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Count Ludwig von Blackgate
A War hammer: Vampire Counts Expansion by Orkboy1
Ludwig von Blackgate was one of the greatest musicians in all the Old World, for when he played music, he conjured spells from the different notes that he played on an instrument. His favorite was an organ, which responded the strongest of all to his magic. No one noticed his pale skin or dark personality Ludwig of course, was a Vampire, but he hid it well, and rarely needed to feed. But whenever the famous entertainer was about, there was always a serf or two who mysteriously disappeared.
Ludwig used a special kind of Necrotic Power called “The Black Music” which is a lesser known Necromancy branch which can allow the caster to summon angered spirits out of the played instrument. Ludwig was extremely talented in this art and became a master in the skill.
His rise to power started when people actually realized he was a vampire. This was very late in his career, and they only found out before he played for Emperor Karl Franz. Before the guards could catch him at the checkpoint, Ludwig had already escaped. He later came to Count Mannfred von Carstien for more training in the Black Music.
Unfortunately for Ludwig and fortunately for the Empire, Mannfred had never heard of this form of Necromancy, and demanded that Ludwig teach it to him. 10 years later Mannfred had become skilled in the Black Music. Mannfred was so pleased, that he added Ludwig to his army as commander to a secret assault on the Strigoi Ghoul Kings. Ludwig was also given an obsidian organ, which was specially crafted to block out all magic but his, allowing his maniacal music to go on virtually uninterrupted by other casters. Initially, Ludwig was successful in these hunts, but slowly, he began to lose his already thin grip on reality. Mannfred could no longer trust the sinister figure that had became so saturated with the power of the Black Music. He dismissed him from the army, and left him a castle as peace offering so that he would not betray them.
However, Ludwig was not a vampire of his word, and even as Mannfred plots, Ludwig is creating an army of the Undead, filled with spirit creatures such as Cairn Wraths, Hexwraiths, Mortis Engines, and Banshees.


M WS BS S T W I A Ld
4 6 5 4 5 3 7 * 10

Weapons and Equipment: Light Armor
Organ of the Black Music: The Organ is made of the purest obsidian, and in order to simulate its anti-magical abilities all Wizards (friend or foe, excluding Ludwig.) may not cast magic of any kind, furthermore, Ludwig cannot be the target of any spells, except his own.
Magic:
Ludwig is a Level 3 Wizard and knows all the spells of the Lore of the Black Music.
Vampiric Powers:
Aura of Dark Majesty
Special Rules:
Vampire, Undead, Terror, The Hunger, Ethereal (when determining Shooting attacks)
Spiritual Leader: All Cairn Wraiths, Banshees, Mortis Engines, Coven Thrones, Hexwraiths, Spirit Hosts, and Black Coaches within 6” may use Ludwig’s Leadership as their own.
*Ludwig’s Special Attacks: Ludwig’s mastery of the Black Music allows him to play songs that can attack his foes
Large Foes Chart
All Large Foe attacks apply to models with these rules, Monstrous Infantry, Monstrous Cavalry, Flyer, Monster, or Large Target.
1-2: Frenzy
3-5: Plague
6: Spirit Charge
Smaller Foes Chart
All models without above listed rules.
1-2: Hands of the Dead
3-4: Feast of Crows
5: Zombifacation
6: Spirit Charge

Frenzy: The hypnotic pattern of the song sets the creature itself against its comrades. Roll a D6, on the roll of a 2-6; they have brushed off the pattern, on the roll of a one, the target becomes infuriated and must attack one unit within 6” (Randomly determine which). If there are no models, the target inflicts one wound on it automatically, no armor saves allowed.
Plague: A cry of plague and sorrow is played, and creates a crippling disease infects the target and automatically causes D3 Strength 5 Poisoned Attacks.

Spirit Charge: Ludwig plays a ballad of cursed knights who struck fear into their foes. Ludwig summons D3 Black Knights with the Ethereal rule that may only attack the target. If they succeed in killing the target before the end of the turn, they are removed as a casualty that does not count for victory points.
Hands of the Dead: Ludwig plays a song of revival summoning zombies from beneath the earth to grab the feat of their foes. Select a target model, that model and all enemy models within 6 inches may not move in the following enemy turn.
Feast of Crows: A cry of hunger is emitted and thousands of demonic crows flock towards the target. The selected model and the unit it is in (if it is) take 3D6 Strength 3 attacks as per Shooting.
Zombifacation: An aura of transmutation is expelled from the pipes of the organ. Roll a 2D6 on the roll of 1-6 nothing happens, 6-12 the target transforms into a zombie, its statistics are halved and it is now on under your control.
What do you think?

My crazy-vision only saw the Organ. You can't simply stop everyone from casting except the owner. That can never happen. Just like you can't stop anyone from doing any of the main phases. It's unbelievably insanely overpowered.

You didn't even put a range on it. As for no one can target him by spells, that's irrelevant because no one can cast.

You can't have an item that simply stops everyone from moving or shooting or engaging in close combat. It dumbs down the game and can potentially end matches before they start. If anyone has a wizard, I can't see them ever playing against it.

You could do something like raise the casting value of all spells by X. Like maybe 2 at the most. And it has to have a range.

Seconding the Duke. You may never, ever, ever shut down an opponents phase by merely buying a unit. It's simply among the things that would make the game even worse to play! If I were to face that, I'd simply pack up and leave because a game without magic when I pay several hundred points for my casters is not a fun game.

Sorry, here's updated rules
Count Ludwig von Blackgate
A War hammer: Vampire Counts Expansion by Orkboy1
Ludwig von Blackgate was one of the greatest musicians in all the Old World, for when he played music, he conjured spells from the different notes that he played on an instrument. His favorite was an organ, which responded the strongest of all to his magic. No one noticed his pale skin or dark personality Ludwig of course, was a Vampire, but he hid it well, and rarely needed to feed. But whenever the famous entertainer was about, there was always a serf or two who mysteriously disappeared.
Ludwig used a special kind of Necrotic Power called “The Black Music” which is a lesser known Necromancy branch which can allow the caster to summon angered spirits out of the played instrument. Ludwig was extremely talented in this art and became a master in the skill.
His rise to power started when people actually realized he was a vampire. This was very late in his career, and they only found out before he played for Emperor Karl Franz. Before the guards could catch him at the checkpoint, Ludwig had already escaped. He later came to Count Mannfred von Carstien for more training in the Black Music.
Unfortunately for Ludwig and fortunately for the Empire, Mannfred had never heard of this form of Necromancy, and demanded that Ludwig teach it to him. 10 years later Mannfred had become skilled in the Black Music. Mannfred was so pleased, that he added Ludwig to his army as commander to a secret assault on the Strigoi Ghoul Kings. Ludwig was also given an obsidian organ, which was specially crafted to block out all magic but his, allowing his maniacal music to go on virtually uninterrupted by other casters. Initially, Ludwig was successful in these hunts, but slowly, he began to lose his already thin grip on reality. Mannfred could no longer trust the sinister figure that had became so saturated with the power of the Black Music. He dismissed him from the army, and left him a castle as peace offering so that he would not betray them.
However, Ludwig was not a vampire of his word, and even as Mannfred plots, Ludwig is creating an army of the Undead, filled with spirit creatures such as Cairn Wraths, Hexwraiths, Mortis Engines, and Banshees.


M WS BS S T W I A Ld
4 6 5 4 5 3 7 * 10

Weapons and Equipment: Light Armor
Organ of the Black Music: The Organ is made of the purest obsidian, and in order to simulate its anti-magical abilities all Wizards (friend or foe, excluding Ludwig.) may not cast magic of any kindif they are within 6" of him, furthermore, Ludwig cannot be the target of any spells, except his own.
Magic:
Ludwig is a Level 3 Wizard and knows all the spells of the Lore of the Black Music.
Vampiric Powers:
Aura of Dark Majesty
Special Rules:
Vampire, Undead, Terror, The Hunger, Ethereal (when determining Shooting attacks)
Spiritual Leader: All Cairn Wraiths, Banshees, Mortis Engines, Coven Thrones, Hexwraiths, Spirit Hosts, and Black Coaches within 6” may use Ludwig’s Leadership as their own.
*Ludwig’s Special Attacks: Ludwig’s mastery of the Black Music allows him to play songs that can attack his foes
Large Foes Chart
All Large Foe attacks apply to models with these rules, Monstrous Infantry, Monstrous Cavalry, Flyer, Monster, or Large Target.
1-2: Frenzy
3-5: Plague
6: Spirit Charge
Smaller Foes Chart
All models without above listed rules.
1-2: Hands of the Dead
3-4: Feast of Crows
5: Zombifacation
6: Spirit Charge

Frenzy: The hypnotic pattern of the song sets the creature itself against its comrades. Roll a D6, on the roll of a 2-6; they have brushed off the pattern, on the roll of a one, the target becomes infuriated and must attack one unit within 6” (Randomly determine which). If there are no models, the target inflicts one wound on it automatically, no armor saves allowed.
Plague: A cry of plague and sorrow is played, and creates a crippling disease infects the target and automatically causes D3 Strength 5 Poisoned Attacks.

Spirit Charge: Ludwig plays a ballad of cursed knights who struck fear into their foes. Ludwig summons D3 Black Knights with the Ethereal rule that may only attack the target. If they succeed in killing the target before the end of the turn, they are removed as a casualty that does not count for victory points.
Hands of the Dead: Ludwig plays a song of revival summoning zombies from beneath the earth to grab the feat of their foes. Select a target model, that model and all enemy models within 6 inches may not move in the following enemy turn.
Feast of Crows: A cry of hunger is emitted and thousands of demonic crows flock towards the target. The selected model and the unit it is in (if it is) take 3D6 Strength 3 attacks as per Shooting.
Zombifacation: An aura of transmutation is expelled from the pipes of the organ. Roll a 2D6 on the roll of 1-6 nothing happens, 6-12 the target transforms into a zombie, its statistics are halved and it is now on under your control.

Making an Organ out of obsidian seems silly.
Having obsidian available in that large a quantity in the empire is unlikely.
Ebony and silver would be much nicer.

You list black music as a lore, but no spells.

You don't have a unit type for him. I'm thinking immobile would make sense, as wheeling an organ across the battle field seems stupid.

In an ethereal based army, maybe add a new unit.
Ghost Hordes (special choice). Same stats as zombies, only ethereal, with the Weak Binding special rule.
Ghostly Howl: as banshee scream, only it's 2D6 + rank bonus vs leadership. Wounds Inflicted replace lost ghosts (but do not take unit above starting size).

Weak Bindings: Ghosts crumble at the start each of your turns, just as if the general has died, may not use the generals leadership. 6 points each.






-Matt

This would still be like a zillion point character. He can't be immune to magic. Esp. considering he can use his own. The HE Banner of World Dragon is 60 points, it prevents even friendly magic, and is considered stupidly OP. Magic is one of the core phases.

Think about it this way, Ethereal is a huge cost. Units that have it are vastly weaker than those that don't with the same stats. But you can still spell them, you can still attack with magic weapons. A unit that was impervious to all attacks no matter what and could still attack would be too powerful. Not everyone has spells (or should have to).

His spells are also way over the top. Like zombification is a 50% chance of insta-killing any target (and taking control of it).

I know you're taking some concepts from Giants, but they aren't magic immune and Ethereal. In fact, they have no protection at all other than T and W. And they also tend to do silly stuff like fall down and they are Large Monsters so they can't be bunkered.

Spirit Charge, Zombiefication are way too powerful. Also, SCs simply don't have this many special rules. This is like a 2 page character. Honestly, if I had to say what GW would do with a concept like this he would be:

M WS BS S T W I A Ld
4 3 0 3 4 3 3 1 8

Special Rules:
Ethereal, Vampire, Undead, The Hunger, Hatred

Magic Items:
Organ:
Grants Magic Resistance (3)

The organ makes the owner a lvl 3 caster of the Lore of Vampires. Though he cannot channel power or dispel dice. Though the user can suffer miscasts as per usual.


So now he's a lvl 3 Vampire caster who can join Ethereal units (and gives MR). He's slower than all the Ethereals but that's one of the prices of having an SC.

Sorry, here's updated rules
Count Ludwig von Blackgate
A War hammer: Vampire Counts Expansion by Orkboy1
Ludwig von Blackgate was one of the greatest musicians in all the Old World, for when he played music, he conjured spells from the different notes that he played on an instrument. His favorite was an organ, which responded the strongest of all to his magic. No one noticed his pale skin or dark personality Ludwig of course, was a Vampire, but he hid it well, and rarely needed to feed. But whenever the famous entertainer was about, there was always a serf or two who mysteriously disappeared.
Ludwig used a special kind of Necrotic Power called “The Black Music” which is a lesser known Necromancy branch which can allow the caster to summon angered spirits out of the played instrument. Ludwig was extremely talented in this art and became a master in the skill.
His rise to power started when people actually realized he was a vampire. This was very late in his career, and they only found out before he played for Emperor Karl Franz. Before the guards could catch him at the checkpoint, Ludwig had already escaped. He later came to Count Mannfred von Carstien for more training in the Black Music.
Unfortunately for Ludwig and fortunately for the Empire, Mannfred had never heard of this form of Necromancy, and demanded that Ludwig teach it to him. 10 years later Mannfred had become skilled in the Black Music. Mannfred was so pleased, that he added Ludwig to his army as commander to a secret assault on the Strigoi Ghoul Kings. Ludwig was also given an obsidian organ, which was specially crafted to block out all magic but his, allowing his maniacal music to go on virtually uninterrupted by other casters. Initially, Ludwig was successful in these hunts, but slowly, he began to lose his already thin grip on reality. Mannfred could no longer trust the sinister figure that had became so saturated with the power of the Black Music. He dismissed him from the army, and left him a castle as peace offering so that he would not betray them.
However, Ludwig was not a vampire of his word, and even as Mannfred plots, Ludwig is creating an army of the Undead, filled with spirit creatures such as Cairn Wraths, Hexwraiths, Mortis Engines, and Banshees.


M WS BS S T W I A Ld
4 6 5 4 5 3 7 * 10

Unit Type: Immobile
Weapons and Equipment: Light Armor
Organ of the Black Music: The Organ is made of the purest obsidian, and in order to simulate its anti-magical abilities all Wizards (friend or foe, excluding Ludwig.) may not cast magic of any kindif they are within 6" of him, furthermore, Ludwig cannot be the target of any spells, except his own.
Magic:
Ludwig is a Level 3 Wizard and knows all the spells of the Lore of the Black Music.
Vampiric Powers:
Aura of Dark Majesty
Special Rules:
Vampire, Undead, Terror, The Hunger, Ethereal (when determining Shooting attacks)
Spiritual Leader: All Cairn Wraiths, Banshees, Mortis Engines, Coven Thrones, Hexwraiths, Spirit Hosts, and Black Coaches within 6” may use Ludwig’s Leadership as their own.
*Ludwig’s Special Attacks: Ludwig’s mastery of the Black Music allows him to play songs that can attack his foes
Large Foes Chart
All Large Foe attacks apply to models with these rules, Monstrous Infantry, Monstrous Cavalry, Flyer, Monster, or Large Target.
1-2: Frenzy
3-5: Plague
6: Spirit Charge
Smaller Foes Chart
All models without above listed rules.
1-2: Hands of the Dead
3-4: Feast of Crows
5: Zombifacation
6: Spirit Charge

Frenzy: The hypnotic pattern of the song sets the creature itself against its comrades. Roll a D6, on the roll of a 2-6; they have brushed off the pattern, on the roll of a one, the target becomes infuriated and must attack one unit within 6” (Randomly determine which). If there are no models, the target inflicts one wound on it automatically, no armor saves allowed.
Plague: A cry of plague and sorrow is played, and creates a crippling disease infects the target and automatically causes D3 Strength 5 Poisoned Attacks.

Spirit Charge: Ludwig plays a ballad of cursed knights who struck fear into their foes. Ludwig summons D3 Black Knights with the Ethereal rule that may only attack the target. If they succeed in killing the target before the end of the turn, they are removed as a casualty that does not count for victory points.
Hands of the Dead: Ludwig plays a song of revival summoning zombies from beneath the earth to grab the feat of their foes. Select a target model, that model and all enemy models within 6 inches may not move in the following enemy turn.
Feast of Crows: A cry of hunger is emitted and thousands of demonic crows flock towards the target. The selected model and the unit it is in (if it is) take 3D6 Strength 3 attacks as per Shooting.
Zombifacation: An aura of transmutation is expelled from the pipes of the organ. Roll a 2D6 on the roll of 1-9 nothing happens, 9-12 the target transforms into a zombie, its statistics are halved and it is now on under your control.
BTW just search Black Music and you will find the lore.

And you still continue to ignore people on the Organ.

I want him to give us a points cost, so we can see just what he expects...

I don't think this is worth our time. He clearly isn't willing to reduce his stupidly overpowered character in any way.

DukeRustfield wrote:This would still be like a zillion point character. He can't be immune to magic. Esp. considering he can use his own. The HE Banner of World Dragon is 60 points, it prevents even friendly magic, and is considered stupidly OP. Magic is one of the core phases.

Think about it this way, Ethereal is a huge cost. Units that have it are vastly weaker than those that don't with the same stats. But you can still spell them, you can still attack with magic weapons. A unit that was impervious to all attacks no matter what and could still attack would be too powerful. Not everyone has spells (or should have to).

His spells are also way over the top. Like zombification is a 50% chance of insta-killing any target (and taking control of it).

I know you're taking some concepts from Giants, but they aren't magic immune and Ethereal. In fact, they have no protection at all other than T and W. And they also tend to do silly stuff like fall down and they are Large Monsters so they can't be bunkered.

Spirit Charge, Zombiefication are way too powerful. Also, SCs simply don't have this many special rules. This is like a 2 page character. Honestly, if I had to say what GW would do with a concept like this he would be:

M WS BS S T W I A Ld
4 3 0 3 4 3 3 1 8

Special Rules:
Ethereal, Vampire, Undead, The Hunger, Hatred

Magic Items:
Organ:
Grants Magic Resistance (3)

The organ makes the owner a lvl 3 caster of the Lore of Vampires. Though he cannot channel power or dispel dice. Though the user can suffer miscasts as per usual.


So now he's a lvl 3 Vampire caster who can join Ethereal units (and gives MR). He's slower than all the Ethereals but that's one of the prices of having an SC.

This, except I would say he is immobile because of the organ. It would be an awesome center piece feature if the rules were reasonable.

Rivet wrote:This, except I would say he is immobile because of the organ. It would be an awesome center piece feature if the rules were reasonable.

Id say at most, not immobile, but very slow. It still makes no sense that the organ turns off magic but somehow he himself can...still use magic? how does that work? Perhaps somethign like he can cast some spell with a ridiculous cast roll and it turns off magic within 2d6 inches or something off for a turn. This represents him exerting magical power to magically play the magical organ to do magical turning off of magical things.

Ok, first of all, the "no-magic" thing is only 6 inches, so unless you have a Slaan Mage-Priest in close combat with a Vampire, it is not that bad. Secondly, i know that people post stuff here so other people can help them, but please don't insult my stuff. (koff koff lytera94 koff koff). Also, trying to keep the cost at around 400 points, he's a strong dude.

Orkboy1 wrote:Ok, first of all, the "no-magic" thing is only 6 inches, so unless you have a Slaan Mage-Priest in close combat with a Vampire, it is not that bad. Secondly, i know that people post stuff here so other people can help them, but please don't insult my stuff. (koff koff lytera94 koff koff). Also, trying to keep the cost at around 400 points, he's a strong dude.

The no magic "thing" is too powerful. It is as simple as that. You can do stuff that will severely mess with their magic phase. Like a Slaan making 6's be removed. but you cannot simply say "no-magic" in addition, you cannot have him immune to magic, you can set him with a really high magic resistance but not immune. If a Bloodthirster of Khorne is not immune, your vampire certainly would not be. Lastly 400pts is way to cheep for this character. I would say even with the adjustments I mentioned he would need to be close to 625.

An ethereal guy who can shut down magic with killer stats and save-or-die abilities just doesn't work. He can't be war machined cuz he's ethereal. And you can't cast against him, cuz obviously he's immune that that. So even if it's 1" he will get by your caster. And he has terror with a -1 LD aura so you can scare him off and it's more likely he'll scare you. And he's a loremaster who can heal himself. And he has crazy stats (I mean BS5 when he can't even shoot) so if anything hope-against-hope got a save-or-die attack against him, he's still going to pass it. And technically, I believe miscasts are considered magic, so he'd probably be immune to those as well.

My running joke is everything in proprosed rules has to have a ward save and/or killing blow, but this guy has drastically more. And there's no harm in that I guess, but he really would be like 1000pt char. He's nearly impossible to kill, beats stuff to death EASILY in close combat with his musak, and he's an incredibly good spell caster.

You would literally have to tailor a list to try and beat him and even then I'm not sure if you could. Some mega hero with ASF and mutli-wound dmg I guess.

Alright, alright he's wicked strong and do not worry dakkadakkins, I shall never use him! Yah happy?

Orkboy1 wrote:Ok, first of all, the "no-magic" thing is only 6 inches, so unless you have a Slaan Mage-Priest in close combat with a Vampire, it is not that bad. Secondly, i know that people post stuff here so other people can help them, but please don't insult my stuff. (koff koff lytera94 koff koff). Also, trying to keep the cost at around 400 points, he's a strong dude.

I'm not insulting your "stuff." I'm insulting your attitude towards the help you're getting.

Orkboy1 wrote:Alright, alright he's wicked strong and do not worry dakkadakkins, I shall never use him! Yah happy?

That is not how one takes constructive criticism. I don't even play Fantasy, and I know that there are serious issues with the thing. Also, edit the first post, don't repost the character over and over for every edit.

Think about Tyranids. In fluff, the Shadow in the Warp is so powerful that it makes psykers go insane simply by being within its radius. In the game, it merely makes psychic tests a bit more difficult. Thus, the organ could hinder enemy magic. Actually, the entire character could exist to de-buff the enemy in various ways, which is fitting for a vampire.

(I have to say, though, going to play for Karl Franz and then running off and becoming BFFs (teaching him a skill that only Ludwig knows) with Mannfried (who is afraid of him) is a tad on the Mary Sue side.)

OK, here we go, starting fresh, instead of immunity, he has Magic Resist (3). the organ only subtracts 2 from the enemy's casting roll, AND subtracts 1 from your own side. Better?

Well, Ethereal units can only be joined by Ethereal heroes. I'm not sure if this guy is Ethereal. I don't think so, since you only wrote shooting attacks. I had thought about my own post after I wrote it (and I suggested MR3), but one thing is if he can join Ethereal they get his MR. So it is quite powerful having essentially 4+ Ward vs spells and inifite ward vs non-magic melee. If he can't join, it's not as big a deal.

But certainly having MR and modifying casting rolls is a whole lot friendlier than blanket immunity.

The other spell effects, if they remain, are still questionable, but even if this guy did nothing but be a lvl 3 vampire with MR3 who modified casting rolls, he'd be tough. In fact, I'd say you could give him MR3, -2 6" radius, lvl 3, and be done, not even negatively affecting your own rolls. Except give him normal vampy stats. And maybe rewrite it from an organ to something he could actually tote around the battlefield. LIKE A RUSTY SQUEEZEBOX.

I'm actually impressed people have been criticising this, because I can't understand it enough to say anything about it. I mean, I absolutely cannot fathom how half the rules written are supposed to work.

How do Ludwig's Special Attacks work? As in when he's in combat, instead of making regular attacks he rolls on one of the two tables, and does that instead? Because a bunch of results

Spirit Charge says if they succeed in killing the target before the end of the turn they disappear, but what happens if they don't? Are they supposed to be models you put on the board, that stay there each turn? If they are, and Ludwig needs to be in combat to use it, how do you deal with there likely being no empty space around the target?

Why does Hands of the Dead tell you to select a target model? You've already had to pick a target model (else how would you know whether to roll on the large target table or not?)

And also, Zombification does nothing on a 1-9, but does something on a 2-12. You've got 9 in there twice and you can't roll a 1 on 2D6.

Sebster, 1. He salways uses special attacks, no matter what
2.if they don't succeed, they stay in play but only attack the target
3 sorry, I forgot I wrote that, that was just a mistake
4.once again, typo/mistake

Orkboy1 wrote:2.if they don't succeed, they stay in play but only attack the target

Do you need the models, do they have to fit in somewhere in BtB with the attacker, or do you just put a marker next to the victim? It seems kind of impractical. I think you might need to go and playtest this guy a few times, figure out how well or how poorly different parts of your rules work, then come back to us.

You use the models but if they can't fit, you can't use them a.k.a. No attack from Ludwig.