IG help against DE

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**jjakaalbinoboy**

Hey folks, having trouble defeating my mates DE, they're fast and make it into shooting range T1/2, disembark an tear my guardsmen apart in CC. I've heard advice that I need more armour and Hydras?

**Painbiro**

Pretty much. You can;t get past the FF 5++, but you can ignore their cover. Spam autocannons and assault cannons, as the paper planes hate them. Lascannons are way overkill. Lances are surprisingly ineffective at killing AV11-12 vehicles, so lots of Chimeras will do it everytime.

**evilbishop**

Hey,

Chimera's are your friend. The Multilaser is perfect for knocking skimmers out of the air, and the Heavy Flamer will roast any squad you can catch with it; and they're really cheap.

If you're getting beaten up in CC, why not try a combined squad with commissar and a few power weapons? 30+ infantry that are Stubborn Ld9 will take a long time for most DE squads to chew through and you should be able to do decent damage back. Use the combined squad to shield your Hydra's/Armour from assault and keep them shooting.

**jjakaalbinoboy**

He can cross the table into melee in one or maybe if im lucky two turns, a) that doesnt give me much time to take down his transports/armour an b) even if I do it makes little difference when he can do it on foot haha. I'm going to add in a Manticore and Hydra and mount up my foot sloggers in chimera and see if it helps.

So to clear a few things up (that I intentional left vague in my initial post as I wanted diverse responses) was that we usually play 1500-2000 points on a random terrain board thats a pretty average size, long edge to long edge. Also, price/cost of the models and the fact I have to go FW (slightly frustrating) or convert certain ones such as Hydras is not an issue. Althought having 4-6 Hydras seems a bit extreme lol.

My DE opponent usually goes wyches and warriors with archon an incubi in raiders with ravager support. If he feels like some CC he brings a Talos and Grotesque for fun.

Normally I go footslogger with 2 Infantry Platoons with CCS, plasma weapons an AC HWS. Then storm troopers with plasma, plasma sentinels (amazing at tighing up a CC unit that cant hurt it haha) and a leman russ of some sort for Heavy support.

I'm thinking of switching from Infantry Platoons to Veteran Squads mounted in Chimera, with Hydras, Manticore and Leman Russ for Heavy Support, Sentintels for Fast Attack, small storm trooper squads with plasma to reserve/deep strike as and when needed.

I've had some success with my Valkyrie with Storm Troopers in as it can swoop in drop them where needed such as an objective and then use its lascannon to take out transports.

**lampy**

Yup Chimeras are very handy.

I run an infantry heavy list and find that rather than big blob squads smaller but numerous infantry squads can also work well. Sure you may lose a squad or 3 to cc attack but the enemy find themselves hopefully shot to pieces by the rest and the heavy weapons.

**Nagashek**

The best thing to remember, even in a footlist, is that even once he hits CC, he is too good at combat. The first unit he hits will die. Since he can't consolidate into a new unit, you can FRFSRF into the newly unengaged unit and roast them. Even with FNP, those wyches will burn.

The Incubi will take a bit more, but even S6 AP>3 are worthwhile, as every failed 3+ save means a dead incubi, regardless of FNP due to their average toughness.

The hard part is spacing that many units to avoid him hitting 2+ infantry squads with each unit of Wyches. Just be sure to drop the CC units' transports first, since they seem to be doing more damage to you than the Ravagers.

His list actually sounds fairly friendly (as far as DE are concerned) as you haven't mentioned Venoms. If he had them he'd never even need to engage in CC: the Venoms would wipe your squads off the board before he got close.

Cripple a DE's mobility, and he's just an overcosted guardsman.

**Ailaros**

Yes, more autocannons is a good idea here.

However, as people are alluding to, you've got to fix up your troops choices more. Chimeras will give them up to one free turn of shooting out of close combat, and commissars in your infantry squads combined together around sergeants with power weapons will cause your opponent's flimsy DE units to hit your guardsmen like a brick wall in close combat. A couple of things will still be nasty (like wyches), but those can be shot down before they arrive.

**jjakaalbinoboy**

OK, army list so far . . .

HQ: Company Command Squad (305 pts)
. . 4 Company Command Squad, (Medi-pack; Plasma gun x3)
. . . . 1 Company Commander (Plasma Pistol)
. . . . [b]1 Astropath
. . . . 1 Bodyguard
. . . . 1 Bodyguard
. . . . 1 Master of Ordnance
. . . . 1 Chimera (Turret Multi-Laser; Hull Heavy Flamer; Extra Armor; Pintle Storm Bolter)

Troops: Infantry Platoon (655 pts)
. . 1 Infantry Platoon
. . . . 4 Platoon Command Squad (Medi-pack; Plasma gun x3)
. . . . . . 1 Platoon Commander (Plasma Pistol)
. . . . . . 1 Chimera (Turret Multi-Laser; Hull Heavy Flamer; Extra Armor; Pintle Storm Bolter)
. . . . 9 Infantry Squad (Plasma gun x1)
. . . . . . 1 Sergeant (Plasma Pistol)
. . . . . . 1 Chimera (Turret Multi-Laser; Hull Heavy Flamer; Extra Armor; Pintle Storm Bolter)
. . . . 9 Infantry Squad (Plasma gun x1)
. . . . . . 1 Sergeant (Plasma Pistol)
. . . . . . 1 Chimera (Turret Multi-Laser; Hull Heavy Flamer; Extra Armor; Pintle Storm Bolter)
. . . . 3 Heavy Weapons Squad (Autocannon x3)
. . . . 3 Heavy Weapons Squad (Autocannon x3)

Troops: Veteran Squad (215 pts)
. . 7 Veteran Squad (Plasma gun x3)
. . . . 1 Veteran Heavy Weapon Team (Autocannon)
. . . . 1 Veteran Sergeant (Plasma Pistol)
. . . . 1 Chimera (Turret Multi-Laser; Hull Heavy Flamer; Extra Armor; Pintle Storm Bolter)

Fast Attack: Armoured Sentinel Squadron (225 pts)
. . 1 Armoured Sentinel Squadron
. . . . 1 Armoured Sentinel (Plasma Cannon)
. . . . 1 Armoured Sentinel (Plasma Cannon)
. . . . 1 Armoured Sentinel (Plasma Cannon)

Heavy Support: Hydra Flak Tank Battery (130 pts)
. . 1 Hydra Flak Tank Battery
. . . . 1 Hydra Flak Tank (Heavy Bolter; Camo Netting; Extra Armor; Hunter-killer Missile; Pintle Heavy Stubber)

Heavy Support: Leman Russ Squadron (210 pts)
. . 1 Leman Russ Squadron
. . . . 1 Leman Russ Battle Tank (Lascannon; Heavy Bolter Sponsons x2; Extra Armor; Pintle Storm Bolter)

Heavy Support: Manticore Rocket Launcher (215 pts)
. . 1 Manticore Rocket Launcher (Hull Heavy Bolter; Camo Netting; Extra Armor; Pintle Storm Bolter)

Total Roster Cost: 1,955 pts

Thoughts? Feedback? Got 45pts to play with, was wondering if I should take the Chimera off the two Infantry Squads in the Platoon and buy another Veteran Squad in Chimera? Then I could use the two footslogger squads as bubble wrap?

**Ailaros**

Aaaaaah! Army builder program! MY EYES!

2000 Pts - Imperial Guard Roster

CCS - Medi-pack, 3x Plasma, plasma pistol, 2x bodyguards, astropath, chimera with EA, storm bolter

PCS - Medi-pack, 3x Plasma, plasma pistol, chimera with EA, storm bolter
PIS - plasma, plasma pistol, chimera with EA, storm bolter
PIS - plasma, plasma pistol, chimera with EA, storm bolter
HWS - 3x autocannon
HWS - 3x autocannon

Vets - 3x plasma, autocannon, plasma pistol, krak grenades, chimera with EA, storm bolter

3x armored sentinel squad - 3x plasma cannons

Hydra - stubber, camo netting, EA, HK missile
LRBT - HLC, sponson bolters, EA, storm bolter
Manticore - camo netting, EA, storm bolter

Phew, now I finally know what you're actually bringing. What you're actually bringing is a 1,500 point list that you've desperately up-costed to play 2,000 point games. That you've only managed to bring two troops choices to a 2,000 point game is an abomination made possible by way, way too many points spent on way, way too useless upgrades.

Start by getting rid of every upgrade that includes the word "armor" (including "armored sentinels"), and then get rid of every upgrade that contains the word "plasma" (that isn't immediately followed by "gun").

... actually, get rid of all your upgrades, put the hull lascannon back on the russ, and the plasma guns in the list. Ditch the sentinels altogether. This gives you back the 765 points you spent on bloat (so, really it's a 1250 point list that's competing at a 2000 point level). Reinvest those points in more units and more weapons. If you don't have the models to do this then insist on playing 1000 or 1250 point games until you do have the models to play successfully at that point level.

**Exergy**

so you are having trouble beating DE with the codex DE have the most troulbe with?

Lots of Chimeras, I mean lots. Spam 10 of them and DE dont have much of a chance.

**Veritek83**

I'm personally a pretty big fan of the Hellhound against DE. The Str. 6 template will insta-kill most of the multi-wound characters(Haemonculi the notable exception in my experience) the DE can bring and being a template it'll negate cover saves, including that moving fast business.

I still remember the look on my friend's face when he sped across the board, plopping 3 raiders in a nice cluster in front of my lines, confident that the cover save would get him through a single turn of grenade launcher fire, followed by my Hellhound speeding around a building and just being in range to hit all three with the template. Sure it's only a 50-50 chance to glance, but when you can hit more than one...

**Barksdale**

Ailaros wrote:

... actually, get rid of all your upgrades, put the hull lascannon back on the russ, and the plasma guns in the list. Ditch the sentinels altogether. This gives you back the 765 points you spent on bloat (so, really it's a 1250 point list that's competing at a 2000 point level). Reinvest those points in more units and more weapons. If you don't have the models to do this then insist on playing 1000 or 1250 point games until you do have the models to play successfully at that point level.

My advice exactly.

**Kasrkin229**

jjakaalbinoboy wrote:OK, army list so far . . .

2000 Pts - Imperial Guard Roster

HQ: Company Command Squad (10#, 305 pts)
. . 4 Company Command Squad, 305 pts (Unit Type: Infantry; Flak Armour; Frag Grenades; Close Combat Weapon x4; Lasgun x1; Medi-pack; Plasma gun x3)
. . . . 1 Company Commander (Flak Armour; Frag Grenades; Refractor Field; Close Combat Weapon; Plasma Pistol; Senior Officer)
. . . . 1 Astropath (Flak Armour; Frag Grenades; Close Combat Weapon; Laspistol; Telepathic Relay)
. . . . 1 Bodyguard (Flak Armour; Frag Grenades; Close Combat Weapon; Laspistol; Look out - Arghh!)
. . . . 1 Bodyguard (Flak Armour; Frag Grenades; Close Combat Weapon; Laspistol; Look out - Arghh!)
. . . . 1 Master of Ordnance (Flak Armour; Frag Grenades; Close Combat Weapon; Laspistol; Artillery Bombardment)
. . . . 1 Chimera (Unit Type: Vehicle (Tank); Searchlight; Smoke Launchers; Turret Multi-Laser; Heavy Flamer; Extra Armor; Pintle Storm Bolter; Amphibious; Mobile Command Vehicle)

Troops: Infantry Platoon (34#, 655 pts)
. . 1 Infantry Platoon, 655 pts
. . . . 4 Platoon Command Squad (Unit Type: Infantry; Flak Armour; Frag Grenades; Close Combat Weapon x4; Lasgun x1; Medi-pack; Plasma gun x3)
. . . . . . 1 Platoon Commander (Flak Armour; Frag Grenades; Close Combat Weapon; Plasma Pistol; Junior Officer)
. . . . . . 1 Chimera (Unit Type: Vehicle (Tank); Searchlight; Smoke Launchers; Turret Multi-Laser; Heavy Flamer; Extra Armor; Pintle Storm Bolter; Amphibious; Mobile Command Vehicle)
. . . . 9 Infantry Squad (Unit Type: Infantry; Frag Grenades; Close Combat Weapon x9; Flak Armour; Lasgun x8; Plasma gun x1; Combined Squad)
. . . . . . 1 Sergeant (Flak Armour; Frag Grenades; Close Combat Weapon; Plasma Pistol)
. . . . . . 1 Chimera (Unit Type: Vehicle (Tank); Searchlight; Smoke Launchers; Turret Multi-Laser; Heavy Flamer; Extra Armor; Pintle Storm Bolter; Amphibious; Mobile Command Vehicle)
. . . . 9 Infantry Squad (Unit Type: Infantry; Frag Grenades; Close Combat Weapon x9; Flak Armour; Lasgun x8; Plasma gun x1; Combined Squad)
. . . . . . 1 Sergeant (Flak Armour; Frag Grenades; Close Combat Weapon; Plasma Pistol)
. . . . . . 1 Chimera (Unit Type: Vehicle (Tank); Searchlight; Smoke Launchers; Turret Multi-Laser; Heavy Flamer; Extra Armor; Pintle Storm Bolter; Amphibious; Mobile Command Vehicle)
. . . . 3 Heavy Weapons Squad (Unit Type: Infantry; Frag Grenades; Close Combat Weapon x3; Flak Armour; Lasgun x3; Autocannon x3)
. . . . 3 Heavy Weapons Squad (Unit Type: Infantry; Frag Grenades; Close Combat Weapon x3; Flak Armour; Lasgun x3; Autocannon x3)

Troops: Veteran Squad (11#, 215 pts)
. . 7 Veteran Squad, 215 pts (Unit Type: Infantry; Flak Armour; Frag Grenades; Krak Grenades; Close Combat Weapon x7; Lasgun x4; Plasma gun x3)
. . . . 1 Veteran Heavy Weapon Team (Autocannon; Frag Grenades; Close Combat Weapon x1; Flak Armour; Lasgun x1; Krak Grenades)
. . . . 1 Veteran Sergeant (Flak Armour; Frag Grenades; Krak Grenades; Close Combat Weapon; Plasma Pistol)
. . . . 1 Chimera (Unit Type: Vehicle (Tank); Searchlight; Smoke Launchers; Turret Multi-Laser; Heavy Flamer; Extra Armor; Pintle Storm Bolter; Amphibious; Mobile Command Vehicle)

Fast Attack: Armoured Sentinel Squadron (3#, 225 pts)
. . 1 Armoured Sentinel Squadron, 225 pts
. . . . 1 Armoured Sentinel (Unit Type: Vehicle (Walker); Extra Armor; Plasma Cannon)
. . . . 1 Armoured Sentinel (Unit Type: Vehicle (Walker); Extra Armor; Plasma Cannon)
. . . . 1 Armoured Sentinel (Unit Type: Vehicle (Walker); Extra Armor; Plasma Cannon)

Heavy Support: Hydra Flak Tank Battery (1#, 130 pts)
. . 1 Hydra Flak Tank Battery, 130 pts
. . . . 1 Hydra Flak Tank (Unit Type: Vehicle (Tank); Auto-targeting System; Heavy Bolter; Searchlight; Smoke Launchers; Twin-Linked Hydra Autocannons x2; Camo Netting; Extra Armor; Hunter-killer Missile; Pintle Heavy Stubber)

Heavy Support: Leman Russ Squadron (1#, 210 pts)
. . 1 Leman Russ Squadron, 210 pts
. . . . 1 Leman Russ Battle Tank (Unit Type: Vehicle (Tank); Battle Cannon; Searchlight; Smoke Launchers; Lascannon; Heavy Bolter Sponsons x2; Extra Armor; Pintle Storm Bolter; Lumbering Behemoth)

Heavy Support: Manticore Rocket Launcher (1#, 215 pts)
. . 1 Manticore Rocket Launcher, 215 pts (Unit Type: Vehicle (Tank); Storm Eagle Rockets; Heavy Bolter; Searchlight; Smoke Launchers; Camo Netting; Extra Armor; Pintle Storm Bolter; Limited Ammunition)

Validation Report:
c-1. File Version: 1.46 For Bug Reports/www.ab40k.org; 1. Guard Regiments: Imperial Guard (5th); a-1. Scenario: Normal Mission
Roster satisfies all enforced validation rules

Composition Report:
HQ: 1 (1 - 2)
Elite: 0 (0 - 3)
Troops: 2 (2 - 6)
Fast: 1 (0 - 3)
Heavy: 3 (0 - 3)

Total Roster Cost: 1955

Thoughts? Feedback? Got 45pts to play with, was wondering if I should take the Chimera off the two Infantry Squads in the Platoon and buy another Veteran Squad in Chimera? Then I could use the two footslogger squads as bubble wrap?

Holy gak Jose , WAY TO MANY UPGRADES ON CHIMERAS , only upgrades i take on mine are Pintle and HK missile , same with the Leman Russ , drop all of those upgrades on it , keep the sponsons , if you were to wipe all of those excess upgrades you could bring in another Russ . Drop the Third Plasma Gun on the vet squads , you only need 2 to make the Vet squad extremely Lethal , Try to get carapace on them if you can . if you have the Hydra you don't need guard with Autocannons , Those There autocannons you have on your line infantry could be better used as for AT weapons or flamers , give your guys Missile Launchers then give them the Order " Bring it Down " then roll away at his skimmers . Problem with your list is taht you have WAY to many upgrades on some vehicales , drop the MAnticore and bring another Russi f you can , PROXY my friend it's an amazing thing , or barrow from a friend

**Farseer Mael Dannan**

Hydra-Flak!!!!!!

**Orkimedes1000**

i was suprised nobody mentioned the leman russ punisher, w/ x3 h.bolters upgrades optional, in unit of 3 can make virtually any army cringe with sheer (yet short ranged, but this doesn't really matter against DE) Firepower with a combined:gatling cannon Range 24" str 5 ap- heavy 20 + heavy bolter range 36" str 5 ap4 heavy 3, that gives 20 shots against rank and file, and 9 shots against armoured infantry (like characters) x3 of them 87 shots a turn if not moved. pretty scary but also pricy @ 660pts (or 220 each. no upgrades beside h.bolter sponsons)

A mate of mine used to play DE, but if the exterminator was out i would have used that instead to create a heavy 13 tank capable of terminating terminators

**Veritek83**

Not in front of my book right now but isn't the Exterminator the tlAC variant? The Executioner is plasma IIRC. In either case the ac turret with 3x bb will eat DE though I'm not sold price wise vs. the Hydra.

**alarmingrick**

Veritek83 wrote:Not in front of my book right now but isn't the Exterminator the tlAC variant? The Executioner is plasma IIRC. In either case the ac turret with 3x bb will eat DE though I'm not sold price wise vs. the Hydra.

You are correct! Either would be better than a Punisher, IMHO. Then again I'm biased against them.

**Orkimedes1000**

I agree but against hordes of infantry a punisher is a great weapon..

**Ailaros**

Orkimedes1000 wrote:I agree but against hordes of infantry a punisher is a great weapon..

They're not, but I have to reluctantly label the punisher as a non-suck weapon in this particular case. Against AV10, it pens 1/3 of the time as the exterminator, but the punisher puts down about 10 hits to the exterminator's 3, so it actually evens out. However, DE also field AV11, which the punisher is suck-tastic against. On the other hand, all of those small, fragile wych and warrior squads that flop out are certainly going to care more about being shot at by a punisher than an exterminator.

I don't think it would be worth building a punisher just for this role, but it might be worth it to proxy.

**martin74**

To break it down the most easy way: You have to shoot the transports far away as possible. IG has two main things going for it when going against DE:

1. Long range weapons; autocannon, 48 in., Multi lasers, heavy bolters, main guns on Leman Russes.

2. Amount of fire power. Point for point, no other army can field the heavy weapons, amount of shots that the IG put out.

Concentrate on one raider at a time, once it goes down, go to the next one. Once the DE get into assault range, it is over with. All you can do is hope to slow them down with squad after squad. Blog squads with a commissar or two is what will win the game. They have more attacks, better assault weapons, and better initiative. You won't win in CC, all you can do is slow them down.

**Crimson-King2120**

Ogryns might be a good counter charge unit here especially for tarpitting wytchs as (correct me if im wrong ) they will need 6's to wound throw in a lord commie with a fist and watch those wytchs dissapear although as i said use them as a counter charge unit if they charge on their own they will get cut to pieces

**papathrax**

Orgyns aren't all that against DE - splinter weapons don't give a rats about T5. Unless of course you put them in a chimera and send it to meet them head on. Those ripper guns can take down raiders. Also, as there are no upgrades you can't do the wound allocation shenanigans that everybody holds dear to their heart.

If you have your heart set on Sentinels, drop the armoured and plasma gun bits, give them pretty much anything but a lascannon and outflank. If you take missile launchers, don't forget about the frag rockets! I did once... 3 shots into a squad of wyches for 1 dead. woopdefreakingdoo.

I've had a lot of success with basilisks with hhf against DE.... but I've had better with Hydra's - especially if he takes reavers.

As for the transports... you don't have to destroy them. Just stun/immobolise. Once they can't move (for that turn) they're no longer a primary threat (for that turn). I shoot at a transport until it can't move, then move on to the next. If I have AT still to fire, thats when you go for the kill.

When I play against DE, I usually take a squad or two of veterans with sniper rifles/GL, AC, and Fwd Sentries doctrine. One may or may not contain Harker, depending on points. I try to steer clear of heavy weapon squads as they're essentially free pain tokens - 6 wounds saved on a 5+ for a pain token? DE love that gak. Or stick them in a chimera - transport of 12 can fit 2 squads in, 5 teams of which can shoot - so you can save points by keeping a mortar.

For hvy support I stay away from the LR family, however. Paying too much for av:doesn'tmatter.... Griffons are a good substitute. Anything with a s6+ large blast is good.

of course, if you really want to be a jerk - Marbo, with some DS flamer and hvy flamer armed stormtroopers....actually, this is one army against which stormtroopers come into their own. Set them down and rapid fire into some Incubi...

**Ailaros**

papathrax wrote:Orgyns aren't all that against DE - splinter weapons don't give a rats about T5.

Sad, but true. DE are probably the worst army to field ogryn against. They can fire MASSIVE volleys of weapons that ignore your extra toughness, and ignore your armor saves. More importantly, they can field it for a LOT cheaper than your ogryns. A good sized ogryn posse costs about 350 points (with lord commissar), while 300 points buys you an awful lot of splinter shots per turn.

**Veritek83**

papathrax wrote:
If you have your heart set on Sentinels, drop the armoured and plasma gun bits, give them pretty much anything but a lascannon and outflank. If you take missile launchers, don't forget about the frag rockets! I did once... 3 shots into a squad of wyches for 1 dead. woopdefreakingdoo.

Second. My regular DE opponent likes to take a 20 man warrior squad to camp in his deployment zone and take pot shots with their darklances. Outflanking a HF Sentinel into them, roasting a few and then kicking their heads in assault while being functionally immune to his attacks back is tremendously satisfying.

**schadenfreude**

PBS do very well against DE.

Prime example 8 FNP wyches in cover and in your face. Their raider was exploded in your deployment zone lowering the squad size from 10 to 8, and they currently have a cover save. Normally that's real bad news for IG. Either the wyches run amok with haywire grenades, or a too much firepower is required to destroy 8 of them with cover and FNP, there is an entire rest of the DE army afterall.

Kill 1 more of them (total dead=3), lower leadership, watch them break, and run out of cover. Because they are in your face it's really easy to deny them the ability to reform on their turn. Watch them run out into the open with no cover ,kill 3 more of them, and the squad can't reform.

Against DE I find a pbs squad pretty reliably breaks 1 DE unit per turn.

**Ailaros**

schadenfreude wrote:Kill 1 more of them (total dead=3), lower leadership, watch them break, and run out of cover. Because they are in your face it's really easy to deny them the ability to reform on their turn. Watch them run out into the open with no cover ,kill 3 more of them, and the squad can't reform.

Or, instead of killing 1 more, you kill 4 more (which, if stuff is close enough for you to escort off the board, you're close enough to chimera hull heavy flamer them, or FRF them) and the squad breaks because of the PBS, and then is less than half strength, so is just lost without extra effort on your part.

**jjakaalbinoboy**

Orkimedes1000 wrote:i was suprised nobody mentioned the leman russ punisher, w/ x3 h.bolters upgrades optional, in unit of 3 can make virtually any army cringe with sheer (yet short ranged, but this doesn't really matter against DE) Firepower with a combined:gatling cannon Range 24" str 5 ap- heavy 20 + heavy bolter range 36" str 5 ap4 heavy 3, that gives 20 shots against rank and file, and 9 shots against armoured infantry (like characters) x3 of them 87 shots a turn if not moved. pretty scary but also pricy @ 660pts (or 220 each. no upgrades beside h.bolter sponsons)

A mate of mine used to play DE, but if the exterminator was out i would have used that instead to create a heavy 13 tank capable of terminating terminators

87 shots a turn but at 1 unit of a max of 20, seems a bit of a waste when they're in a Squadron?

**CaptainHonkey**

Hydras, lots of Hydra's. They're pretty cheap and scare the

out of Dark Eldar when there's at least 3 of them. I would know D:

**jjakaalbinoboy**

So in a 1,250 pts force how many Troops squads should I really have? As if I have switch to vets I get a lot less of them.

**Duce**

I aimed for atleast 4 troops as guard, and at 1850 points tried to get 6-7 troops in my armies