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So I've been running 2 Jump Libs, Terminators in a storm raven and 40 jump marines for a long while, and it's all pretty much been the same list. I'm trying to mix things up to keep myself tactically sharp and make things more interesting.. so here's what I thought might be interesting:

I'm really looking for advice regarding The Sanguinor, and if bubble wrapping him is viable. I know that having a Storm Raven as your only vehicle goes against conventional wisdom, but I've been running my Blood Angels this way for almost a year with success in tournaments. It's a high risk, high reward vehicle that has one job: Turbo boost and deliver the goods.

The list runs as Jumpers, or DoA versus particularly scary vehicle lines (IG) Meltabombs on Terminator Priest are last 5 points.... (so open game)

HQ
Librarian in Power Armor /w Jump Pack, Shield of Sanguinius, Unleash Rage @125
The Sanguinor @275

Elites
2x Sanguinary Priests in Power Armor /w Jump Packs @150
1x Sanguinary Priest in Terminator Armor /w Melta Bombs @90
5x Terminators /w 2x LC & 3x TH&SS @215

Troops
3x10 Assault Marines /w Jump Packs, 2x Meltaguns, Power Fist @705
10x Assault Marines /w Jump Packs, 2x Flamer, Power Fist @225

Heavy Support
Stormraven Gunship /w TL MM, TL AC, Extra Armor @215

Not sure about the list side of thing, but with turbo boosting your Storm Raven, I do not reccomend turbo boosting it as a whole armies worth of AT will fire at all, more often than not bringing it down. and the Units inside are automatically destroyed because they cannot disembark (Read FAQ if you don't believe me) which will be 430 Points down the sink. A risk I wouldn't want to take. Just some advice

if you include Corbulo in your list you can use his re-roll on your 3+ cover save. (this was recommended) to me by a tournament player at my local store)

Deraiderspam wrote:Not sure about the list side of thing, but with turbo boosting your Storm Raven, I do not reccomend turbo boosting it as a whole armies worth of AT will fire at all, more often than not bringing it down. and the Units inside are automatically destroyed because they cannot disembark (Read FAQ if you don't believe me) which will be 430 Points down the sink. A risk I wouldn't want to take. Just some advice

turbo boost is for bikes. You mean flat out.
av12 is a little weak it is true but it has antimelta paint and the ship needs just to cross the board before dying to be useful.
Then you have misread the FAQ, it is in the same movement phase. I am sure this can happen to a stormraven, that is blowing up it's own movement phase. The best I can do is a stormraven moves flat out, a rhino tank shocks something really explodey, it death of glories and its weapon goes boom covering the stormraven as well.
Actually how do you down a stormraven in its own movement phase? Av10 and tanks are easy with tank shocks, otherwise I have no idea.

It's a skimmer, so it can blow up if it hits a tree when it takes off or lands. Skimmers + difficult terrain can get immobilized, and if it goes flat out (as it's a "fast" vehicle), immobilized counts as wrecked. So no, it can't go BOOM, but it can wreck and kill everything inside.

Skies of Blood. You can still use that even when moving flat out.

AV12 with a 4+ cover save is pretty durable. Even moreso with a 3+ from flat out, and with PotMS you're not really giving anything up to go flat out - you can still fire your primary weapon system. Stormravens don't die unless they stop moving, basically. Extra armor for them is kind of a waste. They come with everything they'll ever need already in the base cost.

haha wow this really sparked some debate.

The terminators really aren't that big of a deal. I've been using that unit for a long time, I understand it's risk/reward and I find that in a very high percentage of games, they get into CC and wreck face like they're supposed to.

The big change is that the terminators usually boast a librarian, and lack a priest. In that librarians place is The Sanguinor, because I really lack that "champion" that can square off with Demon Princes etc etc... so I thought it might be fun.

Overall, I've found that my 40 jumpers provide plenty of bubble wrap for old Sanguilicious, and that his +1A bubble allows for some serious hurtin'... it's been fun and I like the change.

Anyone have anything to say about the actual list!? haha

Looks pretty good. I think Extra Armor is obligatory, but if you ever deep strike the jumpers, you might want to find some points for a Locator Beacon on the SR. Then you can do some no-scatter precision drops.

In most cases, I'd agree on extra armor. But there are a few things in the space marine arsenal that don't need it - pretty much anything with PotMS or a reliable form of save.

If you think about it, extra armor turns a 2 into a 1. That's crucial for some things, like transports, but for anything that could be considered a "fire platform" (land raiders, stormravens), it's unnecessary. The points would be better spent elsewhere in those cases, barring the rare "hybrid" vehicles like the Flamestorm Baal.

Hmm. I'm not explaining this very well, because I keep coming up with exceptions, so how about this - categorize your vehicles. I can come up with 3 easy classes of vehicle:

Transports: Rhino
- This is the class you definitely NEED extra armor for, since if it's not moving, it's not doing its primary job, which is to deliver troops into enemy lines.

Assault vehicles: Baal Predator, Razorback (all variants except the las/plas), Furioso Dreadnought, and pretty much any other vehicle firing a template or other close ranged weapon as its primary weapon system
- This class may or may not need extra armor, although it's far more likely to need it than fire platforms.

Fire platforms: Land Raiders, Whirlwinds, non-Baal Predators, "vanilla" Dreadnoughts, Stormraven
- This class contains two transports, but they're durable enough to not "absolutely require" extra armor or armed heavily enough that they can take long-ranged shots. In the case of the 'raven, the durability is added by the "skimmers moving fast" rule giving it a reliable 4+ every turn.

Chesh wrote:In most cases, I'd agree on extra armor. But there are a few things in the space marine arsenal that don't need it - pretty much anything with PotMS or a reliable form of save.

If you think about it, extra armor turns a 2 into a 1. That's crucial for some things, like transports, but for anything that could be considered a "fire platform" (land raiders, stormravens), it's unnecessary. The points would be better spent elsewhere in those cases, barring the rare "hybrid" vehicles like the Flamestorm Baal.

Hmm. I'm not explaining this very well, because I keep coming up with exceptions, so how about this - categorize your vehicles. I can come up with 3 easy classes of vehicle:

Transports: Rhino
- This is the class you definitely NEED extra armor for, since if it's not moving, it's not doing its primary job, which is to deliver troops into enemy lines.

Assault vehicles: Baal Predator, Razorback (all variants except the las/plas), Furioso Dreadnought, and pretty much any other vehicle firing a template or other close ranged weapon as its primary weapon system
- This class may or may not need extra armor, although it's far more likely to need it than fire platforms.

Fire platforms: Land Raiders, Whirlwinds, non-Baal Predators, "vanilla" Dreadnoughts, Stormraven
- This class contains two transports, but they're durable enough to not "absolutely require" extra armor or armed heavily enough that they can take long-ranged shots. In the case of the 'raven, the durability is added by the "skimmers moving fast" rule giving it a reliable 4+ every turn.

Except that my Stormraven's primary duty is delivering 300p of Terminators into the fray, not being a "firing platform"... additionally, the Land Raider is a great choice for Extra Armor as well, given it's common role as a transport. If you're fielding a Land Raider, it's rarely for the Lascannons.


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Also, a small update to the list. Melta Bombs on the Termie Priest haven't really made a difference, but the Flamer squad could use those 5 extra points to upgrade their fist to a Thunder Hammer, since they lack Meltaguns for anti vehicle (if I had 5 more points, they'd have melta guns)

HQ
Librarian /w Jump Pack, Shield of Sang, Unleash Rage @125p
The Sanguinor @275p

Elites
1x Terminator Priest @85p
2x Power Armor Priest /w Jump Packs @150p
1x Terminator Assault Squad /w 2x LC, 3x TH&SS @215p

Troops
3x10 Assault Marines /w Packs, 2x Meltaguns, Power Fist @705p
1x10 Assault Marines /w Packs, 2x Flamer, Thunder Hammer @230p

Heavy Support
Stormraven Gunship /w TL AC, TL MM, Extra Armor @215p

Deraiderspam wrote:Not sure about the list side of thing, but with turbo boosting your Storm Raven, I do not reccomend turbo boosting it as a whole armies worth of AT will fire at all, more often than not bringing it down. and the Units inside are automatically destroyed because they cannot disembark (Read FAQ if you don't believe me) which will be 430 Points down the sink. A risk I wouldn't want to take. Just some advice

If the storm raven is destroyed during your OPPONENTS shooting phase the models inside are fine (minus the pinning check).

Besides that the list looks ok. Only things I would point out is 3 Sang priests might be a bit over kill, as 2 sang priests are enough. Your Raven also is a bullet magnet as theres nothing else to shoot at besides the raven turn 1 unless you DS it with your entire army (which to me makes sense), but then why even bring a stormraven at all?

Decent list, only problems are that you have little long ranged anti tank.

DSing a stormraven is really dangerous because:

-It can't come in until at least the second turn

-DSing, on top of that, makes it so that they moved at cruising speed. They have the chance of scattering and screwing themselves up on the entry, and they get no cover saves unless you place them strategically behind some cover and again, if they don't scatter into that cover.

Honestly, if you want it to survive past turn 1, technically, yes you can just reserve it so it's impossible to lose it but the best chance that they can at least serve their purpose is to send them 24" across the board, maaaaybe pass the 4+ when needed the most, fire off their plasma cannons (if you move them flat out, I like that, or the multi melta, depends where you land of course), and drop off the troops the next turn.

I have never deepstruck my Storm Raven.

@Titan When I deem it necessary to keep the SR in reserve, it does just that: stays in reserve, and then comes off the board edge hard and fast once the enemy is softened up.

@ Smitty Anti-tank has never been a problem for me, if there is a long range target I usually DoA on top of it and melta it. Otherwise, the jumpers take care of tanks as they need to with their meltaguns. I occassionaly bring in a Predator /w AC/Las Sponsons, but with the Sanguinor, I don't have the points.

@smitty I used to just run 2 sanguinary priests 2 librarians, but when I deleted the 2nd lib for the sanguinor (which is the big change in this list vs. my average list) I found that the terminator squad was kind of wimpy. The furious charge and feel no pain seem to bring them back up to snuff.

Nothing wrong with reserving your Storm Raven. If you're a cautious player and/or have the 2nd turn then it is, in fact, a very good idea.

Yep. It's provided me plenty of versatility in the past. It doesn't need to live the whole game, it needs to put terminators on their side of the board!

I didn't say don't reserve it, just that I'm iffy about Deep striking it.


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Basically it has the minor frustrating possibilities of getting crappy reserve rolls plus a good number of other dangerous factors. Nothing wrong with the idea of coming off the board though.


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I should also probably clarify I was responding to Smitty lol, didn't mean to ruffle any feathers if any are ruffled.