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 CKO wrote:

Spoletta wrote:
Ok i like where this is going, so being a fan of swarmy lists i present the Hive Mind with a challenge:

Compose a competitive(ish) swarmy list!

Spoletta wrote:
So, who will take the challenge?

Hive Fleet Newt will accept the challenge using the same list that was presented around 2 weeks ago!

Hq
Hive Tyrant - 2xTL-Devourer/Brain-leeched, Electroshock Grubs, Wings, Hive Commander

Hive Tyrant - 2xTL-Devourer/Brain-leeched, Electroshock Grubs, Wings

2xTyrant Guard - Crushing Claws/Rending Claws, Adrenal Glands

2xTyrant Guard - Crushing Claws/Rending Claws, Adrenal Glands

Troops
30xTermaguants

Tervigon - Crushing Claws, Electroshcok Grubs

Elite
Venomthrope

Heavy Support
Carnifex - 2xTL Devourer/Brainleeched

Tyrannofex - Acid Spray

Incubator Node Formation
Tervigon - Crushing Claws, Electroshock Grubs

10xTermagaunts

10xTermagaunts

10xTermaguants

Spoletta wrote:
1) Maximize the number of gribblies and mid sized bugs. 1 Flyrant/Walkrant is fairplay, 2 are a bit too much. Add MC only if absolutely necessary and explain why that MC really has to be there.

The list starts the game with 60 gants on the table and has 2 tervigons who will create more, so that covers the swarm aspect of the list. The flyrants are to good not to use two of them, the tervigons add to the swarm element of my list, the dakkafex adds some dakka, and tyrannofex durability and acid spray is really good in certain match ups.

Spoletta wrote:
2) Play on the concept of adaptability. The swarmy lists greatest strength is in being capable of playing in many different ways based on the opponent, so no one trick ponys, no all out ranged, no all out assault. Hybridize as much as possible.

I have a nice mixture of shooting and assaulting units. I have 3 twin-linked devourers brainleeched units, 2 tyrant guard armed for cc, tyrannofex for his template, and the tervigons are sneaky anti-tank units.Taking advantage of the gants is the key to any swarm list whether through mass shooting or tieing something up in cc.

Spoletta wrote:
3) Competitive(ish) means that the list needs to be a threath to the majority of popular lists I.E. with a good play you should have at least 40-45% chance of winning.

I believe the list can easily win with a percentage better than 40-45%. The list will be improved with the new forgeworld units, I am very excited and looking at them now and seeing how I can move points around to make room for them.

I'm not sure but don't you need a second big Brood of Termagants (x30) to get the incubator Tervagon to count as Troops? Other wise it's "OK" 5 troops as is, 6 with a little jiggering, likely to have 9 or 10 during play....I'm guessing you depend on the Winged Tyrants for AA?

I've posted a few lists based on "Endless Swarm"...that's about as "swarmy" as you're likely to get.

I personally love the swarmy lists. I have found the first thing that does break swarmy lists is 2 tyrants as it pretty much costs you 2 troop squads.

Here is a 1000 point list I ran for fun against a solid IH bike with Vindicator and Whirlwind support list. It was doing very well even though we had to call it at the bottom of turn 3.

HQ:
Flyrant w/E-grub and 2x SyTal
3 TG
OOE

Elite:
Zoan
Zoan

Troops
3x Warriors w/VC
10 HG
10 HG
10 Termigaunts
10 Spinegaunts

Hvy
Dakkafex

OOE is there for a melee beast. I think he is about the best melee fex in the codex, and provides 8LD bubble. Useful in case of dead synapse. Dakkafex was for AA and light armor hunting.

I was able to keep pressure on or control every objective, and that many bodies is hard to deal with at 1000 points for elite lists. This is a scaled down version of my 2000pt horde list which swaps OOE for an S-K adds an Exocrine, a Prime, bulks up the Termie/Spinegaunt squads consolidates the Hormies, adds genest ealers and Shrikes.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

pinecone77 wrote:


I'm not sure but don't you need a second big Brood of Termagants (x30) to get the incubator Tervagon to count as Troops? Other wise it's "OK" 5 troops as is, 6 with a little jiggering, likely to have 9 or 10 during play....I'm guessing you depend on the Winged Tyrants for AA?

I've posted a few lists based on "Endless Swarm"...that's about as "swarmy" as you're likely to get.

Only problem with Endless Swarm is no OS troops, which actually hurts the list.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 ductvader wrote:
Swarmlord's natural buffs beg for hive guard, hormagaunts, genestealers, raveners, gargoyles...shrikes, these are all units I have had great success alongside him.

...and mostly naked at that...hormagaunts...meh...hormagaunts with free furious charge and a 50/50 shot at catalyst...yup.

That like is how I ran my 6e Hormies. No one expected much from them till after they stood off most of a guard army to hold a relic for 4 turns.

Have to look at Swarmlord in a list, again.

This is the list I play which is a bit swarmy (80/90 little bugs is a swarm, right?)

1750ish:

Swarmlord
2x Tyrant Guard

Hive Tyrant, Wings, 2x Devourer

Malanthrope (or Zoanthrope and Venomthrope)

30 Termagants
15 Hormagants
15 Hormagants
Tervigon

20 Gargoyles

Mawloc
Mawloc
Tyrannofex, Egrubs (or switch for Exocrine)

Lots of fast bugs to tie down units for Swarmlord to get into combat with. Also, Swarmlord gets the Mawlocs in from reserve on a 2+,

 ductvader wrote:
Swarmlord's natural buffs beg for hive guard, hormagaunts, genestealers, raveners, gargoyles...shrikes, these are all units I have had great success alongside him.

...and mostly naked at that...hormagaunts...meh...hormagaunts with free furious charge and a 50/50 shot at catalyst...yup.

I've been running Swarmy a lot recently. My meta has recently focused so far away from anti-air that even a single flyrant can be overwhelming to most of my opponents.

I do not think that he works well with Hive Guard. He can only hand out one buff per turn, and Hive Guard benefit most from preferred enemy, but because they are usually shooting vehicles, they only get to reroll one's to hit instead of also to wound. In most cases other units would benefit more from one of his buffs. Another reason to avoid Hive Guard is Swarmy needs as many Zoeys as warp charge batteries as possible. Also Perferred enemy on a zoey with a warp lance and a bead on a multi wound T4-5 model is pretty effective right there.

I do think he works well with genestealers. I've been infiltrating them to midfield into a ruin while conga-lining them back to my venomthrope so that the first models up front have a 2+ cover save on turn one. Then I hand out Furious charge or preferred enemy to them on turn 2, and let them kill something dead. I also use him a lot to get hormagaunts to S4 to kill vehicles.

My biggest problem with Swarmlord lists is, Swarmlord is such a critical part of the list that if he dies, I'm screwed. Still, with practice I've managed to make lists that have high enough threat levels that Swarmlord is usually neglected unless my opponent has a dreadnought that can assault him. The nerf to Smash hit him particularly hard, because dreadnoughts are very, very effective against him in close combat.

3 Makanthropes and a bastion seems like a bit of overkill. That's 3 Mawlocs worth of points spent securing a two point cover bonus.

i'm not a bastion fan now that you have to place forts in your deployment zone.

Bastion seems out of the question for most lists now. Having to place it in your own deployment zone now really kills its effectiveness.

Swarmlord has some tricks, but like stated if he dies then game over son. Most skilled players will realize that the Swarmlord is a true threat and will target him immediately.

Even with a Swarmy the Tyrant still out plays him with his access to electro grubs, a dread charging a Tyrant fears the D3 glances or even the explode result that could happen. The Swarmlord has not effect just more relative wounds that will do nothing in the ensuing combat.

Is there other avenues that we are overlooking? Is there something more we can build around living arty, or SB?

You can afford 2 Tyrants with points to spare for the price if a Swarmy and one of his Zope batteries. He's ridiculously overcosted, and suffers the same speed problems Dima. He is hands down the worst unit in the codex. A guy in my local was trying hard to make it work. Managed to get him into a good combat nice and fast a couple of games and still saw nowhere near any return on his points. And the games that he didn't, well, he had a 285 point fire magnet running up the board for the first three turns.

Flyrants may not have NEEDED Biomancy. Swarmlord certainly did.

i can get behind that statement.

 SHUPPET wrote:
3 Makanthropes and a bastion seems like a bit of overkill. That's 3 Mawlocs worth of points spent securing a two point cover bonus.

To be fair, 3 Malanthropes and a Bastion is ~100 less than 3 Mawlocs. I think that either 1 Malanthrope in a Bastion is good, or 2-3 of them advancing. I wouldn't do both frankly.

Ok I did the maths and yeah it's 60 pts under 3 Mawlocs, did something wrong in my head there. But yeh you get the point of the statement.

Hows this for a swarmy list?

240 Flyrant / 2x dev / Egrub

210 1x Tervigon / Cluster spine / Egrub
172 30x Termagaunts / 13x devourers
105 15x Hormagaunts / AG
105 15x Hormagaunts / AG

85 1x Malanthrope
85 1x Malanthrope

50 1x Aegis Defense line

Skyblight
240 Flyrant / 2x dev / Egrub

90 15x Guargoyle
90 15x Guargoyle
90 15x Guargoyle

140 1x Harpy / TL HVC
140 1x Harpy / TL HVC
155 1x Hive Crone

Total 1997pts

105 gaunts plus more being spawned from Tervigon plus Guargoyles come back if they get wiped out, I chose to go with skyblight since they offer the best gaunts available, flying gaunts that come back from the grave and have OS.

Aegis line to survive the first round or two of shooting and the Malanthropes to make them, last even longer.

Good air defense and threat to keep the opponents focus away from my gaunts and to shoot as im reaching him with my swarm

Whatchu think?

omerakk wrote:

It's worth pointing out that the Stone Crusher fex's attacks are AP1 with its wrecker claws and it gets to reroll armor pens.
Even at str10 on the charge, I have failed to destroy vehicles plenty of times with a dakkafex.

I still think a dakkafex is more useful simply because it adapts to multiple situations. However, if someone is looking strictly for a melee answer to vehicles, the stonecrusher seems to be the way to go over any other options.

I had forgotten about the reroll...thanks for the catch.

My point was that the devilfex gets an additional attack (though only AP2), *and* all the shooting. But yes, if you are looking for a melee answer to AV13/14, you are better off with a CCfex.

But in that case, you are better off with a regular fex with CClaws and AG in stead of a SC fex.

SC:
2 HoW S10 AP2 armorbane
3 S10 AP1 reroll pens

CCFex
2 HoW S9 AP-
*5* S10 AP2 armorbane

If the target happens to live, or gets the charge on the fex; the disparity becomes huge.
SC Fex: 2 S10 AP1 reroll pens
CCFex: 4 S10 AP2 armorbane

Oh, and you also have to allow for the chances of actually making the charge. The CC Fex has FLeet, so will RUn faster and make longer charges.


I am curious if there is a role for the SC Flailfex and getting ID CC attacks... but I think anything T6 would be able to avoid CC with the fairly slow fex.

 SHUPPET wrote:
You can afford 2 Tyrants with points to spare for the price if a Swarmy and one of his Zope batteries. He's ridiculously overcosted, and suffers the same speed problems Dima. He is hands down the worst unit in the codex. A guy in my local was trying hard to make it work. Managed to get him into a good combat nice and fast a couple of games and still saw nowhere near any return on his points. And the games that he didn't, well, he had a 285 point fire magnet running up the board for the first three turns.

Flyrants may not have NEEDED Biomancy. Swarmlord certainly did.

Not to be overly argumentative, but that is wrong. It takes some skill to use swarmy effectively, but he + his tyrant guard can definitely make their points back occasionally, and he does give you a synapse nexus that is very powerful, and a ton of board control. He is overcosted for sure, but at 1500 points I usually run Swarmy + 2 Guard for 385. That is a lot less than the 480 points that it would cost me for 2 dakka flyrants, plus, if I do bring dakka flyrants it means I have to add another midfield synapse choice. A minimum of 100 points for warriors. Now 2 Dakka-flyrants are able to do more damage usually than swarmlord, and are still a better choice, but having such powerful board control is not without merits.

Swarmlord's nemisis is stationary gunline like Tau or Marine or Eldar. Thankfully the new Maelstrom of war missions (being superior in every way to Eternal War missions) penalize armies for not participating in the movement phase, and for sticking to a table edge. It is 6th edition thinking to dismiss swarmlord entirely as the worst unit in the codex.

Here is an added tidbit. JY2 described having trouble with drop pod marines at BAO. Running a Swarmlord list, I have never lost to drop pod marines, and with a good swarmy list, it is pretty damn hard for drop pods to even have a chance.

Overall, I've never lost a game with Swarmlord where he lived to the end of the game, and the skill to using him is figuring out how to keep him alive (both via list building and in game).

As far as worst (most overcosted) unit in the codex. It goes in this order to me.
Old One-Eye
Pyrovore
Sky-slasher swarm
Trygon
Horuspex
Deathleaper
Spore Mines
Hive Guard
Ripper Swarms
Tyrant Guard
Tyranid Prime
Trygon Prime
Genestealers
Tervigon
Harpy
Warrior
The Swarmlord
Raveners
HGaunts
... Beyond this point, most units are costed approximately right with Venoms, Zoeys, Flyrants, and Dakkafexes perhaps undercosted a bit.

Spoletta wrote:
Forgot to tell the general conditions for the challenge:

1850 points
Double CAD allowed.
FW models allowed.
LoW in a swarmy list is clearly a no go.

Bah... you guys are thinking small...

You did not ban formations, nor limit them, so I assume they are fair game...

Synaptic Swarm Formation: (18" synapse) 395
Prime
3 x 3 warrior

4 x Endless Swarm 1440

1835pts

That is *240* gaunts/Hgaunts on the table, 24 units, each coming back on a 4+

8 synapse units.


FLyers? Yeah, good luck with that...
Drop pods? Yeah, thats cute...
Transports? tank shock away, too bad your passengers can't get out...

The only glaring weakness I can see (there may be more) is the back pain moving all those gribblies...
Okay, actually any army with OS tank transports will be a problem. The warriors can assault them, but that entails getting to them etc etc.

It *may* be worthwhile to drop one of the Endless Swarms, to give a bunch of the HGaunts AG, so they can take out those transports.

Fairly slow? He's as slow as you can get in the game, not including spore mines or units that can't run. He's never going to be allowed to assault a Riptide or Wraithknight for example, even in a mirror match up he's zero threat to anything with wings and every other MC can shoot and kite and he's just an ineffecient use of points. Unless of course they too brought stupid models like a Dimachaeron. Even then you are probably going to lose. 4W for 150 pts is acceptable because Dakkafex is a spammable Devilplatform, he's not what you'd call a glass cannon but he does sacrifice durability for damage projection to make up for his inherit weakness. Looks to me like all versions of Stone Crusher sacrifice durability, firepower, and damage projection, to double down on tearing it up in melee. On a 4W 6" move body, completely not built for the task. I think you are right and just taking regular Fexes is better, with either AG, Devourers or both is the best options no matter what you want to achieve.

tag8833 wrote:

Here is an added tidbit. JY2 described having trouble with drop pod marines at BAO. Running a Swarmlord list, I have never lost to drop pod marines, and with a good swarmy list, it is pretty damn hard for drop pods to even have a chance.

Overall, I've never lost a game with Swarmlord where he lived to the end of the game, and the skill to using him is figuring out how to keep him alive (both via list building and in game).

Could you elaborate on this. I am curious how SLord helped so much against a DP list.

Fairly slow? He's as slow as you can get in the game, not including spore mines or units that can't run. He's never going to be allowed to assault a Riptide or Wraithknight for example, even in a mirror match up he's zero threat to anything with wings and every other MC can shoot and kite and he's just an ineffecient use of points. Unless of course they too brought stupid models like a Dimachaeron. Even then you are probably going to lose. 4W for 150 pts is acceptable because Dakkafex is a spammable Devilplatform, he's not what you'd call a glass cannon but he does sacrifice durability for damage projection to make up for his inherit weakness. Looks to me like all versions of Stone Crusher sacrifice durability, firepower, and damage projection, to double down on tearing it up in melee. On a 4W 6" move body, completely not built for the task. I think you are right and just taking regular Fexes is better, with either AG, Devourers or both is the best options no matter what you want to achieve.

 SHUPPET wrote:
Fairly slow? He's as slow as you can get in the game, not including spore mines or units that can't run. He's never going to be allowed to assault a Riptide or Wraithknight for example, even in a mirror match up he's zero threat to anything with wings and every other MC can shoot and kite

...
Um... isn't that pretty much what I said....??

coredump wrote:
...but I think anything T6 would be able to avoid CC with the fairly slow fex.

Granted, I wasn't quite as....emphatic about it. But I did say the same thing....

coredump wrote:

Spoletta wrote:
Forgot to tell the general conditions for the challenge:

1850 points
Double CAD allowed.
FW models allowed.
LoW in a swarmy list is clearly a no go.

Bah... you guys are thinking small...

You did not ban formations, nor limit them, so I assume they are fair game...

Synaptic Swarm Formation: (18" synapse) 395
Prime
3 x 3 warrior

4 x Endless Swarm 1440

1835pts

That is *240* gaunts/Hgaunts on the table, 24 units, each coming back on a 4+

8 synapse units.


FLyers? Yeah, good luck with that...
Drop pods? Yeah, thats cute...
Transports? tank shock away, too bad your passengers can't get out...

The only glaring weakness I can see (there may be more) is the back pain moving all those gribblies...
Okay, actually any army with OS tank transports will be a problem. The warriors can assault them, but that entails getting to them etc etc.

It *may* be worthwhile to drop one of the Endless Swarms, to give a bunch of the HGaunts AG, so they can take out those transports.

Swap that one ES for a Wrecker, Bioblast or Living Artilery Node. All three add one more Synapse anchor and give a solid answer to OS Transports.

 SHUPPET wrote:
Fairly slow? He's as slow as you can get in the game, not including spore mines or units that can't run. He's never going to be allowed to assault a Riptide or Wraithknight for example, even in a mirror match up he's zero threat to anything with wings and every other MC can shoot and kite and he's just an ineffecient use of points. Unless of course they too brought stupid models like a Dimachaeron. Even then you are probably going to lose. 4W for 150 pts is acceptable because Dakkafex is a spammable Devilplatform, he's not what you'd call a glass cannon but he does sacrifice durability for damage projection to make up for his inherit weakness. Looks to me like all versions of Stone Crusher sacrifice durability, firepower, and damage projection, to double down on tearing it up in melee. On a 4W 6" move body, completely not built for the task. I think you are right and just taking regular Fexes is better, with either AG, Devourers or both is the best options no matter what you want to achieve.

I had a test game and I was frankly not impressed. They actually did reasonably well, they hung around midfield and then assaulted and killed an Imperial Knight, but just using them they felt a little awkward, because of how much slower than the rest of my army they were. If my opponent hadn't come to me, they would have done nothing. Not bad, and very fun if it fits your theme, but in a competitive sense I think that Devourers + Adrenal Glands will be top for Carnifex. I don't use the Dakkafex personally, but I recognize that it is a valuable unit for many Tyranid armies.

coredump wrote:

tag8833 wrote:

Here is an added tidbit. JY2 described having trouble with drop pod marines at BAO. Running a Swarmlord list, I have never lost to drop pod marines, and with a good swarmy list, it is pretty damn hard for drop pods to even have a chance.

Overall, I've never lost a game with Swarmlord where he lived to the end of the game, and the skill to using him is figuring out how to keep him alive (both via list building and in game).

Could you elaborate on this. I am curious how SLord helped so much against a DP list.

Swarmlord's main problem is speed. He is a beatstick in close combat. Drop pods have a tendancy to come to you, and if not all of the way to you, then close enough to still allow you a turn 1 charge. He can multi assault several combat squads / drop pods often which sticks him in for safety on turn two. In combat he can kill any marine I've ever faced. Mephiston or Grey Knights can give him trouble, but normal marines go down easy. He can give furious charge to MC's or Rending attackers like Genestealers, Shrikes, or raveners which makes them much better at taking out drop pods. He is usually going to get Warp Blast (Great), and/or psychic Shriek (ok) which can mess marines up.

The other key, is unlike a Flyrant, Swarmy usually isn't going down to Drop Pod Alpha strike. Taken with Tyrant Guard, and properly bubble wrapped, he is hard to kill in one round of shooting for 1/2 of a marine army. The only time I nearly lost him was in a large game when my opponent brought down 30 sternguard, and shot all of their hellfire rounds at him. 34 3+ saves even with 3 Tyrant guard can be rough. I think I had 1 wound left on swarmy, and 1 tyrant guard with 1 wound. But turn 2 saw 24 of those sternguard dead, and Swarmy locked in combat with the other 6.

Most of the time bubble wrap + drop pod scatter prevents 3 full pods from all being in rapidfire range.

tag8833 wrote:

coredump wrote:

tag8833 wrote:

Here is an added tidbit. JY2 described having trouble with drop pod marines at BAO. Running a Swarmlord list, I have never lost to drop pod marines, and with a good swarmy list, it is pretty damn hard for drop pods to even have a chance.

Overall, I've never lost a game with Swarmlord where he lived to the end of the game, and the skill to using him is figuring out how to keep him alive (both via list building and in game).

Could you elaborate on this. I am curious how SLord helped so much against a DP list.

Swarmlord's main problem is speed. He is a beatstick in close combat. Drop pods have a tendancy to come to you, and if not all of the way to you, then close enough to still allow you a turn 1 charge. He can multi assault several combat squads / drop pods often which sticks him in for safety on turn two. In combat he can kill any marine I've ever faced. Mephiston or Grey Knights can give him trouble, but normal marines go down easy. He can give furious charge to MC's or Rending attackers like Genestealers, Shrikes, or raveners which makes them much better at taking out drop pods. He is usually going to get Warp Blast (Great), and/or psychic Shriek (ok) which can mess marines up.

The other key, is unlike a Flyrant, Swarmy usually isn't going down to Drop Pod Alpha strike. Taken with Tyrant Guard, and properly bubble wrapped, he is hard to kill in one round of shooting for 1/2 of a marine army. The only time I nearly lost him was in a large game when my opponent brought down 30 sternguard, and shot all of their hellfire rounds at him. 34 3+ saves even with 3 Tyrant guard can be rough. I think I had 1 wound left on swarmy, and 1 tyrant guard with 1 wound. But turn 2 saw 24 of those sternguard dead, and Swarmy locked in combat with the other 6.

Most of the time bubble wrap + drop pod scatter prevents 3 full pods from all being in rapidfire range.

I play regularly with Swarmlord and everything you've said I have experienced as well. I play regularly against my buddies Drop Pod marines (who placed respectably at the BAO, just for some context) and have never lost Swarmlord to his army. Swarmlord will mulch marines and isn't nearly as slow as you might think. In fact, with the changes to Move Through Cover, he's never been faster. I think he works very well in a swarm-style list. A big footprint really hurts drop pod armies. It also may have something to do with Flyrant's not really being a good unit against loads of marines. Unloading on them with Devourers isn't going to get the job done in the same way CC will.

i had a big thing written up about comparing SL to a flyrant, but there's no point re-hashing this. if a slow moving ground unit is working for you, awesome. but SL only does more damage IF he can actually make combat with something other than a speedbump. flyrant starts lighting things up from turn 1, and you can take 3 pretty easily. there's really not a comparison to make here.

coredump wrote:

 SHUPPET wrote:
Fairly slow? He's as slow as you can get in the game, not including spore mines or units that can't run. He's never going to be allowed to assault a Riptide or Wraithknight for example, even in a mirror match up he's zero threat to anything with wings and every other MC can shoot and kite

...
Um... isn't that pretty much what I said....??

coredump wrote:
...but I think anything T6 would be able to avoid CC with the fairly slow fex.

Granted, I wasn't quite as....emphatic about it. But I did say the same thing....

Oh yeah I was fully agreeing with you!r statement and following on from it Just going into a little detail and adding a little more emphasis



@tag I meant the price of 2 naked CC tyrants. I think all the extra wounds and attacks and a harder to avoid threat bubble makes them much nicer than Swarmy, and yet still a trash option. I am of the opinion that Swarmlord is the very worst model available to Tyranids.

The swarmlord as overcosted as it is could be the missing piece for our swarmy lists together with the shroud guys, let's not dismiss him that easily but let's try to make it work. What he has to offer is pretty much what a swarmy nid is lacking:

1) Light AV, being able to give around furious charge turns your vanilla Hgaunts/Tgants/Garg into anti AV 10 rear without incurring into the heavy costs of AG and making your gribblies less attractive as bull magnets.

2) Heavy AV, things in meele with the SL and his guards tend to go down fast. This works just as well with big MCs like riptides and WK.

3) Durable 18" synapse bubble.

4) Lvl 3 psyion.

Now what are the 2 main problems of this 285 point (+ guards) guy?

1) Slow as hell, all his heavy anti AV roles and anti MC roles means jack if he can't get in melee.

2) Too easily taken down at range for it's cost.

3) Costs a lot, meaning fewer bodies on the field if you take him.

Now SL will 100% guaranteed not work in any semi serious competition if you try him in a typical nid list. Can it work in a swarm though? Let's analyze how the swarm can cover his weak points:

1) Partially. Hgaunts and gargoiles can easily tarpit things for him until he comes for the kill. This is true for MC and walkers, but an AB will not be entangled in melee.

2) A venom/malan is mandatory for him, and gribblies will guarantee a 3+ cover. Putting one of the guards into a ruin and making sure that it is the one nearest to SL will bump this to 2+ (they have MTC thanks to SL). Enough? At times yes, against Tau markerlights no. As an added bonus though we have that having many bodies on the field protects you from many alpha strike lists and gives a good degree of protection against fliers.

3) Ok this is easily covered, we are talking 100+ bodies on the field here.


So, is this enough for SL to be a good addition to a swarmy list? Let's discuss and if someone has the chance then batrep.

To those who think the Swarmlord is trash: Play him. I understand it feels wrong to pay 285pts for a non flying MC, but just hold your nose and do it. Everyone who actually uses him keeps saying he has value on the battlefield, maybe they're not hallucinating the results that they're seeing in their games...

I played swarmlord in a competitive enviroment using the 5th book during 6th. When he had the ability to get IA/WS and forced rerolls on invulns he was THE cc beast. Now he's gone from ter 1 powerhouse to overpriced beatstick. Realistically the Dima has more damage output, and with no way to pick up EW, any model with EW and a decent invuln can really feth up his day, god help you versus anything with ID.

I would rather spend the 285 (+guard tax) on FC for 80 HG in a swarm list so multiple units can use it since a big blob loses the bonus if they multiassault.

There is very little reason to take him over anything, really. For 215 you can get a walking tyrant with HC and regen. Not even a competitive choice, but i'd wager if both have 2/3 guards the tyrant does much more over the game. Plus you can use the strategic table and the formation to keep an 18" synapse.

 Traceoftoxin wrote:
I played swarmlord in a competitive enviroment using the 5th book during 6th. When he had the ability to get IA/WS and forced rerolls on invulns he was THE cc beast. Now he's gone from ter 1 powerhouse to overpriced beatstick. Realistically the Dima has more damage output, and with no way to pick up EW, any model with EW and a decent invuln can really feth up his day, god help you versus anything with ID.

I would rather spend the 285 (+guard tax) on FC for 80 HG in a swarm list so multiple units can use it since a big blob loses the bonus if they multiassault.

There is very little reason to take him over anything, really. For 215 you can get a walking tyrant with HC and regen. Not even a competitive choice, but i'd wager if both have 2/3 guards the tyrant does much more over the game. Plus you can use the strategic table and the formation to keep an 18" synapse.

In a typical list there is 0 reasons to take him, i agree. Though we are trying to see him in a different role, not as a pure beatstick, but a support beatstick in a peculiar list. Not saying that it works, just that i wouldn't write him off immediately.

Yeah, the fact that even random trash like Regen CC Tyrants can give him a run for his points shows how janky the Swarmlord actually is. Dima is farrrr better than him. And Dima is the second worst model we have available to us.

No matter what you expect from the Swarmlord, the same amount of points in something else will do it better. He's just that overcosted. I'd rather 20 Genestealers tbh.

Also, to void wraith, everyone I know to have played the Swarmlord in 6E says he's junk. I don't personally need to go out and lose with the model to confirm this especially if I can't see any explanation as to how he isn't bad. He was DECENT in 6th. But that was a different game, we had a different dex, and he was a different model.