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2012/05/30 13:13:29
Subject: China protects itself from the real threat
Stability trumps all other concerns in China
By Yu Jie, Published: May 29
I have known Chen Guangcheng for almost a decade. We met as participants in the State Department’s International Visitor Leadership Program in 2003. It brought us both to the United States but also brought us together in our common interests and mission for China.
After our return to China, I put Chen in touch with a number of lawyers and intellectuals involved in human rights work and introduced him to veteran activist Liu Xiaobo. Back then, the three of us still enjoyed a certain degree of freedom. We were able to sit down together, as we did one morning in a bookstore near Beijing University, talking and exchanging ideas for hours.
How things have changed. Today, Liu Xiaobo, the 2010 Nobel Peace Prize laureate, is serving an 11-year prison sentence. Unrelenting abuse and threats from state security forces sent me into exile to the United States in January. And barely four months later, Chen Guangcheng has made the same journey. Our three fates should remind the world that, contrary to myths and assumptions, economic liberalization and development will not inevitably lead to corresponding political liberalization and development. Economic power has only reinforced an increasingly absurd state power in China.
Rapid growth has transformed China’s party-state into the world’s wealthiest regime, thereby providing endless funds for “maintaining stability,” a pleasant-sounding euphemism for crushing dissent. The official Chinese Academy of Social Sciences reported that government expenses on “stability maintenance” totaled about $110 billion last year, more than even the defense budget. State expenditures targeting Chen alone reportedly ran into the millions per year, producing a rare growth industry in rural Shandong: monitoring Chen and blocking visitors to his home became the most promising career path for locals. Representing a similar mind-set, the police chief responsible for monitoring my life in Beijing once told me, “Since you moved here, our district has been able to enjoy millions in stability maintenance funds.” He did not see me as a threat or even a nuisance. He just saw me as a means of making money. As ridiculous as it sounds, this is the reality of China today.
China’s economic development over the past decade has refocused resources toward state control. State-owned enterprises have relied on monopolization and connections to realize rapid growth, while private enterprises have faced increasing policy restrictions. State-owned enterprises are not, in fact, state-owned but the private enterprises of well-connected princelings. Each important family in the senior leadership has its industrial fiefdom: former premier Li Peng’s family controls the power and coal industries; the family of former president Jiang Zemin controls telecommunications; the family of former premier Zhu Rongji is involved in finance. Premier Wen Jiabao’s family is involved in the jewelry trade. The average citizen, by contrast, has not derived similar benefits even after decades of economic growth: The gap between rich and poor continues to grow, and social inequality has become increasingly stark.
Furthermore, the abuse that Chen and his family have faced in recent years shatters another myth about today’s China: that while local officials are often corrupt and abusive, the central government is inherently good. Chen’s persecution was not simply a local matter.
We cannot imagine that Dongshigu officials somehow hid their handling of Chen’s case from virtuous central leaders: The international media have reported on Chen’s persecution for years. Beijing’s tacit consent eventually developed into direct support after Chen’s escape: Those who aided his flight from illegal detention have been detained. Such a widespread crackdown, from Nanjing to Beijing, could have been implemented only on orders from the central government.
In effect, the central government and local officials have taken each other hostage in the name of “maintaining stability.” Beijing has placed the burden of stability on local officials, who can face serious punishment from above for outspoken petitioners and activists in their jurisdiction. So local officials are willing to do almost anything to “deal with” people like Chen, rather than addressing the issues he and others raise. The central government then not only condones but also enables such behavior. Even as abuse of Chen made headlines around the world, Beijing refused to step in and halt this reign of terror. Consider that officials in Beijing still refuse to abide by their own laws and punish officials in Dongshigu for their outrageous criminal behavior.
It is thus not surprising that Chen’s video message to Wen, which went viral after his escape from house arrest, has yet to receive a response. If one local official were punished for his abuses, official morale would be damaged and the floodgates would be opened for similar cases nationwide, posing a direct threat to the regime. Although distinctions are often made between corrupt local officials and a righteous central government, their interests are aligned: maintain the veneer of stability at any cost.
After nearly a decade of persecution and abuse, Chen has arrived safely in the United States, but this struggle is not over. The one-child policy that Chen criticized, which denies 1.3 billion Chinese the right of choice and the right to life, remains in effect. Those who aided Chen’s escape are harassed and detained. And many other citizens who have been inspired by his efforts continue to face unrelenting pressure and abuse from the ever-vigilant state security forces.
The poet and priest John Donne wrote , “No man is an island, entire of itself; every man is a piece of the continent, a part of the main . . . any man’s death diminishes me, because I am involved in mankind.” Our freedom, rights and dignity are intertwined as human beings. Of course we need to be concerned with the fate of Chen . But we also need to be concerned with the fate of the billions of citizens of China, for whom Chen and so many other courageous individuals have sought greater freedom, rights and dignity.
2012/05/30 13:23:07
Subject: Re:China protects itself from the real threat
that's just for the security forces and may not include the bill for media and internet censorship.
Give me a million, and I will walk all over China telling dissidents "Hey, stop that!" It will have the same effect in the long run, and save them some cash.
When I was there you could bring a camera into Tiananmen with no problem. BUT around certain sensitive dates (like the anniversery of the massacre) there would be dozens of young men with crew cuts, track suits and umbrellas.
If anyone did anything, the guys would jump them while the rest would pop their umbrellas to hide what was going on.
2012/05/30 14:45:22
Subject: China protects itself from the real threat
im from australia but i went to china for a few months just traveling and i expected to see allot of the communist agenda... however i thought china ( beijing, shanghai, wuhan and taijiang at least) were all dramatized by news. people think that the tianimen square incident is still covered up but everyone i spoke to knew about it. people think chinese hate westerns, where as infact they love everything western! they spend there hole life working minimum wage so their kids can one day have a somewhat "western life" they love american movies to death! infact almost every chinese person that spoke english had an american accent because they learnt english while watching american movies its pretty funny
there seems to be allot more respect on the streets for one another, chinese people shop for food in supermarkets like we do they buy cloths like we do and electronics and homes and aircons they are not a third world country...
one thing that anyoys me is that people think china will be the next country to start a massive war but i studied chinese history at school and not once in china's history have they been the agressor of a war outside of their country. chinese ideology is that they are the centre of the world they do not need to impose themselves on anyone else... sorry i suck at writing good sentances
2012/05/30 14:50:37
Subject: China protects itself from the real threat
spaceXjam wrote:
one thing that anyoys me is that people think china will be the next country to start a massive war but i studied chinese history at school and not once in china's history have they been the agressor of a war outside of their country. chinese ideology is that they are the centre of the world they do not need to impose themselves on anyone else... sorry i suck at writing good sentances
Say whaaaaa?
You need to freshen up on your history me thinks...
That is one of the reason's why I don't think China will ever truly be a Super-Power. They must expend too much of their political and economic energies on supressing internal issues. They are a powderkeg of racial, class, religous, and political tensions waiting to explode. T
he US manages to diffuse much of these tensions through the ballot box; but China does not have this same luxury. The government seems unwilling to make changes in that area; and hence limiting its own potential to become a Super-Power.
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2012/05/30 15:22:45
Subject: China protects itself from the real threat
Easy E wrote:That is one of the reason's why I don't think China will ever truly be a Super-Power. They must expend too much of their political and economic energies on supressing internal issues. They are a powderkeg of racial, class, religous, and political tensions waiting to explode. T
he US manages to diffuse much of these tensions through the ballot box; but China does not have this same luxury. The government seems unwilling to make changes in that area; and hence limiting its own potential to become a Super-Power.
I'll say this much...I think at a certain point you kinda have to trust your citizenry, and China's a long way from doing that.
This is going to make me sound like a militant environmentalist, but I think you can add pollution/environmental problems to that list of big future problems for the Chinese. They may get to true superpower status if they aren't already there, but it's not going to be smooth sailing at every step.
If you look into history China was always its own biggest problem, always splitted always Civil War, and I dont mean the non-chinese parts of modern china like Xinnjiang or Tibet.
Take the Taiping Rebellion almost nobody knows about despite beeing one of the bloodiest wars in history.
And China has the biggest problem still ahead: The middle income trap. Its ,,easy" to get out of the 3rd world, as you can exploit the cheap labourforce. Its hard to reach the 1st world.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/05/30 22:10:16
2012/05/30 23:07:17
Subject: Re:China protects itself from the real threat
For those that don't have an account (it's free, ten articles per week if you have a verified account, five for an unverified one), here:
Spoiler:
The emperor does know
How the system rewards repression, in the name of maintaining stability
May 12th 2012 | BEIJING | from the print edition
A CENTRAL contradiction in the story of Chen Guangcheng, the blind activist who fled last month to the American embassy, is one that also lies at the heart of Chinese political life. Mr Chen considers one official in his home prefecture of Linyi in Shandong province to be most responsible for the human-rights abuses committed against him and others. Yet that official, Li Qun, has never been punished. Indeed he has been promoted several times, and is now one of Shandong’s most powerful officials. The abuses of which Mr Chen speaks include forced abortions and sterilisations that Mr Chen was jailed for documenting; the use of thugs to beat and intimidate him and his family; and the illegal house arrest from which Mr Chen escaped last month to take refuge in the American embassy. He is now awaiting papers to leave China for study in America.
Like many Chinese, Mr Chen portrays his own struggle as part of a wider gulf between an overwhelmed central government and maverick local authorities. After his escape, in a videotaped message, he implored the prime minister, Wen Jiabao, to investigate abuses in Linyi. Speaking from his hospital bed in Beijing, where he is recuperating from a broken foot suffered during his escape, Mr Chen says: “It is clear that the central government needs to turn over the Shandong soil in which the crimes of local officials have grown.” It is a modern rendering of an ancient countryside lament: “If only the emperor knew…”
But the emperor does know, and the emperor rewards. Although there has been an expansion of social and economic freedoms in many areas, under the Communist Party’s system of cadre evaluations, local officials are graded on the basis of a series of internal targets that have little to do with the rule of law. The targets are meant for internal use, but local governments have sometimes published them on websites, and foreign scholars have also seen copies. The most important measures are maintaining social stability, achieving economic growth and, in many areas, enforcing population controls. Cadres sign contracts that spell out their responsibilities. Failure to meet targets can end a cadre’s career. Fulfilling them, even if it means trampling laws to do so, can mean career advancement and financial bonuses.
Mayling Birney at the London School of Economics says the system assigns the cold logic of a scorecard to behaviour often dismissed as the excesses of little dictators far from Beijing. Acting in accordance with the law is ranked as less important than other priorities. On one local document seen by Ms Birney, cadres in one township could score only up to 10% of their points for lawfulness, but 40% for economic development. In effect, she says, the party is instructing local officials to break laws when it will help them to meet higher priorities.
Social stability is paramount: authorities in Tibet and in Jiangxi province recently announced that officials can be promoted for “outstanding performance” in maintaining stability. Beijing will supply localities seeking to put down unrest with additional “stability maintenance” funding, which creates a perverse financial incentive to employ repressive tactics. Political careers have been made, not broken, by brutal repression of unrest—in 1989 an official named Hu Jintao imposed martial law after riots in Tibet. Mr Hu is now China’s president. In 2011 a Hu protégé, Hu Chunhua (no relation), burnished his credentials by cracking down in Inner Mongolia.
This helps explain the rise of Li Qun, the Shandong official who was party secretary of Linyi in 2002-07. During those years Mr Chen began his activism against forced abortions and sterilisations. In 2004 Mr Li had issued a directive to strengthen measures to control population. In 2005 Mr Chen visited Beijing, where he was grabbed by a group of men from Linyi, bundled into a car and driven 650km (400 miles) back to his home village of Dongshigu, in Linyi prefecture, where he was illegally detained until his formal arrest and jailing in 2006. Lawyers who attempted to visit him were also beaten and interrogated. Mr Chen’s detention without charge, and the intimidation of visitors, resumed upon his release from prison in 2010.
Meanwhile Mr Li, the party secretary, was rewarded. He was named Shandong province’s chief of propaganda in 2007 and in the same year was elevated to the province’s powerful standing committee, where he remains. In November 2010 he was named party secretary of Shandong’s largest port city, Qingdao (see article). Mr Li’s office did not respond to our questions about Mr Chen’s accusations.
This month a senior official from the government’s complaints and petitions bureau visited Mr Chen in his Beijing hospital room, promising an investigation. It is extremely rare for the bureau to resolve anything, despite the show of accountability. Many petitioners believe that central-government officials are ignorant of wrongdoing in the provinces, and so they flock to Beijing to file their complaints at the various offices of the petitions bureau. But localities routinely send hired thugs to Beijing to round up these disaffected residents. The snatch squads forcibly repatriate petitioners or dispatch them to illegal “black jails”, buildings where they are held (and often mistreated) until they can be returned to their hometown. Such actions are illegal, but under the party’s secretive guidelines for promotion, they make perfect sense to local officials.
The people in the past who convinced themselves to do unspeakable things were no less human than you or I. They made their decisions; the only thing that prevents history from repeating itself is making different ones.
-- Adam Serwer
My blog
2012/05/31 00:24:07
Subject: China protects itself from the real threat
We shouldnt be surprised by this. For any dictatorial regime internal security is the overwhelming priority.
On a percentage basis what China is up to is nothing compared to East Germany. The Stasi had 200K employees and an estimated 500k informers out of a population of 16 million.
n'oublie jamais - It appears I now have to highlight this again.
It is by tea alone I set my mind in motion. By the juice of the brew my thoughts aquire speed, my mind becomes strained, the strain becomes a warning. It is by tea alone I set my mind in motion.
2012/05/31 02:36:21
Subject: Re:China protects itself from the real threat
Oh yes, another thread were people come to irrationally hate and dump on China.
China will get there and "come out of it's repressive shell" on it's on, poking and prodding from the rest of the world just makes them feel all the more justified in there actions.
Not to mention the fact of the matter remains is that countries like America need to have limits on the amounts of children you can have.
I feel sorry for China, they are constantly beat with the morals stick when we have wasted trillions fighting goat farmers in the Middle East.
"The Imperium is nothing if not willing to go to any lengths necessary. So the Trekkies are zipping around at warp speed taking small chucks out of an nigh-on infinite amount of ships, with the Imperium being unable to strike back. feth it, says central command, and detonates every vortex warhead in the fleet, plunging the entire sector into the Warp. Enjoy tentacle-rape, Kirk, we know Sulu will." -Terminus
"This great fortress was a gift to the Blood Ravens from the legendary Imperial Fists. When asked about it Chapter Master Pugh was reported to say: "THEY TOOK WHAT!?""
2012/05/31 03:10:43
Subject: Re:China protects itself from the real threat
Alexzandvar wrote:Oh yes, another thread were people come to irrationally hate and dump on China.
There is nothing irrational about the so-called hate (or more accurately, disdain for the government's actions; the country itself I quite like, it has an interesting history and huge amounts of potential) that I have. Apparently one can hate on America's government all they want but how DARE we hate on China's government.
The people in the past who convinced themselves to do unspeakable things were no less human than you or I. They made their decisions; the only thing that prevents history from repeating itself is making different ones.
-- Adam Serwer
My blog
2012/05/31 03:16:39
Subject: Re:China protects itself from the real threat
Alexzandvar wrote:Oh yes, another thread were people come to irrationally hate and dump on China.
China will get there and "come out of it's repressive shell" on it's on, poking and prodding from the rest of the world just makes them feel all the more justified in there actions.
Like Germany did?
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2012/05/31 03:36:37
Subject: Re:China protects itself from the real threat
Alexzandvar wrote:Oh yes, another thread were people come to irrationally hate and dump on China.
There is nothing irrational about the so-called hate (or more accurately, disdain for the government's actions; the country itself I quite like, it has an interesting history and huge amounts of potential) that I have. Apparently one can hate on America's government all they want but how DARE we hate on China's government.
I'm not saying that you shouldn't. criticism breeds healthy government, but simply jumping on the hatewagon with out any valid points is silly.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/05/31 03:36:54
"The Imperium is nothing if not willing to go to any lengths necessary. So the Trekkies are zipping around at warp speed taking small chucks out of an nigh-on infinite amount of ships, with the Imperium being unable to strike back. feth it, says central command, and detonates every vortex warhead in the fleet, plunging the entire sector into the Warp. Enjoy tentacle-rape, Kirk, we know Sulu will." -Terminus
"This great fortress was a gift to the Blood Ravens from the legendary Imperial Fists. When asked about it Chapter Master Pugh was reported to say: "THEY TOOK WHAT!?""
2012/05/31 06:40:31
Subject: China protects itself from the real threat
Kid_Kyoto wrote:How things have changed. Today, Liu Xiaobo, the 2010 Nobel Peace Prize laureate, is serving an 11-year prison sentence. Unrelenting abuse and threats from state security forces sent me into exile to the United States in January. And barely four months later, Chen Guangcheng has made the same journey. Our three fates should remind the world that, contrary to myths and assumptions, economic liberalization and development will not inevitably lead to corresponding political liberalization and development. Economic power has only reinforced an increasingly absurd state power in China.
Thankyou for the article. It's an important reminder of the situation in China, and necessary counter to the assumption that political freedom in China will naturally follow economic prosperity. It will be a very difficult road for the Chinese to win political freedom, made even more difficult by the indifference of Western trading partners to the oppression.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
spaceXjam wrote:im from australia but i went to china for a few months just traveling and i expected to see allot of the communist agenda... however i thought china ( beijing, shanghai, wuhan and taijiang at least) were all dramatized by news. people think that the tianimen square incident is still covered up but everyone i spoke to knew about it. people think chinese hate westerns, where as infact they love everything western! they spend there hole life working minimum wage so their kids can one day have a somewhat "western life" they love american movies to death! infact almost every chinese person that spoke english had an american accent because they learnt english while watching american movies its pretty funny
I've been to China as well, and like you I loved the country and found the people there very friendly, but make no mistake, if you want to criticise government, even just to comment on the level of cronyism or corruption in lower levels of government, you face pretty much direct attack, maybe from government, more often from nationalist thugs whose actions government simply ignores.
I think people have an idea that an oppressive state is like you see in a movie, where there's police kicking down doors and dragging screaming people out into the street. For the most part their lives are pretty much as boring as ours. But that doesn't make such governments okay.
one thing that anyoys me is that people think china will be the next country to start a massive war but i studied chinese history at school and not once in china's history have they been the agressor of a war outside of their country. chinese ideology is that they are the centre of the world they do not need to impose themselves on anyone else... sorry i suck at writing good sentances
This is just factually wrong. First up it's just wrong in thinking there's an area of the world that is and always has been China - what you see today is the result of kingdoms fighting for centuries, looking to expand their territory, eventually becoming one Empire. Within China there are hundreds of ethnic minorities, descendants of older, conquered tribes and kingdoms.
And there is a big argument to be made that the way China goes about occupying new territories is far more odious than the norm. Consider Inner Mongolia (conquered by the Chinese) to Outer Mongolia (conquered by the Soviets). Both had their traditional cultures almost completely banned, and were given no political freedom. It was not a nice place to be, but when the Soviet Union collapsed Mongolia became its own country again, and began the slow road to recovering its native traditions.
On the other hand, Inner Mongolia can't ever be a country again. Almost as soon as the Chinese took it over they began forcably migrating Han Chinese into the region, and did this in such numbers that the native population quickly became a small minority in their own country.
Tibet is the same, no matter how sad Richard Gere gets about it, there can't ever really be a free Tibet, because it is no longer possible to draw up a sensible map in which the Tibetans would be a majority in their own country.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Alexzandvar wrote:Oh yes, another thread were people come to irrationally hate and dump on China.
There is, of course, a difference between China and its government.
I loved my time in China, found the people there lovely, and would tell anyone its a great place to visit (though I'd warn them it is still a developing country, and the infrastructure is not up to Western standards). But that does not mean the Chinese government is not an oppressive, totalitarian regime greatly in need of vast reform.
I feel sorry for China, they are constantly beat with the morals stick when we have wasted trillions fighting goat farmers in the Middle East.
Yeah, we never have threads about that.
I mean, fething seriously, have we actually got someone on Dakka saying we don't have enough threads on American politics. Is that a thing that's really happening?
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Kid_Kyoto wrote:In fact, since Mongolia is rightfully part of China they can claim everything up to Poland.
Its not aggression! Its manifest destiny!
Well, they rule over Inner Mongolia. Outer Mongolia is now its own nation called Mongolia, and Ghengis Khan was born quite near the capital of Mongolia, Ulaanbaatar.
So really, Poland needs to hand itself over to Mongolia, not China.
This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2012/05/31 07:03:24
“We may observe that the government in a civilized country is much more expensive than in a barbarous one; and when we say that one government is more expensive than another, it is the same as if we said that that one country is farther advanced in improvement than another. To say that the government is expensive and the people not oppressed is to say that the people are rich.”
Adam Smith, who must have been some kind of leftie or something.
2012/05/31 08:48:02
Subject: Re:China protects itself from the real threat
I went to China about 12 years ago, the change that has happened in the country is remarkable. Although, has been stated this is more of an economic change, and a general increase in industrial development and facilities rather than obvious increase in political freedoms.
Even that short time ago there were a lot more indicators of the country's communist past; massive, 50m wide banners with an old man sat in a garden with a row of skyscrapers in the background, with some Chinese text underneath that translated as "this is the country I built". The old man was Mao, and the posters have since disappeared.
Looking at what has happened in other parts of Asia gives me some hope for China, and that their freedoms will be allowed to develop to an extent. Perhaps in the same way as South Korea and Japan which both had totalitarian forms of government during their periods of rapid economic growth. I wonder if China looked at the failings of the Soviet Union, of Perestroika and Glasnost, of what Gorbachov was trying to achieve and have tried to learn from that mistake. Of course Gorbachov realised that change was essential - that the Soviet Union's system of government and economy was unsustainable, but when change did come it came too quickly and too fast for the government to keep control. Now, the country is owned by a handful of Oligarchs and old guard from the Kremlin, more corrupt than ever before, and Russia's economic and real power on the international stage has diminished. So, reforms are coming to China's political system, the way that the country does business, but they are coming slowly. Perhaps China's leaders are mindful that too much, too fast, and they risk going past the 'tipping point', even as they understand at the same time that change is necessary.
But, at the same time I don't think we can judge China with the same political and moral yardstick that we judge ourselves. The US political systems, which like its people sprang from European sensibilities, and that of the EU itself is built upon a national mindset and inherent culture that stretches back through thousands of years. China is the same, and no matter what we think of it, the country has to be allowed to find its own way. Many people in the West regard the 'one baby' policy as a horrific infringement of human rights. But, talk to a Chinese person about this and they see it in a different light - about a shared understanding within the community and the reasons and need for it, and at the same time shake their head in disbelief about neighbouring India forging ahead with exponential population growth and record rates of child mortality. It's important to realise that in much of Asia 'community', the interest of the group, takes precedence over the individual, and this is not unique to China. It is built into the very language and culture, where-as Western culture bends more towards the desire of the individual.
The movement towards a developed country is always a difficult and painful one. Change is always beset with problems, and if you look at the history of almost any country to go through a period of rapid industrialisation, the situation is always the same. In Korea for instance, the period of history under the rule of Park Chung-Hee, was characterised by the rapid change of the country - Economic, Industrial and social, all under the auspices of totalitarian rule. Now, this period from the early 60's until late 70's holds something of a bitter-sweet memory for many Koreans. On the one hand, younger Koreans who recognise the importance of the Economic growth he brought to South Korea hail him as one of the country's greatest ever leaders. For older Koreans however, those who lived through the gruelling 16-hour days of factory work, who had their homes destroyed to make room for that economic expansion, it will no doubt be a different story even for those who might otherwise have been pragmatic enough to know that such change was necessary.
So I think we have to give China time - no doubt as the middle class grows, they will take an increasing centre stage and perhaps ask for more of a political presence (as much as their culture demands). Whether this will then become similar to the US system, of a 'Gramscian Hegemony' (essentially, giving the people the impression of political power and freedom while a small elite maintain control), or lead to a greater level of political and cultural freedom, we won't know yet. In any case, I think the next 20 years or so will make extremely interesting viewing, both concerning China and the wider Geo-political arena.
Sebster wrote:I mean, fething seriously, have we actually got someone on Dakka saying we don't have enough threads on American politics. Is that a thing that's really happening?
It's a weird sensation, but apparently we do.
The people in the past who convinced themselves to do unspeakable things were no less human than you or I. They made their decisions; the only thing that prevents history from repeating itself is making different ones.
-- Adam Serwer
My blog
2012/05/31 13:13:33
Subject: Re:China protects itself from the real threat
Alexzandvar wrote:Oh yes, another thread were people come to irrationally hate and dump on China.
China will get there and "come out of it's repressive shell" on it's on, poking and prodding from the rest of the world just makes them feel all the more justified in there actions.
Not to mention the fact of the matter remains is that countries like America need to have limits on the amounts of children you can have.
Considering the U.S. birth rate is hovering at almost exactly 2, it's pretty safe to say that the U.S. isn't contributing much to world overpopulation.
