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Made in gb
Prospector with Steamdrill






In a game last night my opponant's BSB was broken. I charged him with a unit, which obviously caused him to flee, but the unit still reached him and wiped him out.

Now should I have counted the extra 100vp for him?


   
Made in us
Stone Bonkers Fabricator General





Beijing, China

how was he broken? I thought standards were left in the combat they broke from? Or is that an old edition.

Dark Mechanicus and Renegade Iron Hand Dakka Blog
My Dark Mechanicus P&M Blog. Mostly Modeling as I paint very slowly. Lots of kitbashed conversions of marines and a few guard to make up a renegade Iron Hand chapter and Dark Mechanicus Allies. Bionics++  
   
Made in gb
Prospector with Steamdrill






I think he may already have fled as a charge reaction but avoided being caught. he wasn't part of a unit.

   
Made in us
Incubus





Georgia

If you caught him then I am pretty sure you do get the extra points. Is it 100? I thought it was 50.

   
Made in gb
Prospector with Steamdrill






I thought it was 100, it may be 50. In the rules it states you get the points if they break from combat of if you you beat them in combat. My opponant's point was that the models are not removed in the combat phase but in the movement phase.
In the section on charging fleeing troops it states that you 'remove them as casulties'.

   
Made in gb
Unhealthy Competition With Other Legions





York, North Yorkshire, England

Exergy wrote:how was he broken? I thought standards were left in the combat they broke from? Or is that an old edition.


If they break from the combat the standard makes a last stand, the details I'm unsure of but in essence he dies.

tp_1983 wrote:I think he may already have fled as a charge reaction but avoided being caught. he wasn't part of a unit.


Then the standard would stay alive and not do the 'last stand' rule stated above, this is correct.

tp_1983 wrote:I thought it was 100, it may be 50. In the rules it states you get the points if they break from combat of if you you beat them in combat. My opponant's point was that the models are not removed in the combat phase but in the movement phase.
In the section on charging fleeing troops it states that you 'remove them as casulties'.


It is my understanding that you would get the VP's in this situation. As they were still beaten in the CC phase. Running away in a charge reaction is not part of the movement phase. Someone else may be able to confirm however.

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Made in us
Incubus





Georgia

deejaybainbridge wrote:
Exergy wrote:how was he broken? I thought standards were left in the combat they broke from? Or is that an old edition.


If they break from the combat the standard makes a last stand, the details I'm unsure of but in essence he dies.

tp_1983 wrote:I think he may already have fled as a charge reaction but avoided being caught. he wasn't part of a unit.


Then the standard would stay alive and not do the 'last stand' rule stated above, this is correct.

tp_1983 wrote:I thought it was 100, it may be 50. In the rules it states you get the points if they break from combat of if you you beat them in combat. My opponant's point was that the models are not removed in the combat phase but in the movement phase.
In the section on charging fleeing troops it states that you 'remove them as casulties'.


It is my understanding that you would get the VP's in this situation. As they were still beaten in the CC phase. Running away in a charge reaction is not part of the movement phase. Someone else may be able to confirm however.


I am of the mindset of this being correct.

   
Made in gb
Prospector with Steamdrill






My gut says I should ahve got the points but the Fleeing, pursueing and overrunning are carried out in the movement phase, not the cc phase.

   
Made in us
Incubus





Georgia

They are carried out during movement but carry over to the cc phase. (You get points for charging etc for combat resolution) So I would suspect you get points for running down a hero, lord, or BSB

   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut






Page 143
Seized Standards
You score an additional 25 victory points for every enemy standard bearer that was removed due to the Last Stand rule (see page 94), or was slain in close combat (remember this can only happen when the rest of his unit, except the champion, are dead). If the enemy Battle Standard Bearer is slain under these circumstances, his death instead scores an additional 100 victory points.

page 94:
Last Stands
The only time a standard bearer can be removed as a casualty before the musician and other rank-and-file models is if the unit breaks from combat. When this happens, we assume that the standard bearer fights to the very last, defending the honor that the rest of his unit have abandoned in their flight. If a unit breaks from combat, the standard bearer is slain immediately - remove the model. His place must be taken by a rank-and-file model from the rear of the unit, if there is one available. The victorious enemy can still overrun or pursue as normal.


Given that the "charging a fleeing unit" section on page 23 makes no mention of the units destruction counting as close combat, I'd say that "No, you don't get the extra VP". The death of the standard bearer fails to meet either of the qualifications required for seizing a standard: You did not kill him in close combat (in fact the unit never sees close combat), nor did he die as a result of Last Stand.

Flee! is most certainly a charge reaction taken during the movement phase, as per page 17.
   
Made in gb
Decrepit Dakkanaut




No, you dont get the extra VPs. You cut them down as they ran away and not in combat.
   
Made in us
Incubus





Georgia

Thanks streamdragon, I did not have the rule book with me and could not look it up.

   
Made in us
The Conquerer






Waiting for my shill money from Spiral Arm Studios

I believe you get the 100 VPs for killing the BSB. It doesn't matter how he dies, just that he does.

The same for the 100 VPs for killing the General. If he gets run down like a dog or cut down in combat, he's dead either way.

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Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut






Check like, 3 posts up. It most certainly DOES matter how the BSB dies. The general, you are correct, it doesn't matter if they get cut down in CC or blows themself up with a miscast. The standards, on the other hand, have very specific circumstances for seizing: Broke from CC, or killed in CC. Anything else does not qualify.
   
Made in ie
Confident Halberdier




I'd say that you do get the points. The bsb died by you running him over therefore you killed him
   
Made in ca
Tzeentch Veteran Marine with Psychic Potential






Victoria, B.C. Canada

None of the rules for getting points for standards apply here so no you wouldn't get points by the rules.



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Made in us
Killer Klaivex




Oceanside, CA

tp_1983 wrote:In a game last night my opponant's BSB was broken. I charged him with a unit, which obviously caused him to flee, but the unit still reached him and wiped him out.

Now should I have counted the extra 100vp for him?



If the BSB's unit is broken, he's killed when they brake.
If the BSB's unit had failed a panic test or fled a charge, then you could having the BSB fleeing in a unit.

If fleeing, charged, caught and wiped out, you do get the +100 points.

-Matt

 thedarkavenger wrote:

So. I got a game with this list in. First game in at least 3-4 months.
 
   
Made in us
Stone Bonkers Fabricator General





Beijing, China

Grey Templar wrote:I believe you get the 100 VPs for killing the BSB. It doesn't matter how he dies, just that he does.

The same for the 100 VPs for killing the General. If he gets run down like a dog or cut down in combat, he's dead either way.


the BSB has to be killed and his standard collected. If you kill him in the magic phase, but blasting him, or in the shooting phase, by blasting him then you do not get the 100VP. The general, I believe he can be blasted.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
HawaiiMatt wrote:

If the BSB's unit is broken, he's killed when they brake.

-Matt


I know standards are autokilled but are BSB heros?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/05/31 23:45:39


Dark Mechanicus and Renegade Iron Hand Dakka Blog
My Dark Mechanicus P&M Blog. Mostly Modeling as I paint very slowly. Lots of kitbashed conversions of marines and a few guard to make up a renegade Iron Hand chapter and Dark Mechanicus Allies. Bionics++  
   
Made in gb
Decrepit Dakkanaut




Yes. Having a Slann i know the pain of this....

Hawaii matt - sorry, think youre wrong on this. The rules for gaining the +100VPs for BSBs are very very specific, and being caught while fleeing from a charge is NOT one of those on the list.
   
Made in us
Auspicious Aspiring Champion of Chaos





On the perfumed wind

I'm with Nosferatu on this one. There doesn't look to be a lot of wiggle room on the rules for claiming this bonus.

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On a delicate chain at her throat, she keeps it with her to this day.”
 
   
Made in us
Cold-Blooded Saurus Warrior




I agree as well. You only get the bonus VP from breaking the unit in combat (via Last Stand), or by killing him outright through wounds in close combat.

I suggest you don't believe anything posted by thedarkavenger unless confirmed by other regular posters here at Dakka. He has shown he is incapable of basic English comprehension.
 
   
 
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