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Greetings.

I guess I should preface this with an admission: I hate the Dark Angels. HATE. Loathe. Despise. Abhor. Detest.

Well, you get the idea and the thesaurus was running out of synonyms.

I can't put my finger on exactly what it is that pulls up this black tidal wave of seething rage whenever someone mentions them. Maybe their cliched "we know secrets and we're not tellin' you" attitude or the most ridiculous name possible for their Primarch? I grew up in Texas, and besides seeing it as a poor way of writing Lionel Jonson, there's also Lion "The" Jonson thanks to the Spanish influences of living here(yes, I know the weirdo spelling was explained in Descent of Angels but I still don't care for it, and see below). Or maybe it's that I see so many over the top conversions where people pile on greenstuff robes and feathered wings to gaudy proportions.

I even tried reading their HH books. I really did. I couldn't do it.

However, I do happen to like their rules and the livery of their second founding/successor chapter, the Angels of Vengeance. Cool name, cool paint scheme(when do space marines not look good in black?), cool rules. Sounds like a plan.

I actually had a go at some AoV termies a long, long time ago, back when the 2nd edition metal ones where the only ones available. I had even ordered a sheet of decals from Griffon Games with their chapter badge, which they no longer sell, most likely due to an unfriendly email by GW lawyers. I finished one out as a test, but he's missing at the moment, so here's a shot of one of the other four that didn't make it past the basecoating and early highlight stages:





Mmmmm, old metal Deathwing termies.

So, what brings me here today? Mostly that my internal critic didn't like how my Imperial Fists were going, and GW releasing their own AoV decal sheet(which I picked up two of). Plus, I can't seem to get away from the marines.

For a starting point, I decided on a terminator captain because I'd been wanting to finish up a model of one that I've had for years:





Long ago mauled by me in my early 40k years in some forgotten conversion attempt, I started to rebuild him last year. Looking through the Dark Angels codices (I have the last 3 incarnations) for inspiration from the art, I began to notice a theme in their armor: skulls. Lots and lots of them, as well as purity seals. High collars on both tactical and terminator armor and a lot of power armor inspired by the plate armor of old knights. That I can do.

What did I see little to nothing of? Angel wings all over the place.

Dusting off my old termie captain, I sat down last night and had a go at him with some greystuff and plastic strip:





Originally, the collar was going to be taller, but it prevented me from getting the head back in place, and I wanted to be able to paint it separately. I also removed the rosarius-looking decoration from his chest because it was interfering with the placement of the collar and rebuilt the cloth in its place. I'll find somewhere else for it to go at a later point. I've extended the right side of his tabard to make it look more like a stormcoat, and will be adding a tabard on the backside with skull "buttons". It was an idea I shamelessly ripped off from the old limited edition DA Company Master figure of mine:





I really like this guy and may see about reproducing him as an AoV marine with the similar DA Company Master that was recently added to the Finecast roster, rather than chopping up a $60+ figure. I've also bee ogling the AoV chapter master that Chris Borer did 5 years ago for some more inspiration. If you don't know the figure or the man behind it, you should: http://www.fullborerminiatures.com/gallery/chorazin.html

I've always felt the same way about the Dark Angels and their kin as Chris mentions in their description, partly from the fluff and partly from their rules - they're patient and careful, so I'm going to make a serious effort to tone down my habit of making running/charging/action-y poses and try to relate that patient stubbornness they're known for. And from this, I'll set down a few guidelines to follow for my theme:

1) Lots of skulls and purity seals
2) Some robes and tabards, but I'm not going to go crazy and do a whole robed army
3) Aside from the chapter badge and a few decorations here and there, the angel wings will be kept to a minimum.
4) No feathers. I never understood why the Deathwing had random feathers all over the place, but they'll be absent here.
5) Bolters will be black, not red.
6) A sprinkling of knight plate armor influences, and I might even steal some ideas from WHFB warrior priests(similar high collars, purity seals, etc).

As always, thanks for looking and C&C welcome.

-BCK

I bulked up the flange on the right shoulderpad and got the back of the tabard/robe done, but I'm not real happy with it and will probably try again.




I'm considering some lettering on the big flange, maybe his name or some other lettering, but if anyone has an idea or suggestion, I'm all ears.

-BCK

After some more work on the original left arm, I realized that I had just done too much damage to it those years ago when I first sawed it off, and reluctantly put it aside.

Borrowing a GK termie arm and a FW shoulder pad, I started making progress again. At one point, I tried to prime the figure to check for little imperfections, but the humidity was having none of that and I ended up tossing him into the tub of Simple Green earlier, so excuse the mess.




There's still a little more putty work to do here and there, but I think I'm pretty near to being finished with the building stage.

-BCK

I was watching the extended version of "Kingdom of Heaven" last night when I got an idea for a new figure to add to my slow-grow AoV army. Btw, if you haven't seen the extended cut, it's worth it. SOOOOO much better than the original hack job that the studio forced Ridley Scott to do for the theatrical release.

*ahem* Anyway, a little into the film, Liam Neeson is being confronted by some folks, and his posture while he was talking to them really clicked the idea for me:




It's a very casual stance, but one that also shows he's ready to start dishing out some violence(and he does), which is the way I want to go with these AoV guys.

This weekend, I also purchased the Masters of the Chapter box set in Finecast, and was considering using one of them for this conversion:



I'm leaning more towards the two on the right. The Master of the Fleet(top left, normally holding a thunderhammer) is the closest one to the pose straight out of the box, but he's almost too stiff. Master of Recruits(bottom left), while having a lot of Angel-esque gubbins(book, scroll, lots of purity seals and litany papers), is in a bit more of an aggressive stance than what I was wanting. Master of the Arsenal(top right) is probably the top contender for me right now, with his Mk III armor definitely looking very knight-ish. Master of the Watch(bottom right) is in 2nd place.

Or maybe I could see about chopping up a regular tac marine to get the pose I'm wanting.

Opinions, suggestions, etc, are welcome.

-BCK

I think I'm pretty close to done with this guy. I traded up the eagle on his right greave for a robed angel, added some purity seals, replaced the little trinket I clipped off his chest to just below his belt(hard to see in the pics, I'll try for a better frontal view later), and made the chapter symbol on his right shoulder. Woot! I'm glad to finally see this figure recover from the mauling I gave him probably 15 years ago, and I think he'll look great once painted.






Now I just have to decide if he'll be the captain of the first company or "Master of the Deathwing" as these guys call it, or a lowly sergeant. All about the titles, aren't they, these angels?

However, since I already have an even more complicated and ridiculous terminator conversion idea in mind, I think he'll just be a sergeant. Plus, I just recently found out the AoV Masters of the Inner Circle all wear black robes and I had imagined the robes on this guy as red the entire time I was working on him.

As always, thanks for looking,

-BCK

I got the knives out and started on the Company Master conversion earlier today:




As you can see, I had some issues with removing both shoulder pads. The right one broke apart, but luckily I was able to get a replacement from one of my spare Finecast Sternguard. With his left shoulder, I intended to keep the strip of the cape attached and after repositioning the shoulder pad, I was going to heat up the strip, bend it back into place and then glue it down, filling in any gaps with putty. This also did not go to plan, but it's nothing I can't fix with a little more time.

Last night, I started on another terminator conversion, planning on this guy to be a future Belial stand-in. The plan is to make a terminator that looks considerably different from the others and make the armor more reminiscent of medieval European knight plate armor:




Obviously the base is a Grey Knight, but I'm planning on changing it enough that it, hopefully, won't be immediately obvious what it is. The tassets, for example(thigh armor) are going to be reshaped and possibly extended. The wasp waist won't be staying either. This is still very early in what will probably be a very involved and lengthy project.

-BCK

Wow that termie sargent is so good. Love your eye for a conversion. Cant wait to see 'Belial'. I play dark angels btw but am not enamoured with the fluff. I just like the colour scheme but I think the AoV scheme is actually better.
SUB'D

I was watching the extended version of "Kingdom of Heaven" last night when I got an idea for a new figure to add to my slow-grow AoV army. Btw, if you haven't seen the extended cut, it's worth it. SOOOOO much better than the original hack job that the studio forced Ridley Scott to do for the theatrical release.

I knew the version I saw felt rushed! Thank you for this insight.

Lovely termies, btw.

Loving this project! I used to play DA because I loved the imagery, but, like you, hated the fluff. They have since been (ironically) cannibalized into a SW army. Great work on your captain so far! You, sir, are a sculpting whiz! Definately subbed

htj wrote:I knew the version I saw felt rushed! Thank you for this insight.
Lovely termies, btw.

Out of all these goodness, you're most excited about the movie tip?

Keep up the great work!
Rawson

Holy~Heretic wrote:Wow that termie sargent is so good. Love your eye for a conversion. Cant wait to see 'Belial'. I play dark angels btw but am not enamoured with the fluff. I just like the colour scheme but I think the AoV scheme is actually better.
SUB'D

Thanks!

As for the Dark Angels, their paint scheme is one of the few things about them that doesn't bother me as I think strong, dark colors always look good on marines but I've been a fan of the AoV since the first time I saw them way back when.

htj wrote:

I was watching the extended version of "Kingdom of Heaven" last night when I got an idea for a new figure to add to my slow-grow AoV army. Btw, if you haven't seen the extended cut, it's worth it. SOOOOO much better than the original hack job that the studio forced Ridley Scott to do for the theatrical release.

I knew the version I saw felt rushed! Thank you for this insight.

Lovely termies, btw.

I had the same feeling the first time I watched it. Even though it was good, it felt like a 3+ hour movie that had been chopped down to 140 mins. The extra 45 minutes in the director's cut makes a huge difference. There used to be a 4 disc DVD version, but I think it's no longer being made and only the Blu-ray version is currently in production. Glad you like the termies.

And speaking of Kingdom of Heaven and the inspired conversion, I've been struggling with the hand and arm position on this guy for over an hour and I finally got something close to working - it still needs some adjusting but I think it's pretty close to what I'm wanting:




For a while there, I thought I might have to try sculpting a hand from scratch and I might still have to try sculpting some fingers.

What do you think,? Does it get the point across?

-BCK





Automatically Appended Next Post:

Rawson wrote:Loving this project! I used to play DA because I loved the imagery, but, like you, hated the fluff. They have since been (ironically) cannibalized into a SW army. Great work on your captain so far! You, sir, are a sculpting whiz! Definately subbed

htj wrote:I knew the version I saw felt rushed! Thank you for this insight.
Lovely termies, btw.

Out of all these goodness, you're most excited about the movie tip?

Keep up the great work!
Rawson

Got me while I was updating! I'm probably an even bigger movie dork than a 40k dork, so if I help him along to a better version of the movie, I got no problem with that.

I know what you mean about them becoming a pseudo-wolves army, though. I'm curious to see how 6th will treat them. If it's something I don't care for, I might just run them as codex. And thanks for the compliments! I wish I was better at sculpting than I am, but I manage to get by. I think the secret to looking like you're better at sculpting than you really are is to stick to simple shapes,and if at all possible, blend it in with something already on the figure.

Brother Chaplain Kage wrote:And speaking of Kingdom of Heaven and the inspired conversion, I've been struggling with the hand and arm position on this guy for over an hour and I finally got something close to working - it still needs some adjusting but I think it's pretty close to what I'm wanting:



For a while there, I thought I might have to try sculpting a hand from scratch and I might still have to try sculpting some fingers.
What do you think,? Does it get the point across?

-BCK

I think you've made some good progress so far...but I have a bit of CC with rather large implications. I think you need to switch sword hands. The sword arm position is a bit awkward with the forward, lifted right knee. This makes him appear off balance. If you notice, Liam's right leg is slightly forward of his left in your reference pic (at least that's what it looks like from here ) Got any good right hand bits?

Hope that's helpful; keep up the great work!
Rawson

Rawson wrote:I think you've made some good progress so far...but I have a bit of CC with rather large implications. I think you need to switch sword hands. The sword arm position is a bit awkward with the forward, lifted right knee. This makes him appear off balance. If you notice, Liam's right leg is slightly forward of his left in your reference pic (at least that's what it looks like from here ) Got any good right hand bits?

Hope that's helpful; keep up the great work!
Rawson

It's not as pronounced as it looks in the picture - part of is that I haven't glued the figure down to the base he was slotted into for the pics, and it's a bit wobbly and I was having some issues getting everything into focus last night and the camera was tilted a little. There is a bit of a tilt to his chest, lifting the right shoulder up some, but I really want the sword on his left shoulder. I'm not trying to copy the pose exactly from the photo, with the right shoulder dropped like Liam has, I was just using it for inspiration. But you have a good eye for noticing that I appreciate the CC on it.

-BCK

I loved Kingdom of Heaven! Never knew about an extended version. I need to find a copy now

I think that marine looks great! Keep up the neat work!

ridin_qwerty wrote:I loved Kingdom of Heaven! Never knew about an extended version. I need to find a copy now

I think that marine looks great! Keep up the neat work!

Thanks, and happy to help.



I got some more work done on the Belial conversion, but since the putty is still curing, you'll just have to settle for the work I did with some strip plastic beforehand:




He's a tad dusty because I didn't think to snap the pic until I had already mixed up the putty, and I like to use it immediately, so no time to clean him up for the pic. Tomorrow, I'll get some pics up the putty work.

I was also looking at the Master of the Fleet figure, wondering what sort of conversion I could do with him, and I think I hit on something:




I've always wanted to field that LE Company Master on the table, but there's some changes I'd like to make as well - like the ammo box for the combi-bolter. Sculpting that much cloth kinda scares me, I gotta admit, but I'm willing to give it a shot.

-BCK

I had planned on getting more putty work done before posting today, but some family showed up unexpectedly a little while ago and I'm sneaking in here to post up some pics real quick:




Getting closer to finishing the chest. I haven't decided how to equip him yet. I'd hate to lose BS and I 5, but TH-SS offers more protection. Lighting claws can be nasty, but I have NEVER had a model with lighting claws come out looking any good.

Here's a pic of him trying on a TH:




Ideas or suggestions for gear? Anyone have some experience with Belial and which loadout works well for him?

Off to play uncle some more.

-BCK

This is really cool...
I'm adding this to my list of watched threads...

I've always used Belial with a hammer and shield, but I have wanted to use two long swords as count as lightning claws just for looks.
But I still feel that TH and SS is the best all comer load out , people argue that initiative 5 should be utilised but so many asault units dont care about init 5 and a 5+ inv isnt too reliable as you know.

purplefood wrote:This is really cool...
I'm adding this to my list of watched threads...

Holy~Heretic wrote:I've always used Belial with a hammer and shield, but I have wanted to use two long swords as count as lightning claws just for looks.
But I still feel that TH and SS is the best all comer load out , people argue that initiative 5 should be utilised but so many asault units dont care about init 5 and a 5+ inv isnt too reliable as you know.

Yeah, I see a lot of Dark Eldar armies at my LGS. I was leaning towards the TH-SS anyway as it affords the most protection to a pricey HQ unit, but since I plan on doing something kinda extravagant for the shoulderpads, I won't be able to make it swappable. Now to decide on what to do for the shield.

Great job so far. Im a fan of the AoV and like you am not one of the Dark Angels. Keep up the good work, can't wait to see what you've got coming. I remember seeing an photo of an army of them 5 Terminator squads and 3 dreads, all in black with red trim and reading how they have risked the future of there chapter many times and refusing to pull back and prefer to stand and fight. Cant wait to see how you approach their colour scheme.

borneo424 wrote:Great job so far. Im a fan of the AoV and like you am not one of the Dark Angels. Keep up the good work, can't wait to see what you've got coming. I remember seeing an photo of an army of them 5 Terminator squads and 3 dreads, all in black with red trim and reading how they have risked the future of there chapter many times and refusing to pull back and prefer to stand and fight. Cant wait to see how you approach their colour scheme.

I'm not sure how I want to do the black yet. I read an interesting technique where you paint the entire figure the first highlight color and then use washes to blacken the rest of the armor. It could turn out really well, but sounds time consuming. I may test it out on something like a shoulder and arm, and if it works well, maybe use it on the HQ figures. As for the rest of the scheme, I'm going with my original choice that you can see on the old metal termie of black, red, and white. Inner Circle members will have black robes which sounds like a real nightmare to work with - black on black.

i like your modeling, and the paint sceme is very well... not to mention ANYONE who uses Liam Neson as inspiration is ok in my books , im subbed

Love what you're doing! I've never actually seen the KoH but I probably should since it's my kind of film.

I like where this is going man!
I like the Dark Angels though that Liam Neeson look alike's going well!

Rogue Wolves wrote:i like your modeling, and the paint sceme is very well... not to mention ANYONE who uses Liam Neson as inspiration is ok in my books , im subbed

lol, thanks! Funny how he's becoming a real action hero kind of movie star and he just turned 60 12 days ago on the 7th.

NoBaconz4You wrote:Love what you're doing! I've never actually seen the KoH but I probably should since it's my kind of film.

It's probably one of my favorite Ridley Scott films. And not trying to start any kind of religious debate here, but one of the most surprising things about it for me was how fairly he treated both the Christian and Muslim sides of the conflict. Also, watch how Saladin(Ghassan Massoud) steals every scene he's in, and look for Nikolaj Coster-Waldau(Jaime Lannister/The Kingslayer from the Game of Thrones HBO series) in a small part near the beginning.

lipsdapips wrote:I like where this is going man!
I like the Dark Angels though that Liam Neeson look alike's going well!

On the table top, I like the Dark Angels too. I just never cared for their fluff at all, but I'm glad you like where this train is headed. I got some more putty work done on the Belial stand in(I need to come up with a name for that guy soon), and will have more pics up tomorrow.

-BCK

Looking forward to your masters of the chapter conversion!

Been busy the last couple days so I haven't been able to get a whole lot done.

Here's a little more putty work on the termie:




Tassets reshaped, more detail on the chest, and smoothed over the back of the lower legs.


The company master:




I was originally going to have him holding his helmet under his arm, but try as I might, I couldn't get it to work to my satisfaction. Then his hand resting on his thigh, and my attempted sculpting of a hand failed miserably. So here we are.

BTW, for anyone interested in picking up the Kingdom of Heaven Director's Cut on Blu-ray, Amazon has on it sale today for $7.99: Throw money here

-BCK

The termie is looking great! as is Liam, both in his 60's (what a badass) and your company master.. and man last time i saw Kingdom of Heaven, 2 years ago if I recall correctly, I saw it nearly back to back to back, and alot during that year

I'm posting the progress on these guys at The Bolter & Chainsword as well as here, and last night someone suggested a shield for the right arm and I didn't think it would work, especially since he has what appears to be a two-handed sword. I was futzing around with the figure today and saw the shield from the Master of the Fleet nearby and decided to give it a test fit as well as a PAGK helm:




I think the suggestion for the shield was better than I initially thought. Opinions? (Note: I forgot to mention earlier that I removed the marksmanship bullet award from his groin plate because the position and shape looked a bit... suggestive. I replaced it with a little twin sword trinket from the PAGK box.)


I got a little more work done on the termie, finishing my build up around the midsection:




You may also notice I've started covering the front of the boots; the next step is to make them look like the segmented armor as on the feet of the company master above. I can't decide if I want to add decorations to his chest, most likely a hooded skull and wings for the chapter symbol, or just leave it blank.

And because I accidentally mixed up way too much putty last night(I was very, very tired), I decided to make use of it and started on the conversion for my Limited Edition Company Master look-alike:




I grabbed some card stock and cut out a rough shape as a base for the cloak and glued it down. Since the putty had already been curing for 40-45 minutes by this point, I didn't have time to snap a pic of the card on him, though it is poking out around the edges. You can see that the putty is a bit lumpy and not real pretty because it had cured so much, but it's just a base for the rough shape and new putty will be going on top of it soon enough.

-BCK

hmm shield i definatly like, and i like where you company master is going so far, once you get that putty all nice and smooth, (and add some icons) this guy'll look great

I think the LimEd company master conversion will probably end up being a Sternguard sgt, if the DAs can have them in 6th, or a vet sarge if not.