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Greetings!

A brief introduction: I've always played board games, and lacked the funding when I was younger to make the move to Fantasy/40k (it was the 90's, there wasn't much alternative). My friends would have their own collections that I could borrow, and I was always more interested in the gaming side of things anyway. It's only in the last few years that my interest has now broadened to include modelling and painting at all, and I'm now fit to burst with the need to paint and build my own stuff.

My question is this: With what should I start my paint collection? My recollection from reading various forums over the past months/years is that Vallejo make a fine product, and Devlan Mud is mighty handy. But what do you guys think? I'm looking to be building scenery as well as painting up models. I'll be building my skills up from the ground floor, as I've touched brush to about 15 models in my life and have yet to work out and develop my own techniques. I'm also not looking to spend multiple hundreds of dollars to get myself started.

My thanks to you for reading this. I have loved the output of work, but also the strongly helpful and supportive community of Dakka. Of particular inspiration to me was the Jade Vessel inquisimunda thread ( http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/208707.page ) featuring Migsula and others.

ps Currently I'm playing Malifaux, with future incliniations towards Infinity, Necro / Inquisi munda, and Tau in 40k if I run out of things to do/can ever afford anything above a Combat Patrol.

Hi there, welcome to the hobby!

If you are looking for a good starter set of paints I would personally go for vallejo due to the bottle design and price in comparison to GW, you should aim to get the basics. Black, white, a strong red, blue and yellow, and for your own ease a couple of browns of your choosing. You will be able to mix up nearly any colour you want with those without spending a fortune, and if you grab a pot of GW brown and black washes then you are good to go

The other important thing to get early is a decent brush and not anything very cheap, as it will be extremely detrimental to you learning how to paint if your brush is working against you constantly.

All of the paint lines out there do some things great and somethings ...well meh.

Vallejo, is my favorite for reds and browns. I loved the old line of GW metalics.

I just picked up the Army Paintor Metallics as that is what I tend to prime with and there is something awesome about an exact color match when i need to do my last touch ups.

Buying paints is something personal, your going to find what you like and what works for you and your style.

+1 the above. black, white, RGB, brown, (optional: green, a different shade of RGB if you have the money for extra variety for mixing/blending options)

i would also say..if you can, get the new lamhime medium technical stuff from gw (i think thats what it's called) it's a decent enough paint thinner and can also help in mixing paints. it's good to experiment with and create washes nd stuff out of a color you mixed but want to brush on lightly.

of course you could go and find some online tutorials about making your own thinner and use that instead.

Well, I started out with GW, but I would advise against it only due to the cost. At the moment, I'm experimenting myself, but Reaper looks like a good choice to me.

Anyway, B+W, RBY, Brown, Green, grab the basic set of GW washes (Badab Black, Gryphonne Sepia, Devlan Mud. Sorry, unfamiliar with new set of names), and I absolutely agree with getting a decent brush.

Try to research what that is, because I'm not even sure (I'll be putting my brush in file 13 soon). Google "40k + paintbrush" and see what people say. I typically hear Windsor/Newton pop up often, but again: I'm in that battle as well.

1 extra thing I'll add:
***Masters Brush Soap***
If you're going to invest in a good brush, you might as well take care of it.

I have to say, go for the Vallejo game colour starter set, i think all the bases are covered with it, they are cheaper and you get more paint, dropper bottles mean less wasted paint.
Although there is nothing truly wrong with the new GW paints, you have to buy more paints of similar colours if you are starting one army and then there is the inflexibility of starting new armies as you need yet more colours (bases and foundations).
I personally buy about 4-5 new paints a month for myself, and about the same for my son and depending where you get them the vallejo paints can be £1 cheaper!

Id go with GW for now, they are good paints, very easy to get and most importantly youd be able to follow lots of painting tutorials without looking at conversion charts as the majority ive seen use the gw names.

I stared with the mantic paint set. CAn pick it up cheap. From total wargamer or waylaid and gives you a decent starting set along with test models. They are just rebranded army painter paints.

http://www.thewarstore.com/product43713.html

I think that would be the best thing to start with, and perhaps add a dark brown wash in there, either GW or Vallejo.

Many thanks to all who've posted their advice, made me feel all wam and fuzzy inside.

Alright, the brush/es will not be scrimped upon.

If I was just going to go out and buy paint without advice, I would probably have gone and started with GW. I object to their prices in general, mostly their recent/incoming price hike. Also having heard that their bottles dry out quicker, and getting less for more, made me wonder what alternatives are best.

Well, dependent upon my FLGS, it sounds like Vallejo might be the way forward then! Unless Mantic is any better? Has anybody here used both?

And what about undercoat spray?

Primers vary by country for the most part. For that I'd suggest asking Aussie players here.

For brushes, might I recommend: https://www.rosemaryandco.com/index.php?currency=AUD&cPath=275_365&osCsid=9s57t6i741v9h2lbd9e9ffss35

For under $29AUS you can get everything from a 1 and smaller(which are the only brushes I use anymore). Shipping may be like $10-15, but the brushes themselves are top quality. Compare to a DaVinci or Winsor and Newton which cost 2-4x as much as the Rosemary ones.

I'm moving onto Vallejo from GW but their new line looks interesting, just a shame they didn't move over to dropper bottles. I'm interested in the Reaper Master Series too but it's not easy to find in the UK. They use a triad system so you get base and two highlights in each set I think. I hear they can be a bit thin sometimes as they are pre-thinned at the factory.

Arcticpangolin where about in OZ are you if i may ask?

i havn't come accross any vallejo in flgs in melbourne...although there is one hobby store that is looking to get them in, i have however found p3 and reaper. if the drying out bothers you, try to find a little pipette and look into a home made wet pallet, that way you can use paint pots without worrying.

if i run out of my current color selection i would love to try the p3 range as the shop wich stocks them is close to me and they are cheap. if anyone wants to let us know about their 2cents on the p3 range please post up.

brushes are hell to find here tho, at least good ones. we have the roymac ones but they are not very good, if you do get them i suggest the synthetic roymac brushes as their tips and bristles are much better...otherwise GW brushes will be the best you can find in stores.
Aerethan, thanks for the great link to rosemary brushes...i think i will be ordering from there from now on as the GW prices really bug me, not so much the price but the arrogance that they think they can charge more for no reason.

I use cheap hobby brand paints myself, now that I can't match the old GW paints to the new ones.

It forces you to use multiple thin layers to get good coverage, which makes subtle shading a lot more automatic.

I've also done some heavy experimenting with cheap craft paints (Americana mostly. $0.99 for 3x the paint of a GW pot). Needs heavy thinning, and the pigment count is low, but whatever. I mix my own colors to match old GW system anyway

Rosemary and Co? Didn't I see them in the CMoN webstore? (Cool Mini or Not)

How do they compare to the Windsor/Newton and other competitors?

CMON does sell them but they don't restock often, so more popular sizes are usually sold out.

They are made from the same hair as Winsor & Newton and DaVinci brushes. The reason they are much less expensive is that R&C doesn't have the corporate overhead that other companies have. They almost exclusively deal in brushes. Also, R&C deals directly, so there is no retailer cut in the price. CMON tacks on a few dollars to the original price of them.

Luckily they are priced well enough that you can test one out with little financial risk to decide if you like them. If I had my way I'd start a US site for them and buy in bulk to save on the shipping, which would make them much more accessible to us here in the states.

I agree with everything iffy has said.

Brush wise, i'd go with kolinsky sable series 7 (miniture)
Size wise, depends really, i float between 000, 00 and 0.
On average they are around £10, but worth every bit of that for control and life span.

Aye series 7 are really fantastic. I have heard great things about rosemary but I have a deep love for pure sable as it is just so very easy to keep in good condition.

I've been using the same size 0 series 7 6 hours a day 4 days a week for a year, and it is still near perfect. Keeping it clean with masters brush cleaner will give you a brush that lasts a very long time.

And as its basically made of hair, whenever it feels a bit dry or loses its spring I just coat it in a layer of my moisturising hair conditioner I use and leave it overnight! By the next day it is literally good as new Haha.

Jackal wrote:
Brush wise, i'd go with kolinsky sable series 7 (miniture)

Id disagree with the miniature part, the normal series 7s are much better. The miniature range dont hold enough paint and you get much worse tip dry.

I would look at the other end first, and figure out what your painting, then think about color schemes. There's a lot of armies with different colors and styles out there. Even base coating a fig white vs black is personal preference.

Your gonna find the consistancy of paints is different between the companies. GW paint tends to be thinker and REALLY needs to be thinned out. I can actually get away with not thinning down a lot of the Vallajo paints. You'll find your own tricks. When I first switched over to Vallajo, I almost had to relearn how to paint cause of the difference in paint consistancy.

One thing that really makes painting easier. GW is now making their paint range in almost color schemes. Almost every major color and specific popular armies come with a basic paint 2 highlights, a shade and sometimes a glaze. Those base paints are REALLY nice for painting right over black. One of the problems new painters have is they try and paint yellow or red on black and it looks "dirty". The base paints of GW were called "Foundation" paints, now I think theyre just called base paints are REALLY good for beginners. I can't stress this enough. If I was starting out, Id get the GW foundtion paint for yellow, red, and a few or the other colors you think you'll use a lot. They really save time. You almost feel like your cheating when you do 1 color, a ink to shade, a highlight and your done, for table top quality stuff.

GW vs Vallajo. This is all personal preference. I think GW has better metallics, but they dry out faster. Vallajo paints seem to pop better. I use their yellows or reds on 28mm and WOW the colors are really bright and crisp (even on black).

Good Luck and always post questions here theres a lot of helpful members.

Sorry to reply-ers for my delay. Many thanks for your time and advice.

@Aerathan: Thanks for the Rosemary link, I'll get a credit card soon and grab the size 1 and smaller. Their shipping cost is fantastic. I was looking to get some Red Dead Redemption playing cards from the Rockstar website ( https://www.rockstarwarehouse.com/Product.aspx?pSKU=RS-RDR-CARDS-DLX&vSKU=RS-RDR-CARDS-DLX ) as they'd go fantastically with Malifaux, but it looks as though the shipping on that $10 USD item is $47.03. How they can charge that when Rosemary are shipping from UK and for cheaper is beyond me.

@Rogues Gambit: Updated my profile, I'm in Brisbane. I share your dislike of GW arrogance. I'm going to look around but I think we also lack for Vallejo. I might order a Vallejo starter set, but I might also just cave and go for P3 and let you know how it goes, although I do lack of experience for comparison to other paint ranges

@Ifalna: Thanks for stressing the quality of brush, and the useful for tips for longevity. Great lateral thinking!

@fenrir1997: I'll definitely find some Masters Brush Soap then! Thanks mightily.

Rogues Gambit wrote:Arcticpangolin where about in OZ are you if i may ask?

i havn't come accross any vallejo in flgs in melbourne...although there is one hobby store that is looking to get them in, i have however found p3 and reaper. if the drying out bothers you, try to find a little pipette and look into a home made wet pallet, that way you can use paint pots without worrying.

Mind Games in the CBD definitely stocks them. I believe Milsims also stocks them, but not sure on that.

if i run out of my current color selection i would love to try the p3 range as the shop wich stocks them is close to me and they are cheap. if anyone wants to let us know about their 2cents on the p3 range please post up.

P3 are pretty good. The pigment is a little more dense than GW paints, so they can need more thinning, but I'm pretty happy with them.

brushes are hell to find here tho, at least good ones. we have the roymac ones but they are not very good, if you do get them i suggest the synthetic roymac brushes as their tips and bristles are much better...otherwise GW brushes will be the best you can find in stores.
Aerethan, thanks for the great link to rosemary brushes...i think i will be ordering from there from now on as the GW prices really bug me, not so much the price but the arrogance that they think they can charge more for no reason.

If you're serious about brushes, go to an Art supply store and buy Windsor & Newton Series 7. Or order them online from somewhere like Blick's (I was put onto Blicks from Les Bursley's guides.)


As for which Vallejo paints to buy when starting out, you could consider any of these sets:

http://www.maelstromgames.co.uk/index.php?act=pro&pre=val_hob_ess_gcl_102_000
http://www.maelstromgames.co.uk/index.php?act=pro&pre=val_hob_ess_gcl_101_000
(or if you're really keen)
http://www.maelstromgames.co.uk/index.php?act=pro&pre=val_hob_ess_gcl_103_000

Maelstrom have a 20% off coupon for Aussies and some others right now - I notice you're in Australia.
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/454474.page

Rosemary & Co. series 33 are the EXACT same hair used in W&N series 7, at less than half the price. The main reason for the price difference is that R&C sell direct, not thru retailers. W&N do not sell direct. So Dick Blick needs to make their $5 on every brush, while R&C keeps all their profit. They don't have massive corporate overhead like an army of employees and buildings to pay for.

I refer you to this thread of people singing the praises of R&C brushes, of which series 33 are the flagship sable brushes. http://warhammer.org.uk/phpBB/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=89516