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It seems to me that most army builds out there tend to take more heavy units than fast attack. Or the often do not take any fast attack choices at all. Is it just me or do most armies have poorer units in there fast attack slot? I know there are some exceptions (like Space Wolves) but it seems that for most armies you are better off to overlook (or go very light on) fast attack units. Is this an accurate assumption?

Vendettas and Bhaal Preditors leap to mind.
In fact the guard also has Rough Riders and Hellhounds. So the IG is very well catered for.

No, it just comes down to the army. Some armies have all their good stuff in fast attack, and it is always full. Others have weak FA options.

It might be that way in your local meta, but I don't think it is overall. It just depends on the army.

Depends on the Army.

Necrons have exceptional units in their fast Attack slots (Wraiths, Scarabs, Tomb Blades, Destroyers)

Chaos have feth all.

riplikash wrote:No, it just comes down to the army. Some armies have all their good stuff in fast attack, and it is always full. Others have weak FA options

This.

It depends on the codex. Some have very strong FA options, such as Necrons, SW, or IG. Other armies have decent FA options and you see them in some lists, like Orks or C:SM. Other armies have crap FA options like CSM and you rarely see them in lists.

I agree, army choice has a lot to do with it

Necrons as already mentioned have extremely good FA. IG have the infamous Vendettas. SM have landspeeders. DE have reavers and Beastmasters. SW have their TW

I think the reason why HS seems more popular is because that is where most armies get their anti tank

I've used my FA slots precious few times. My Orks have none whatsoever, my Crimson Fists only have two assault Marine squads (that, with the exception of MENDOZAAA fail to do much of anything), my Chaos Marines have nothing, and my Valhallans won't have much. My IG occasionally field Hellhounds, Sentinels, and a Valkyrie, but not often. It's just an underutilized slot with lots of traditionally overcosted units like assault Marines and bikers, fragile units like Vypers and Land Speeders, and then some strangely fantastic choices like TWC, Vendettas, and Wraiths. I'd just say it's an uneven slot, all things considered.

I have a squad of CSM raptor that i have used once.

I NEVER have any FA choices in my CSM lists.

Stormraven. That is all.

The reason nobody takes FA options is because FA options are nearly universally junk. Even in armies where you have good FA options (like guard), you tend to have only one good FA option (and the rest are junk), and even then you only ever see one or two.

The reason why most FA slots are junk is because you have to pay a premium for a little bit more mobility, which winds up being much less useful in a game of 40k than most other qualities. For example, FA slots tend to be much, much less durable than things in HS slots, and they are also less durable than troops, while losing the ability to score, and most FA slots just flat out lose to elites options in their codex (which often come with enough practical extra mobility - like the ability to deepstrike - while maintaining their durability or firepower).

It turns out that when you're playing on such a tiny battlefield, where all long range guns start the game in range of basically everything, and where all short range guns are in range by turn 2 or 3 (when close combat starts), that having the ability to exploit a small area in a short time a little better than most other units in the codex just isn't worth what you have to give up to take them.

The FA slot tends to be ignored by your standard WAAC players, unless it has something stupid awesome.

I personally use the following fast attack units:

Pathfinders, Vespid, Piranha
Deffkoptas, skorchas
Raptors
SM bikes, landspeeders, attack bike squads

There are some good things depending on your list and how you run your army, but in general, the FA slot is the most ignored due to the fact that EVERYONE can run... also transport spam. If you spam transports, blame yourself!

What's with this consensus where FA is junk? I've seen SM bikes and speeders used to very good effect on many occasions.

Edit: Granted, that's just SM. I'm sure there are other forces who's FA are truly worthless.

I'm not getting this whole "FA is junk" thing. As has been mentioned, Necrons and DE are spoiled for choice in the FA department. It sounds like wolves, IG, and C:SM have at least a few good options that you see semi-regularly.

Like I said earlier, it just depends on the army.

I'm not saying that it's not possible to run a successful army that includes things from its FA slots. What I am saying is that most of the time, in most codices, things in the FA slot are outshone by things in every other slot.

At least in 5th ed, the advantages you gain from the often questionable (if not completely absent) speed bonus doesn't stack up to the durability or firepower bonuses of other support options in their codex.

Space Marines will have the Storm Talon, soon. Its a fast attack choice and a ''pretty looking'' tank.

Space Marines have Land Speeders there and its a good choice.

Attack Bikes (still like the ,,german" term: Trike much better)
can be useful

Bikes are really not often seen in 5th Edition

and Jumptroops were downgraded so much after their powerful domination in 3rd Edition that you shouldnt field them. But I guess 6th Edition will power them back into the game.

Praxiss wrote:I have a squad of CSM raptor that i have used once.

I NEVER have any FA choices in my CSM lists.

Never, except for once.

CSM Fast Attack are terrible. They're going to stay terrible until Chaos gets marked Daemons again.

Orks at least get Defkoptas. Not the greatest, but they're decent. And buggies are fun, if not always the best choice.

biccat wrote:... are fun, if not always the best choice.

Which really describes FA choices in general.

IDK even about Chaos fast attack. Nurgle bikers can be hilarious in CQB.

And Ailaros is right. The boards now are so densely packed that the maneuvering advantage of Fast Attack choices is totally negated by the lack of space to maneuver in.

The mobility bonus that FA choices get is just offset so much by mechanization and running in 5th ed. While the mobility is nice almost everything else can keep up with them.

I use a heavy amount of Deffkoptas for early game harrasment and quick assaults. I might inlcude a dakkajet for fun as well.

But I will agree that overall in most of the armies I have played, I tend to overlook or skip the FA slot.

Ironically, Eldar and Dark Eldar have some of the least effective FA choices aside from Reaver Jetbikes and debatably Shining Spears.

Most of them really just don't have the power necessary to actually be useful except for the standbys of Baal Preds/Valks, and there's certainly no build that is FA-centric. At least for building DE armies, Fast Attack is the absolute last thing to take right after every single FOC choice is filled.

The reason the FA slot is underutilized in Eldar armies is that both CW and DE are armies that emphasize speed, firepower, and manuverability. So what the hell use do I have for an entire slot dedicated to crap I have EVERYWHERE? Especially when, with the notable exception of TWC and Wraiths, the FA slot is meant to be populated by your army's glass hammers. It is for skirmishers, harassers, outflankers. Items used for putting early pressure on the enemy or coming from unseen directions. The design philosophy for both types of Eldar incorporate that very thing, and in the case of DE the whole army is nothing but glass cannons. The DE Fast Attack section is full of cannons that are glassier, but no more cannonier.

Brother SRM wrote:The mobility bonus that FA choices get is just offset so much by mechanization and running in 5th ed. While the mobility is nice almost everything else can keep up with them.

Well, mech lists aren't any faster than foot lists, so it's not like you're "catching up" with anything. Plus, most people play mech lists as parking lots - any advantage in mobility is lost if you don't actually move anything.

If anything, though, the fact that infantry can now run, and transports are more prevalent has eaten into the relative advantage of FA slots. Back when you could only move 6", something that could move 12" was a bigger deal. In a world where transports give things 12" of movement, and infantry get 6+D6" of movement, the advantage is dilute.

Combine that with more and more minis on the same sized board...

NuclearMessiah wrote:I use a heavy amount of Deffkoptas for early game harrasment

This is also another way of seeing this same problem. FA units tend to be fast, but also tend to have underwhelming killing power for their points. Put these two together, and what this means is that most FA units are relegated to the role of harassment, which is a role that is very poorly rewarded in 40k. Why be annoying with my FA slots when I can outright destroy my opponent with HS and Elites choices?

No army has amazing choices in every section, it might just be your choice of armies, but some have some decent options.

TWC spring to mind in an instant, followed by wraiths and scarabs.
I run raveners quite a bit in my nids and they have yet to do me any wrong.
I also run 2 baal preds for BA and they have only ever done well for me.
The points seem to more than justify the use i get from them.

Orks, well, not including the new kit they have a pretty hit or miss option for FA.

Koptas - On paper they are nice, but in reality, the alpha strike they make use of rarely does anything big.

Buggies - more of a themed thing i guess.
While rokkit buggies are nice, they are a squad type vehicle, with AV10 and open topped.
So they have the life span of a funfair goldfish.

Its really just a case of armies varying too much to be able to select a certain chart type and write it off as junk.



But as ailaros said, you usually see a premium in the FA slot which really does make the choice of taking something a little harder to justify.

Mr. Self Destruct wrote:Ironically, Eldar and Dark Eldar have some of the least effective FA choices aside from Reaver Jetbikes and debatably Shining Spears.

Thats makes sense, because nearly their whole armies are fast assualt choices, even troops, elite and HQ.

SoB right now have FA as one of their better choices right now with Scouting Dominions in either Rhinos or Immo's. Hell, if I could I would only take HQ, HS, and FA with my Sisters.