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I knew it wasn't a crime in of itself to join Isis. Even though it really should be. There was no ambiguity about them.

 BaronIveagh wrote:

 Grey Templar wrote:
Arrest them and put them on trial for crimes against humanity. There were Nazis who got the noose because they filed paperwork involved with the Holocaust. These guys surely did even worse things.

If the US wants to start prosecuting war criminals, I suggest that they start by handing over their own. Ernest Medina and William Calley in particular are long overdue for their encounter with a rope instead of doing profitable speaking tours about how they committed war crimes and got away with it.

Pretty bizarre example - you're essentially saying the US has no moral authority to try people for war crimes, and back that up with an example of 2 people who the US prosecuted for war crimes.

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:

 Co'tor Shas wrote:

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:
To be fair, if someone is making a normative statement making a positive statement to rebutt it is a bit silly.

I can't cite laws that don't exist.

Never mind me actually, I misread your last statement.

All good

 Future War Cultist wrote:
I knew it wasn't a crime in of itself to join Isis. Even though it really should be. There was no ambiguity about them.

There listed as a terror group though.

So to fight for, to provide material, logistical or financial support is illegal.
Maybe being a member is not, should be. And will get you very closely watched. They gonna know how you take your tea and how you place your toilet paper practically.

 Ouze wrote:

Pretty bizarre example - you're essentially saying the US has no moral authority to try people for war crimes, and back that up with an example of 2 people who the US prosecuted for war crimes.

No, bizarre is finding them guilty, and sentencing them to hard time, then having them serve one day of it before commuting their sentence to house arrest, followed by time served.

Compare that 1 day of hard labor and three and a half years of house arrest to the Death that the US demands of other countries for the exact same crime. After all, Malmedy was only about 200 people more, if you assume maximum body-count for both incidents. Calley might have hit that if not for the intervention of US air support threatening to fire on Calley's troops.

Medina and Calley show the inherent problems of having the perpetrating nation try their own war criminals. Political pressure will always be to reduce the sentence or pardon them entirely.

I don't disagree that they should have gotten a lot more. Them getting off was wrong. But that failure doesn't mean we shouldn't go after other war criminals.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/05/07/punk-isil-jihadist-sally-jones-kill-list-using-son-shield/

And just for some context.
She is not some just Jihadi wife

A former Kent punk-turned jihadist has reportedly been placed high on a US kill list for exhorting women to carry out terrorist attacks, but is believed to be hiding behind her young son as a human shield to avoid a drone strike.

Sally Jones has been declared a “high priority” target after she and her late husband, Junaid Hussain, were implicated in an unprecedented level of recruiting and attack planning for the Islamic State group.

The 48-year-old mother-of-two was put in charge of training all European female recruits and leading the female wing of the Anwar al-Awlaki battalion, a unit of foreign fighters founded by Hussain with the purpose of attacking the West.

So is there much question in wanting her back? she a Jihadi recruiter, trainer, aimed in attacking the west and killing civilians and bad enough to be on US Kill lists. so, anyone want this woman back on our streets pltting how to kill us in our own homeland with all those lovely skills she learned, .

I thought not.

She is a massive danger to the UK, only alive as her son is with her so no Drone delivered presents.

 jhe90 wrote:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/05/07/punk-isil-jihadist-sally-jones-kill-list-using-son-shield/

And just for some context.
She is not some just Jihadi wife

A former Kent punk-turned jihadist has reportedly been placed high on a US kill list for exhorting women to carry out terrorist attacks, but is believed to be hiding behind her young son as a human shield to avoid a drone strike.

Sally Jones has been declared a “high priority” target after she and her late husband, Junaid Hussain, were implicated in an unprecedented level of recruiting and attack planning for the Islamic State group.

The 48-year-old mother-of-two was put in charge of training all European female recruits and leading the female wing of the Anwar al-Awlaki battalion, a unit of foreign fighters founded by Hussain with the purpose of attacking the West.

So is there much question in wanting her back? she a Jihadi recruiter, trainer, aimed in attacking the west and killing civilians and bad enough to be on US Kill lists. so, anyone want this woman back on our streets pltting how to kill us in our own homeland with all those lovely skills she learned, .

I thought not.

She is a massive danger to the UK, only alive as her son is with her so no Drone delivered presents.

And what of her son?

 A Town Called Malus wrote:

 jhe90 wrote:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/05/07/punk-isil-jihadist-sally-jones-kill-list-using-son-shield/

And just for some context.
She is not some just Jihadi wife

A former Kent punk-turned jihadist has reportedly been placed high on a US kill list for exhorting women to carry out terrorist attacks, but is believed to be hiding behind her young son as a human shield to avoid a drone strike.

Sally Jones has been declared a “high priority” target after she and her late husband, Junaid Hussain, were implicated in an unprecedented level of recruiting and attack planning for the Islamic State group.

The 48-year-old mother-of-two was put in charge of training all European female recruits and leading the female wing of the Anwar al-Awlaki battalion, a unit of foreign fighters founded by Hussain with the purpose of attacking the West.

So is there much question in wanting her back? she a Jihadi recruiter, trainer, aimed in attacking the west and killing civilians and bad enough to be on US Kill lists. so, anyone want this woman back on our streets pltting how to kill us in our own homeland with all those lovely skills she learned, .

I thought not.

She is a massive danger to the UK, only alive as her son is with her so no Drone delivered presents.

And what of her son?

She took a kid into the heart of that monsterous cult..
Her kid.

She rots in Iraq, the son can return home taken into care most likely, given the probably psychological trauma suffered out there.
The Mother, if she wants to spend the next x years in jail, she can return. Probbly see her son free when he about 30.

What are you going to charge her with that doesn't:

a) require making retroactive legislation

and

b) that is going to be under British jurisdiction?

Also, if she's in jail she isn't out on the streets anyway, no?

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:
What are you going to charge her with that doesn't:

a) require making retroactive legislation

and

b) that is going to be under British jurisdiction?

Also, if she's in jail she isn't out on the streets anyway, no?

Under British law I think she could be charged with terrorism offences, especially if she has actually participated in the training of women to carry out attacks. However that requires her being in the UK and in custody. In the interests of protecting the child and getting it out of there, I think offering a plea bargain of some sort could be helpful. She will still face imprisonment, possibly less than she might otherwise have got but it encourages her to return which takes the child out of danger and also saves us some money on the trial.

If that child does not get out of there, I think it is highly likely it will be killed.

 A Town Called Malus wrote:

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:
What are you going to charge her with that doesn't:

a) require making retroactive legislation

and

b) that is going to be under British jurisdiction?

Also, if she's in jail she isn't out on the streets anyway, no?

Under British law I think she could be charged with terrorism offences, especially if she has actually participated in the training of women to carry out attacks. However that requires her being in the UK and in custody. In the interests of protecting the child and getting it out of there, I think offering a plea bargain of some sort could be helpful. She will still face imprisonment, possibly less than she might otherwise have got but it encourages her to return which takes the child out of danger and also saves us some money on the trial.

If that child does not get out of there, I think it is highly likely it will be killed.

Actively aiding terrorism is a crime. And you can be held to account even if done abroad.
Under one UK law its illegal not to report a terror threat if you believe it could prevent one, or bring a attacker in.. Yet alone a active member of a threat.

Offer her a deal, but she id arrested the momment she enters the UK. And if she ever wants her kid back...well that's if and only if we don,t think your gonna spread your vile ideology you joined and actively helped. No leniant deal. If not for the kid , they ne no deal.

Protect the kid from that Poison, and help them deal with the issues they ended up with in Syria from that messed up place.

 jhe90 wrote:

Protect the kid from that Poison, and help them deal with the issues they ended up with in Syria from that messed up place.

Why bother with all that? Go with US policy and drone strike their children too. (No, seriously, this has been done already) I mean, seriously, if you're not wanting to make honest legal offers (and what you're describing by offering a plea bargain and then ignoring it when accepted is also a crime). You could go the MOSSAD route and illegally seize them from another country, but be prepared to get caught.

 Grey Templar wrote:
I don't disagree that they should have gotten a lot more. Them getting off was wrong. But that failure doesn't mean we shouldn't go after other war criminals.

My point is that US will never allow that issue to be rectified. Policy was (IDK if it still is) that NO US citizen will ever be allowed to stand trial for war crimes outside an American court (this was partially due to the William Joyce trial in which an American citizen was tried for treason against England on a technicality. He hanged.)

 BaronIveagh wrote:

 jhe90 wrote:

Protect the kid from that Poison, and help them deal with the issues they ended up with in Syria from that messed up place.

Why bother with all that? Go with US policy and drone strike their children too. (No, seriously, this has been done already)

 Grey Templar wrote:
I don't disagree that they should have gotten a lot more. Them getting off was wrong. But that failure doesn't mean we shouldn't go after other war criminals.

My point is that US will never allow that issue to be rectified. Policy was (IDK if it still is) that NO US citizen will ever be allowed to stand trial for war crimes outside an American court (this was partially due to the William Joyce trial in which an American citizen was tried for treason against England on a technicality. He hanged.)

There's maybe hope for the kid.
Maybe the kid can change, put that and live a normal life.

The Mother... In too deep, willing convert, loyal erbough to promote, planning attacks...
Not many ways back from that.

Its a very thin line for her.

 jhe90 wrote:
In too deep, willing convert, loyal erbough to promote, planning attacks...
Not many ways back from that.

Have her run for public office in Ireland?

Lets face it, it's not like she saw the light or anything. She's just panicking because it's all gone belly up for them and now she's trying to save her own skin. If ISIS was doing any better she's still be there working for them.

Can we drop her off in a Asylum Processing Centre and just "misplace" the paperwork?

 BaronIveagh wrote:

 jhe90 wrote:
In too deep, willing convert, loyal erbough to promote, planning attacks...
Not many ways back from that.

Have her run for public office in Ireland?

There people changed. There was a change in things however.
The radical Islam. Np change. I doubt they ever will for least decades min.

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:
Can we drop her off in a Asylum Processing Centre and just "misplace" the paperwork?

It would probably count as a violation of her human rights and entitle her to money and an apology. Which makes me sick to my stomach of course.

 jhe90 wrote:

The radical Islam. Np change. I doubt they ever will for least decades min.

I might make a suggestion that would help cut it off at the knees sooner, but would require the US to suddenly develop a MASSIVE pair of balls.

Oppose Israel over Gaza. It's a crime against humanity in motion, but no one wants to say as much, or, in the case of the UN, has had any condemnation of Israel blocked by the US, and it carries a fairly low risk for US servicemen to intervene on this one. If you actually want to win hearts and minds, this is a good place to start.

 BaronIveagh wrote:

 jhe90 wrote:

The radical Islam. Np change. I doubt they ever will for least decades min.

I might make a suggestion that would help cut it off at the knees sooner, but would require the US to suddenly develop a MASSIVE pair of balls.

Oppose Israel over Gaza. It's a crime against humanity in motion, but no one wants to say as much, or, in the case of the UN, has had any condemnation of Israel blocked by the US, and it carries a fairly low risk for US servicemen to intervene on this one. If you actually want to win hearts and minds, this is a good place to start.

No. Don't get me wrong, the situation sucks balls as both sides maintains intractable demands. Frankly, my sympathy meter is almost nil when the palestinian government refuses to recognize Israel.

The rest of the Arab world don't really care about Gaza or Palestine in general, as it's a convenient cover to oppose Israel.

The Isreali and Arab relationship has been growing for quite sometime now. Israel has become a MAJOR arms exporter to the rest of the Arab world and has quietly cultivated amicable diplomacy with powerhouses like SA and Egypt. There's a ton going on here at the back-channel that indicates a shift between Israel and the rest of the Arab nations.

'Tis why you're seeing the GCC playing hardball with Iran and engaging in a proxy war with Qatar being the prize.

 whembly wrote:

No. Don't get me wrong, the situation sucks balls as both sides maintains intractable demands. Frankly, my sympathy meter is almost nil when the palestinian government refuses to recognize Israel.

Hold on a second, you actually think that thousands dying is acceptable due to what is essentially a diplomatic technicality? Wow. Just, wow.

Now, admittedly, my point of view is skewed, being from a people that the US long had a policy of placing in camps and starving us to death, and if we resisted this in the least, slaughtering everyone. That might lean me a bit toward the people being placed in camps, starved, etc. The people not in camp being burned alive in the cars and no one doing anything about it. It more than meets the qualifications for acts of Genocide.

I mean, seriously, there has to be some point where people say "WTF?'

 BaronIveagh wrote:

 whembly wrote:

No. Don't get me wrong, the situation sucks balls as both sides maintains intractable demands. Frankly, my sympathy meter is almost nil when the palestinian government refuses to recognize Israel.

Hold on a second, you actually think that thousands dying is acceptable due to what is essentially a diplomatic technicality? Wow. Just, wow.

Now, admittedly, my point of view is skewed, being from a people that the US long had a policy of placing in camps and starving us to death, and if we resisted this in the least, slaughtering everyone. That might lean me a bit toward the people being placed in camps, starved, etc. The people not in camp being burned alive in the cars and no one doing anything about it. It more than meets the qualifications for acts of Genocide.

I mean, seriously, there has to be some point where people say "WTF?'

Thousands dying? wut?

Maybe if you were more specific on this Israeli genocide accusations we'd have a conversation....

At some point perhaps we can discuss ISIL, which I believe is the actual topic, instead of seizing every opportunity to find some historic misdeed of the US to deflect upon?

 whembly wrote:

Thousands dying? wut?

Maybe if you were more specific on this Israeli genocide accusations we'd have a conversation....

According to Unicef, around 3500 children under 5 die every year as a direct result of the Gaza Blockade. That's to start with.


ISIS related, as they've been busy smuggling artifacts lately. Guess who the buyers were!:

http://www.cnn.com/2017/07/05/us/hobby-lobby-ancient-artifacts-trnd/index.html

Have some current American misdeeds, Quze.

Good to know it's immoral to fund birth control, but not overseas terrorist organizations.

Of course, no one will being going to jail for this despite the fact it appears to be a RICO like criminal plot spanning nearly a decade.

Anyway, they have a new guy in charge of procuring antiquities, so it's all good.

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:
What are you going to charge her with that doesn't:

a) require making retroactive legislation

and

b) that is going to be under British jurisdiction?

Also, if she's in jail she isn't out on the streets anyway, no?

Charge her with obstructing a thermobaric bomb...

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:
What are you going to charge her with that doesn't:

a) require making retroactive legislation

and

b) that is going to be under British jurisdiction?

Recognize ISIS as a State. At that point she can be deprived of nationality without having formally renounced it.

It's a huge can of worms, though

 Ouze wrote:
Good to know it's immoral to fund birth control, but not overseas terrorist organizations.

Of course, no one will being going to jail for this despite the fact it appears to be a RICO like criminal plot spanning nearly a decade.

Anyway, they have a new guy in charge of procuring antiquities, so it's all good.

Spoiler:

Haha, I watched True Lies only the other day, great film

BBC is making it sound like, after a long fight, Mosul is in the bag.

http://www.bbc.com/news/av/world-middle-east-40545331/mosul-battle-iraqi-forces-anticipate-is-defeat