fists etc. they lack any of these options at all, they also lack special weapons.
2: Rending equiv would be ap -3/4 this makes a big difference
3: they are WS 5, this translates to WS 2+, so yes this should be taken into account for a dedicated close combat unit with some firepower as back up as above
4: Str5 AND T5
6: I dont care everyone lost attacks, I want a unit made for close combat to have more attacks and compete with bezerkers
7: Gal vorbak cant, but possessed could, its another option that possessed should have.
8: they should be fearless in 40k
9: and they should have 3 wounds

Nope I am complaining that this crap unit that should be easily top or top 2 for close combat units in the codex has be awful for at least 3 editions, your statues quo keeps them crap, my radical change makes them worth taking, but hey, looks like GW might be taking another swing at them so this may be moot.

WS 5 is 3+, not 2+.

**Breotan**

Chaos? Are you sure about that? This guy looks like a cross between a Tyranid and a Sleestak.

Is this supposed to be Alf? Or some sort of mutant tapir?

Obi Wan wearing a button down shirt over his power armor? How very dapper.

HA! I knew this was Scout armor. The gap in the shin armor still looks dumb.

This is such an amazing improvement.