Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Hi
On Saturday I am playing a 2K game against an ork player who is very good. I havent played against orks since 1st edition. This player has 5K to choose from, and can field lots of options, but he likes his boys, and burna boys.

I am playing Dark Angel, and have all options available to me.

So please can the forum help.

What army are you going to use? Do you know what he has in his army?

Hi
God I am such a noob, forgot to say I am a Dark Angel player.

What doesn't he have. I know he has boys, trukks, dreads, and death dreads, trouble is he has over 5K of army to choose from.

I am unsure what to field so hoping for advice.

Dark Angels tend to be pure terminators or bikes or a mixture.
Pure terminator lists carry a lot of missiles so you can frag orks to death, though I would recommend lighting claws to improve their chances in cc.
Pure Bike army shouldn't be too bad against orks either but in general is less competitive.

What do you have to work with for Dark Angels?

Orks generally aren't a very strong codex.....then again neither are Dark Angels. If you build a balanced take-all-comers style list, you should easily be on even (or better) footing from a list-building perspective. From there it'll all be the terrain, deployment, and how you play.

Nungunz wrote:Orks generally aren't a very strong codex.....

CHALLENGE!

Honestly, I beg to differ. Orks are still a strong Codex, built correctly. You can't throw in many random things and are forced to spam the good units, but many of them are still viable. I play against a variety of players, almost all of whom are veteran players, and have been playing longer than I have, and I table them. If Orks are a weaker Codex, then I fear with what I could do using a strong or OP one.

What you're facing is an extremely powerful mass of 6 pt models that are extremely choppy. The question is whether he's foot slogging or mechanized.

I am not very familiar with DA's, but I've tabled Deathwing....I'd suggest not going that route. If you do take termies, I'd suggest cyclones and LC's. Blast and can opening, and weapons that let you attack on initiative rather than after the boyz.

Make sure you have some lascannons and/or meltas to open transports and walkers.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
You'll need damage output to handle Orks....because they spam so many attacks, you'll want to deny them the charge as well. If he takes transports, first order is trying to explode them. That alone will kill almost 1/3 of regular boyz.

Post deleted.

Nungunz wrote:What do you have to work with for Dark Angels?

Orks generally aren't a very strong codex.....then again neither are Dark Angels. If you build a balanced take-all-comers style list, you should easily be on even (or better) footing from a list-building perspective. From there it'll all be the terrain, deployment, and how you play.

Hi
Can field 30 terminators 10 of those lightning claws, 25 assault marines, 60 tactical marines 20 devasators.

Can't field many bikes just one squad, with attack bike.

3 Dreads assault cannon, 4 land raiders, 2 normal, 2 crusaders. 2 Predators autocannon and bolters, and 2 vindicators.

Do you have model to use as Belial?

I would go termies and vindicators, then dreads.
Assault marines, tactical marines, and dev. squads all lack something.
A single landraider may be good if you do not have enough missile launcher termies.

those Autobolter preds are worth their weight in gold against orks

spam missles and heavy bolters

and as alwyas make him come to you

Nungunz wrote:Orks generally aren't a very strong codex.....

I would have to disagree as well. I think Orks have a very well built codex that is not over powered liek the codexes you see today. They have hard hitting squads that can deal with most things out there. They have one of the best synergies in all the codexes, IMHO anyways.

My Kan wall list is pretty well undefeated.

Now as far as going against DA's. Well I play them as well. I feel Termintors would get over whelmed. But the is something that can be said about all the CML's that can be thrown at the boys. Coupled with some vindicators to deal with blocks of troops. I might even take a crusader to help with firepower. Speeders with TML's would add to the missles fire that you can throw at them. Lc's for sure on the terminators. Maybe one TH/SS to soak up the Nobs PK attacks. Belials squad with banner is a must with everyone getting an extra attack. All this will help against mech, or kan wall pretty well too.

Orks have a very strong codex if built properly I wouldnt go with a very terminator heavy list in my experience an SM gunline list does great against orks its unfortunate that you dont have access to the thunderfire cannon (IMO the best Heavy in Codex SM)

Company Master w/ pW, PP
Command Squad all plasma in a razorback

3 Tactical Squads in Razor back combat squaded with the other 5 in the back with a heavy weapon ML or HB

3 seperate squads of Land Speeders with Typhoon ML

LR crusader with 5 Termies in it Combination of Lightning claws and TH SS

Dreadnought Assault Cannon and ML

2K points and you have enough fire power to take out cans and ork mobs

That last list doesn't look like a DA codex, otherwise the list is pricey.

If you have CML and lighting claws then termies will be fine against orks. You can bring so many frags.
Orks in particular can not touch av14 really, so raiders will be autowin.

Finally I have to say what do you mean by very strong? Orks are not on the same level as any 5th edition codex, 'nids and SoB do not count.
Then Black templar gunline and Deathwing are stronger builds than anything orks can bring.
You can call orks strong codex as it is next in line after 5th edition codex.

I disagree. Orks win against Deathwing all the time where I am. they just get overwhelmed. Black templars does anyone even play them anymore? The one plaayer that we had stopped and went to regular marines as he was losing constantly. No they are not tier one list by all means. Having the right player can change that. Which I feel is the biggest drawback for Ork armies in particular. Most Ork player are either Kids or the adults that play for fun. The win at all cost players don't like Orks because they can only win by lists not tactics. IMHO.

balsak_da_mighty wrote:I disagree. Orks win against Deathwing all the time where I am. they just get overwhelmed. Black templars does anyone even play them anymore? The one plaayer that we had stopped and went to regular marines as he was losing constantly. No they are not tier one list by all means. Having the right player can change that. Which I feel is the biggest drawback for Ork armies in particular. Most Ork player are either Kids or the adults that play for fun. The win at all cost players don't like Orks because they can only win by lists not tactics. IMHO.

I second that closing notion. And a lot of Ork players might play less competitively because...well, we tend to be less serious. Certainly not a blanket statement though.

Challenge

Who did you table. If the guys whom you table are just casual newbies, then it doesnt mean anything.

Orks is not a terrible codex, but is definitely not a strong codex (compared to half the codexes that are new out there) anymore.

Taurinus noted that the players he faces are veterans for the most part. And comparing the Ork codex to half the ones out there? The only codex I have trouble against is GK. I wouldn't let your perception of the people you play around influence your opinion of how strong a codex is. The only way to guage the strength of a codex is to play that army, and compare it to other armies you play yourself and play against.

I tell you the basic BS everyone will tell you about defeating Orks then tell some of the things they struggle against.

Things that don't work

Flamers! Good Ork players are not scared of flamers. If your closing in on my Orks to flame me I get all kinda of excited. Small blast templates! One or two don't scare me once you find that perfect shot to hit three or four I remove those ones as casualties so you can only two maybe three.

Things that do work

Large blast templates! It's hard to scatter your Orks out when that 5" blast gets thrown around, just understand your only gunna get two to three turns before your up too your eyeballs in green. Terminators with Lighting Claws! These guys will dice any size squad of boyz. Land Raiders Crusaders! Orks have a hell of a time killing Land Raiders and the Crusader can throw enuff shots to hurt mobs of boyz. Dreadnoughts! Orks have a hard time taking down Dreads in close combat, with the exception of Warbosses, yes we have a Nob with a power klaw but the odds killing the dread are low, bu tunderstand the dreads not gunna slaughter Orks it's just gunna tie them up a bit.

Hope this helps.

Magnamaniac wrote:
Can field 30 terminators 10 of those lightning claws, 25 assault marines, 60 tactical marines 20 devasators.

Can't field many bikes just one squad, with attack bike.

3 Dreads assault cannon, 4 land raiders, 2 normal, 2 crusaders. 2 Predators autocannon and bolters, and 2 vindicators.

This is what I would do if I were you. First of all, repeat after me. Green is just a color. You can play whaterver codex you like. Just use them counts-as for whatever you want to do.

SW Grey Hunters
Play a counts-as and run a space wolf list. Go with 60 grey hunters and 3 long fang squads. Put a terminator wolf guard with terminator armor in every squad.
Grey hunters are annoyingly hard to kill in assault. With counter attack and an extra hand weapon, they deliver so many STR 4 attacks that they can cause major problems for orks. If you want to be a dooche, play with 2 flamers per wolf guard squad. Otherwise go with the melta or PG options. Put a wolf standard in every squad.
Long fangs are excellent units for taking down light transports or lootas. These can really be your go-to unit to take down those.
Bring a beat face character to handle Ghazz.
Run this all as a foot army. Point for point, orks just can't take down grey hunters in that fashion.

LR Spam
Unless the Orks loaded up on deffrollas, he would have a hard time with LR spam. If you bring 4 land raiders, he just wont be able to handle it well.
You can use any codex you like for this -- it wont matter. What matters is that he cant take down your LRs easily.

^ boring.

We all know that Wolves are good. Why does he have to pretend that his DA's are DA's. Play them as DA's They can still win. They are not that bad.

DW can and does beat orks it simply takes the right game plan and shooty units.

Land Raider Crusaders chew up orks as do dakka preds, 4 hb devs, and any other shooty unit the key is stay out of assault. Also whirlwinds have a use against Green tide. This is all unless you facing BW and trukk kFF spam in which case load up the missiles(unless you have a chaplain and lightning claw terms. with their combined abilities on the charge you win first round 13 to 1 )

Also as a fluff player never use DA as counts as SW's just eww.

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/451616.page

This is a SW foot list that I'm planning on building, as I have 80% of the pieces I require to build it.
This list would cause a huge amount of trouble to orks and you have all the required pieces to build it.

Disagree. I table SW all the time. Long Fang spam, np. GH spam, NP. If you want to throw LR's into the mix, it's okay, because between 4-5 deffrollas supported by my KFF's, I make it there. Either way, SW's are widely accepted as an OP Codex. Don't change your 'dex just because of that. I started back into 40k and 5th ed choosing Orks for fluff and because I didn't need an excuse to fight anyone, it had nothing to do with how strong or competitive the Codex was.

You can make winning lists out of any Codex out there(though Chaos Daemons looks like it'd be difficult). Find the strengths of the units, and exploit them. Minimize your weaknesses and try to deny your opponent to take advantage of them....it's the basics of strategy. Orks don't have much good long range fire support/artillery. Subsequently, I don't field boomwagon unless I'm screwing around, because they're overpriced for what they bing to the table.

I still really advise against Deathwing. A balance of LC's and a couple TH/SS with a Cyclone in a LR Crusader would do pretty well, but if your whole list is terminators then you'll be swarmed. It'll be a glorious end, but an end, nevertheless.

Either way, I don't know the DA Codex very well. Tactics: Deny him the charge. If he's using transports, pop then(I know....duh) because the explosions will kill just under 1/3 of the boyz inside. Make him come to you.