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I was checking out the bat rep between JY2 and the Nids here

Couple of things struck me.

1) JY2 loads up his surf lords - MSS, SW, PS
2) He voluntarily disembarks early, when there are targets of opportunity.

I always advocate taking MSS and at least the PS on a surf lord, as I find that the overlord is more useful and lives longer when the barge gets shot out. Also, I will voluntarily disembark if there are targets of opportunity and go do some assaulting. I can then use the CCB to contest objectives late game (because opponents don't focus on it as much when the overlord is out of it). Course, if I'm going to spend points on MSS, SW and PS, I figure I might as well get some value out of it!

However, many people post lists using naked overlords (with a war scythe obviously) - I always assume they die fast when out of the barge and think it is a bit of a waste.

What do you do?

I keep mine naked n cheap. At 180 pts you unlock a court, get a flat out vehicle, and some of the best anti tank in the game. By keeping him cheap, I can drop points elsewhere. If you have the spare pts, sure, why not. But to make each one cost more than a tenth of your list (at 2k) can be a tough pill to swallow.

As for what to do with him, flat out everywhere to keep that barge alive and those free 3 str 7 attacks popping vehicles. I only voluntarily jump him out if I'm sure it'll be game changing by popping 2 vehicles a turn or tying up that incredible unit causing you trouble (long fangs, oblits, etc...).

What does MSS stand for?

MSS = Mind Shackle scarabs

Naked and mss occasionally, might try sw depending how the next few test games I do go

I tend to take mine with WS, MSS, and Weave. I'll drop the MSS before the weave.

Phase Shifters tend to be too expensive for me. I can do

And really, it depends on the situation. I'll generally stay embarked, but if there is a transport that I know needs to die, or a unit that I need to tie up, then I'll jump out. There is no single best answer for this kind of thing.

I am playing against Nids tomorrow and am takign mine with PS, MSS and Scythe.

He can then get the sweep attacks btu can disembark and smacka MC if he needs to (in this situation the 2+ armour save will be pointless as MCs will ignore armour anyway).

Also, dont discount the underslung gun on the CCB. I plan on using that as the guy charges in. The gauss cannon will ignore the majority of armour saves at AP3.

Since I started this, I've been experimenting with different load outs. I'm now leaning towards thinking that if the overlord lives to the end of the game, I'm not using him enough and/or I've over kitted him.

Kinda goes against the grain to have overlords walking around near barges, but it does seem to be working.

I take an almost-naked Overlord: Sempiternal Weave/Warscythe only. I tend to keep them in the Barge while there's still vehicles to pop or powerfists to pick out. But I'll voluntarily bail for particularly delicious units: nearby Long Fangs/Devs/Lootaz/Psyflemen and other weak-in-CC/shooty units than an Overlord can take on solo. You're not going to take these types of units out with Sweep Attacks or Necrons' short-range shooting alone, but an assault will do it. Maybe not right away, but if you're stopping their shooting that's just as good.

My Overlord will get his ass handed to him by dedicated assault units (especially those with power weapons, hammers, fists), but that's what Wraiths are for. Generally, they'll do the job a lot more reliably and efficiently. I just can't see pouring all those points into an Overlord than can still be instant-deathed by a Force Weapon or a DCCW, or still easily succumb to power weapons (or just a high volume of regular attacks!). Besides not being all that resilient, the Overlord makes only 3 attacks at WS4. He is not a close-combat powerhouse and I don't feel very motivated to spend 150 pts (2x Weave, 2x MSS, 2x Shifter) pretending he is. IMO, it's a lot better relegating the Overlord to a few specific roles and letting the rest of your army cover the other bases.

I take them fully kitted out. OL - MSS, Warscythe, MSS, SW, PS - Command Barge - 255

He has yet to let me down. He has actually only died once - to bolter fire (3 units of bolter fire) - in the 6 months or so I have used him. Well, that's not entirely accurate, he has died but I have good luck with his reanimation. He routinely kills MCs, dreadnoughts, tac squads, if you pick his targets carefully... he should dominate.

Point is, I usually use him (or them if I'm running 2) as a free safety. My opponents usually like to get the drop on you with some surprise "shoot me up" type target so I save my OL for that target. If there are no opportunities like this, I usually try to couple him with the wraiths so he can take advantage of the Whip Coils too. If not, he is a beast on his own... killing isolated units and destroying light/medium vehicles like they don't exist.

Move 12" - disembark 2" - this usually gets him in coherancy and then they assault!

I've found the Sempiternal Weave to be a must take. I also use them in similar fashion to Jy2, in that I voluntarily disembark. The main difference is that I can't just go against anything. Still, with the 2+ save, the Overlord is a nightmare for MSU, Long Fangs, Dreds, and general small units without powerfists or mass power weapons.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, I've noticed that lots of people on the survey take the fully loaded Overlord but don't disembark until they have to. Why? It seems like a colossal waste of points to me...

JGrand wrote:I've found the Sempiternal Weave to be a must take.

Absolutely agree with this. The 2+ makes all the difference, especially against the ever-abundant S4 (either from shooting or assault). I've taken naked Overlords enough times to see that they'll die to bolters or a tac squad...and that's just too much to bear. I mean, I don't mind my Overlords being somewhat expendable, but I at least want to make the enemy work a little for the kill! And if they're using their melta/lascannons/other AP1/2 guns to shoot through the Weave, well, the second Overlord is probably giving an approving thumbs up from his still in-tact Barge.

JGrand wrote:I've found the Sempiternal Weave to be a must take. I also use them in similar fashion to Jy2, in that I voluntarily disembark. The main difference is that I can't just go against anything. Still, with the 2+ save, the Overlord is a nightmare for MSU, Long Fangs, Dreds, and general small units without powerfists or mass power weapons.


...

Just to double check - you know that Dread hit with S10 power weapons right? So your OL with Weave wont get an armour save, MSS wont do anything either, and i think Dreads tend to have I4 so will hit first (might be wrong on this one)

Yea you need phase shifter if you're taking on dreadnoughts... and then it's a numbers game... insta-kill or dead dread

Just to double check - you know that Dread hit with S10 power weapons right? So your OL with Weave wont get an armour save, MSS wont do anything either, and i think Dreads tend to have I4 so will hit first (might be wrong on this one)

I was mainly talking about Psyfleman and Rifleman. I don't see too many CCW Dreds these days.

JGrand wrote:Also, I've noticed that lots of people on the survey take the fully loaded Overlord but don't disembark until they have to. Why? It seems like a colossal waste of points to me...

I'm wondering that too. That's 70+ points of stuff that isn't being used until late game, unless they are losing the CCB early. Maybe the CCB is being held back for late game use?

But again, if you have a kitted out overlord in a CCB, why not use it aggressively?

whigwam wrote:

JGrand wrote:I've found the Sempiternal Weave to be a must take.

Absolutely agree with this. The 2+ makes all the difference, especially against the ever-abundant S4 (either from shooting or assault). I've taken naked Overlords enough times to see that they'll die to bolters or a tac squad...and that's just too much to bear. I mean, I don't mind my Overlords being somewhat expendable, but I at least want to make the enemy work a little for the kill! And if they're using their melta/lascannons/other AP1/2 guns to shoot through the Weave, well, the second Overlord is probably giving an approving thumbs up from his still in-tact Barge.

While I normally take SW, MSS, PS to address some of the issues above, I'm currently experimenting with only SW/MSS. Generally, there are only a couple of power weapons, and MSS generally takes out 1. For 15 points I think MSS is gold, particularly going up against lone MC/IC - if they go off you don't get attacked at all!

It's a matter of cost effectiveness for me. How many turns and how many phases will this be pulling some weight for me? What is my overlord for? Does the bonus make it do something new and better? Does it improve what it already does by a great amount?

I'm still tooling around with it, but so far, I love my cheap over lords, but I can see times when other bonuses shine. A take all comers decision has yet to be made.

My other point is part of the reason I love the CCB is that I get to pop things or mess with the opponent very early in my turn. It sets things up without really sacrificing any of my aggressiveness. I hate leaning too heavily on close combat in my plan for a turn because it reduces my ability to react to surprises, it wholly commits resources and leads to some weird disadvantageous situations. I'm not looking for incentive to jump my cover defying speedy, silver bullet into the 2nd half of its life my opponent is supposed to have to work to make happen. There are great times to hop him out, but those times aren't ALWAYS.

Lucre wrote:It's a matter of cost effectiveness for me. How many turns and how many phases will this be pulling some weight for me? What is my overlord for? Does the bonus make it do something new and better? Does it improve what it already does by a great amount?

I'm still tooling around with it, but so far, I love my cheap over lords, but I can see times when other bonuses shine. A take all comers decision has yet to be made.

My other point is part of the reason I love the CCB is that I get to pop things or mess with the opponent very early in my turn. It sets things up without really sacrificing any of my aggressiveness. I hate leaning too heavily on close combat in my plan for a turn because it reduces my ability to react to surprises, it wholly commits resources and leads to some weird disadvantageous situations. I'm not looking for incentive to jump my cover defying speedy, silver bullet into the 2nd half of its life my opponent is supposed to have to work to make happen. There are great times to hop him out, but those times aren't ALWAYS.

Sacrificing the sweep attack is a big minus for me as well. However, embark, sweep 12", disembark, assault definitely would have its uses.

I'm now tossing up between naked overlord permanently in barge, and kitted out overlord jumping in and out. I think the answer for me is to have one of each.

MarkCron wrote:

Lucre wrote:It's a matter of cost effectiveness for me. How many turns and how many phases will this be pulling some weight for me? What is my overlord for? Does the bonus make it do something new and better? Does it improve what it already does by a great amount?

I'm still tooling around with it, but so far, I love my cheap over lords, but I can see times when other bonuses shine. A take all comers decision has yet to be made.

My other point is part of the reason I love the CCB is that I get to pop things or mess with the opponent very early in my turn. It sets things up without really sacrificing any of my aggressiveness. I hate leaning too heavily on close combat in my plan for a turn because it reduces my ability to react to surprises, it wholly commits resources and leads to some weird disadvantageous situations. I'm not looking for incentive to jump my cover defying speedy, silver bullet into the 2nd half of its life my opponent is supposed to have to work to make happen. There are great times to hop him out, but those times aren't ALWAYS.

Sacrificing the sweep attack is a big minus for me as well. However, embark, sweep 12", disembark, assault definitely would have its uses.

I'm now tossing up between naked overlord permanently in barge, and kitted out overlord jumping in and out. I think the answer for me is to have one of each.

You can't embark and Disembark on the same turn.

You can't embark and Disembark on the same turn

I knew there was a reason I haven't been doing that! Shame you can't do that though - that would be awesome.

That sort of firms the types of SurfLords up doesn't it?

a) (Primarily for AT use, some sniping of MC/IC) Naked, in the barge, keep him there until barge gets shot out; or
b) (One man killer squad) Kitted out to some extent - Hop in and out.

Of course, you can mix it up, but the above seem to be the most points efficient for the two main uses.