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ok, had a debate last night, that I would love some input on..

a str 5 empire general is attacking a dreadlod with pendant, does the pendant still work

runefang for all those who dont know , basically says if it hits it wounds.

my opponent was saying that there is no str attached to the attack that the pendant would not work vs runefang

my argument was that even though the weapon says if he hits , he still wounds at a str 5, so i would still get a reverse 5 down ward.

please give me some insight on this

As far as I know, most close combat weapons do not list a strength, they use the wielder's - although they may modify that value.
Also, that weapon specifies only that it ignores armour saves.

So, yes. I think you read it correctly.

It may auto-wound, but the strength value of the attack is still 5.

If he's claiming that there's no strength involved in his weapon, tell him you're taking an unmodified armor save.

Where a Str value or modifier is NOT present on a weapon, the base Str of the wielder would be used as reference for ALL things that are based on Str, including the Wound chart, and in this case the reverse ward save.

The way to explain to your opponent is this:
The runefang is hitting on S5, but it autowounds. It also negates armor, however has no effect on ward saves. The Pendant is then giving a ward save based on the S5 that the general has.

There is no argument against this. Very few weapons say that they hit at a specific Str that negates the wielders Str. Most have modifiers that add to that Str.

A Great Weapon doesn't hit at S2. It hits at base Str+2, therefore a runefang hits at base Str+0, auto wounding and ignoring armor.

All hits, even those that auto wound, have to have Str applied to them. In some cases the Str is ignored for purposes of wounding(poison, runefangs etc), but the weapon itself will ALWAYS have a Str, even if it is just the base Str of the user.

Waitwaitwaitwaitwait. Hang on a minute....aren't all Empire characters str4 or less? How did that general get an extra point of Str?

Plus, I think you would get the reverse strength ward save because that would be the to Wound roll he woud make with his Str vs your Toughness.

Regardless of weither ir rolls to wound or not the attack has a streinght, as such all the rules for the pendant apply.

Runefangs wound automatically, but that doesnt mean you have no strength behind the attack - it is still a S4 attack, so you save on 4-

Thank guys, i might have been wrong on what his general str was, but that is besides that pooint i was trying to ask, i apprecaite everyone's input on this, My opponent is a good friend of mine and it was not a heated debate, I just wanted some clarification on it

The only real time a wound will be caused without a Str value will be abilities/spells that flat out cause wounds, like Snipe spells from the Lore of Death. They cause hits that wound on a specific value with no armor saves allowed, as no strength is mentioned you wouldn't get the PoK against them.

And lore of metal.

Also Banshee/Tghiest screams

So casket of souls as well then.

Grey Templar wrote:The only real time a wound will be caused without a Str value will be abilities/spells that flat out cause wounds, like Snipe spells from the Lore of Death. They cause hits that wound on a specific value with no armor saves allowed, as no strength is mentioned you wouldn't get the PoK against them.

Giants...

even though they are Str6 I would say a lot of their abilities are irrespective of strength, and some are at multiple strengths.

Well, the giant attacks in question either remove models from play or do a hit with a Str value. Of course its unlikely the Dreadlord would fail to wound the giant with his one free attack.

Grey Templar wrote: Of course its unlikely the Dreadlord would fail to wound the giant with his one free attack.

Tell that to the giant that shoved my vamp lord in his sack

We all roll 1s sometimes.

The best thing is when my giant stuffed an Etherial Slann down his pants