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Hi all. The wife and I have been watching the 6th edition 40k release, and must say we dont much like what we see. Its an improvement over 5th, but not enough. So weve decided to move on to PP, Hordes in particular. I will be playing Circle, she will play Legion.

I do have a question...what rule book do we need to get started? Ive noticed there are several out there, but not sure which is most current.

For Hordes its Primal Mk 2

If you are willing to wait until September then PP is releasing a Hordes 2 Player Set. 2 small armies (Circle & Legion) and the rulebook. Should come in at around $100.

NB its a mini rulebook like the Aobr one. It should have the rules but minus the story and modelling sections.

ThriftyDiomedes wrote:For Hordes its Primal Mk 2

If you are willing to wait until September then PP is releasing a Hordes 2 Player Set. 2 small armies (Circle & Legion) and the rulebook. Should come in at around $100.

NB its a mini rulebook like the Aobr one. It should have the rules but minus the story and modelling sections.

I might pick up that starter. Wife already has a good start...I picked up 2 Legion Hvy Beast kits and Thagrosh the Messiah a while back just because I liked the minis. Im handing those (assembled but unpainted) over to her. WHat Ill need soon is some rules and a couple CIrcle minis for myself.

Mad4Minis wrote:Hi all. The wife and I have been watching the 6th edition 40k release, and must say we dont much like what we see. Its an improvement over 5th, but not enough. So weve decided to move on to PP, Hordes in particular. I will be playing Circle, she will play Legion.

I do have a question...what rule book do we need to get started? Ive noticed there are several out there, but not sure which is most current.

there is the warmachine rulebook, and the hordes rulebook. the game is essentially the same (they use 90% of the same rules) with the major differences being fury in hordes, as opposed to focus. you could get away with using the warmachine rulebook, provided you have the QSRs that detail fury, but then you'd be missing out on all the cool hordes fluff! also, whilst not necessary, have a look at the forces of war: circle and forces of war: legion. they are "codex" circle and legion respectively, and cover all their releases previous to domination (and now gargantuans) You dont need the books, strictly speaking, but theyre nice to have.

There is also the summer sale, which I believe is still on until the end of the month. You get two solid 25pt armies, plus a full copy of the rules book, for just over $110 each, depending on what army you get. It gets you into the game fast, you have a spare copy of the rules (one to leave at home, or one each for you to bring to read on the way to family functions or at work) and you already have a legit expansion from the battle boxes. Instead of just offloading whatever crap they had lying around the office, PP bundled in items that synergized very well with the starter packs, as opposed to giving you a full unit of stuf you'll never use (aka any battleforce box ever produced by GW that wasn't full of Necrons.)

Do you go to gencon? Or know someone who does?

I'm guessing the two player starter will be on sale then and there

Thanks for the replies folks. We are looking forward to getting into the game. I think we are gonna download the pdf rules and give it a run. She has a couple minis and Ill proxy a few just to give it all a test run or two until we can start buying some more minis.

The Legion summer deal is basically the same as the starter plus a pair of deathstalkers and a forsaken.

Mad4Minis wrote:Thanks for the replies folks. We are looking forward to getting into the game. I think we are gonna download the pdf rules and give it a run. She has a couple minis and Ill proxy a few just to give it all a test run or two until we can start buying some more minis.

I highly suggest this. When I first got my group interested, I bought a variety of battle boxes that they were interested in to teach them the game(I like having demo sets laying around, too, to teach oter new converts). Learning on stuff that they hadn't bought yet was a good idea, as it both gave them a feel for the game and a feel for the faction. One of our players even changed his mind on his faction of choice because he didn't like the battle box of the original choice. Better then than after having bought a bunch of stuff.

Out of curiosity, why Circle and Legion?

She likes dragons, and I already have the Thagrosh & 2 Heavy spawn minis...and Im digging the werewolves.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I do have a general question...can the Minions faction be used with any army, or are they just an army of their own?

Minions work for the factions listed on their card. For for example, the Totem Hunter has the rule: Minion: This model will work for Circle Orboros, Legion of Everblight, Skorne, and Trollbloods. This means that when building an army, you can take the Totem Hunter in your force.

Minion warlocks are a bit of an odd thing. To play them with normal Faction stuff,you need to play in a multi-warlock game, in which the Minion one takes up one of the slots. If your only warlock is a Minion one, then the force is a Minion force.

I hope that helps.

And stuff.

Thanks Blaque, that does help...

...and brings another question...is there anywhere I can get a look at the different stat cards without buying the miniatures first?

It would really help in choosing my purchases if I knew what the different beasts, warlocks, etc did...

Mad4Minis wrote:Thanks Blaque, that does help...

...and brings another question...is there anywhere I can get a look at the different stat cards without buying the miniatures first?

It would really help in choosing my purchases if I knew what the different beasts, warlocks, etc did...

The "Forces of" Books. They'll outline everything except the stuff introduced in Domination. They also have the various(non-No Quarter) Theme Forces for each Warlock.

You should be able to get a vague idea from battle college as well. Along the lines of this model has one more DEF than something else. good if you have a reference point but other than that not really.

Battlecollege is your friend. It's pretty good at showing you how to get the most out of your dudes, and some basic compair/contrast of units.

Also, each faction has a deck of cards for about 20$ which will get you the vast majority of available units, including minions.

However, since you get the cards with purchase, and because you will probably end up buying the faction book anyway for 30$ish, it might be superfluous.

To get started I would suggest a MK2rimal rulebook, which is your BBB of Hordes. As with the BBB it is split between Game Rules, and some basic information on all the factions such as stats/fluff on the key personalities and setting (most/all of which is also covered in the faction books). The other books are all expansions, and have new unit stats and fluff, but no new rules.

The faction paint sets which have the six main colors of each faction are also nice... even a basic paintjob improves the visual enjoyment of the game so much. Past that most people use dry erase markers and card sleves for in game damage, and you will need some tokens for effects/resource managment.

Ill check out Battle College, thanks.

Fairly soon im going to be picking up the main book. SOmetime today Ill be ordering Grayle and a plastic wolf box to get me started, and using the free download rules for the wife and I to get a couple learning games in until we get the main rulebook and a couple more units.

The one thing you'll need to consider is the Grayle is in Domination, not Hordes Primal. He is also NOT a match for Thagrosh, who will eat him and his werewolf without any help from dragon spawn. At least at the beginning. Once you've got full armies and are more comfortable with the system anything is possible.

Wait, what? He's got storm rager, Gallows, Warpath as a feat and all the circle movement tricks. He outhreats Thags without stones and hits more than hard enough to wreck Thags in one turn.

12thRonin wrote:Wait, what? He's got storm rager, Gallows, Warpath as a feat and all the circle movement tricks. He outhreats Thags without stones and hits more than hard enough to wreck Thags in one turn.

Overall Id say your opinion is closer to what Battle College says. Thag might be a bit too tough for him, but not a giant mismatch. They called Thag "deceptively fragile" and calls Grayle a "melee assassin" which is a good thing in that contest as Thag can dish out a decent hit (when he hits) but doesnt take them well. They call him "squishy".


As far as our game will go...it will be our warlocks plus a hvy beast. Since thats all we have the minis for right now. Im thinking we will just keep respawning the stuff that dies to keep the game going...and in the case of the beasts switch to a new card/version each time, giving us a chance to try out all 3 versions to see which we like. Since it will be a learning the rules game it doesnt really matter who wins or loses so to speak, it will be about getting a feel for the rules and the factions.

As big as Thagrosh is I can confirm that he's not that tough. Low ARM and a tendency to be fury low at the end of his turn hampers his survivability

I took him down with Ekaya

Low ARM!? Compared to what? A Khador jack? He's ARM17 with 20 wounds. And with them playing with a single beast each neither one will have much Fury to work with. Though Thags will get +1 from the Athanc.

Honestly there's a reason why the Battlebox sets have multiple beasts. One beast each won't really show how the game system or armies work since neither warlock will be able to get enough Fury to use their spells or beast animi effectively.

Sanguinary Dan wrote:

Honestly there's a reason why the Battlebox sets have multiple beasts. One beast each won't really show how the game system or armies work since neither warlock will be able to get enough Fury to use their spells or beast animi effectively.

Ah, I see. Well, unfortunately my wife is out of work, and supporting a family of 4 on my pay alone doesnt allow much miniature shopping...guess Hordes will have to be shelved for the time being.

Why not try it on VASSAL or proxy with printed stand-ups from the PP box art gallery? That way you can get the feel for the armies and be ready for when the 2 player box arrives in September.

I've played 40,000 since RT and I basically assumed I didn't need or want another mini game. I was wrong. This system is fun, with capital F, U and N. Don't give up!

No worries, not giving up.

Will most likely pull the proxy deal. Since east Hvy beast box comes with the cards for all three I can just use the cards and press some other minis into service as stand-ins.

Hit anther snag as well...misplaced the stat cards for Thag...so Ill have to do something about that as well.

Welcome to the circle my friend . I have also moved over to Warmachine/hordes. Mainly because of balance issues and slow updates.. And after playing for about 6 months now I can tell you this I'm very happy with my decision. Not only is Warmachine/hordes alot better balanced its also gets regular updates for all its factions not just one.. Nobody gets left behind..

I also play circle so I thought I would give you a few tips on what you should get.. for a starter army

NR 1 pick = Standing stones and stone keeper this litte unit with its attachment is so good it makes the first spot . Not only does it heal your warbeasts/warlock/units and solos, it can also teleport them and take away access fury if needed. Fot its 3 points cost with the Stone keeper attached its one if not the best unit we have
Nr 2 Pick = Gorax a 4 point light warbeast with a super Animus that can suport and make larger warbeasts really deadly.. He also have 4 fury and two open fist (for two hand throws). All in all the best Light warbeast we have ..
Nr 3 Pick = Warpwolf Stalker = hehe a Nasty sword swinging Heavy Warbeast with the ability to charge in kill something and then escape. It's one of our better Heavy beasts if you ask me.. He also has Pathfinder can get +2 strength and stealth. Berserk is also a really good Unit killer...
Nr 4 Pick = Kromac, his spells suport the stalker and takes it from being a good beast to one of the most deadly things in our arsenal. He also have a spell called bestial that stops all spellcasting, he is very easy to learn and one of our best casters. He can assassinate with his Feat like no other Warlock in our army..
Nr 5 pick = Druids of Orboros if you dont pick up or dont like Kromac as your main caster then you should pick up the druids, like Kromac they can stop spellcasting and also push things away or towards you, great unit
Nr 6 Pick = Feral warpwolf, Pureblood warpwolf or Gethorix.. all these are great in your army, The Feral is best against other Hordes armies but can be very fast if combined with for example the Warlock Kaya the Moonhunter and her pet Laris... You can get a charge distance of 13 inches on him Nasty, nasty.. Combined with the Stalker you can then Run away 8 Inches after killing something. If your enemy brings things that are Buffed in Defence and armour or you like lots of Terrain on your battle field the Pureblood is a good choise. The Gethorix is like a stalker on Steriods but is best played alongside a Stalker and a Gorax.. But the other 2 warpwolfs bring more unique advantages and are a better choise if you allready have the stalker..
Nr 7 Pick = Stoneward and woldstalkers brings much needed ranged suport to your army...
Nr 8 Pick = Gallows Grove.. Who doesn't want to channel spells all across the battlefield.. They also take away though rolls.. I have upset our groups Cryx and Trollblood players with these Nasty things hehe..

Best casters

Kromac, spell stopping, Warbeast booster Caster with great assassination Potential..
Kaya the Moonhunter, with laris, Great for running fluffy lists (warpwolfs for example) teleport, high defence, Can force Warbeast outside her control area.. great Feat.. And gives great Warbeast suport..
Kruger the Stormlord, Learn to use his spell Gallows and you can PAWN people exellent if you combine him with gallows grows and Woldwarden/megalith.. you can drag things from across the battlefield and Execute people..


Okey casters

Baldur He works best with Constructs but your army becomes very slow. He is not a bad caster but I personaly think there are better choises
Kruger the Stormwrath this version of Kruger is EPIC if you are facing lots of Units on the battlefield 35 pt games and up.. But otherwise he sucks. Great against Unit heavy Factions like Cryx for example..
Moshar the desert walker, Hard to play has Old man stats, but can be used very effectivly in the right hands, he is not a Noob caster though so he should not be picked up as a first choise..

Havent played much with the 3 remaining casters.. But Morvahna The Autumnblade can be good if you play her right

Last I will list things that I personly think are Units that you should not buy. There are better things you can get to replace them, that fill thier roll much better, avoid them unless you really like how they look etc

1st Reeves of Orboros, our Worst Unit, they shoot for crap and die like flyes, This is Circles worst unit
2nd Warpborn Skinwalkers this is a tarpit unit, sadly a Gatorman Posse do the Jobb much better. The skinwalkers look cool but the Uggly gatormans are far better in that position. Only reason to field them would be in a Epic Kay Moonhunter Theme force to get it to Tier 4...
3rd Woldwyrd Light warbest, This one is just to expencive and to usless to bring to the fight... For 5 points its not worth it
4th Tharn Ravegers way to expencive and just not good enough. Again your are better off with a Gatorman posse Minion suport unit..

Last thing remember Circle is a hit and run and move Faction.. Standing and trading blows is not our style.. Think Gerilla Warfare when you play them and you will win fights.. But dont get sucked into a brawl because you will lose... our warbest are glass and we need suport combos to get high damage..

15pts army to start with

Kromac, with Warpath running you can do some sick combo moves getting your Stalker in charge range after a kill with The lord of the Feast
Warpwolf stalker 10 pts, Has Pathfinder and Reach and Kills everything with gorax animus on him combined with Kromacs uppkeep spell you get MAT 8 with 3 dices to hit and 20 base damage.... and 4 fury to spend... and can charge without spending fury..
Gorax 4 pts, super good animus for killing hard targets.. can throw things (like the enemy warcaster/warlock, can headbutt things to the ground). Think of him as your suport beast, he assist the Stalker and makes it kill better.. It hasen't gott the Stalkers Killing power but Two hand throws and headbuts.. and other power attacks can sabotage and serve up an easy kills for the stalker. Also he can block charge paths and assist in killing really hard targets. Nothing is better then charging in with both the stalker and Gorax and killing your oppnents deadliest beast/jack and running back with the stalker having your enemy charge the Gorax and killing it in frustration.. then it the next turn you charge back in and take out the remaining jacks/beast with the stalker. Then using your feat with Kromac, change to beast form and full advance 6inch jump 5inch and killing his Warcaster/warlock hehe
Lord of the Feast 4 pts, Kills Units and can suport in killing Warjacks/warbeast and Warcasters and Warlocks, hits hard and has pathfinder, Reach, Magic weapon and gets corps tokens (grants boosted Melee attack rolls and damage rolls if used or grants more attacks).. With Kromac +2 ARM uppkeep spell on him he is surpisingly hard to kill.. He shoots 10 inches jumps to the target and strikes.. Or Charge Hit everything in LOS.. if nothings left in his Melee range after the first strike, collect Corps tokens then Aim at your war Wolf that you have placed 10 inches from him and jump out... (its a legal move hehe)
War wolf 1pts good suport unit for your caster when you execute Warcasters and kill Units.. and good for blocking charge lanes and sacrificing, think of him as a Pawn in a chess game. Gallows grove is also a good choise for the last 1pt in this list.. But it cost more money to buy :(

This is a hit and run List.. Using Kromacs spell that creates difficult ground and Bestial spells that stops spellcasting and ducking in and out with lord of the feast and the Stalker you will eat away at your enemy one unit at a time ... Kromac is also one nasty Warcaster and using his Feat he can make short work of an Enemy Warcaster/warlock and win you the game...

= total 15 +4 for Kromac = total of 19 points... this is a fun List and you can face anything with it.. Think it will cost about 100 USD to buy, I'm in europe so Might be more.. But cheak out Malestrom games, it takes a while to get things but they are cheap..

Did I just see someone say the woldwyrd is a bad model? what is this madness? I will admit it seems like a model that is tricky to play and it may not be the top of the ladder; but I have seen first hand how good it can be.
That thing is the bane of my existence when I play cygnar vs. circle since it packs a mean couterthreat to my shooting and punishes me for trying to push my models to their maximum potential. I'm not saying I can't deal with a wyrd, but it does factor in to my plans.

Been playing the Woldwyrd a lot more of late, actually. I haven't liked them that much in MkII, but I find that they are acutally fairly competent little guys. The gun can mow-down opposing models not too badly, it's fast, has goodish defensive stats, and can put a lot of hurt on things with upkeeps and is hyper-accurate.

I do feel the upcoming two-player battle box is a very good way to learn the faction. I think that Kaya the Wildborne, while not the best-scaling warlock, is not actually a bad warlock. Something I learned about Circle over the years is that they tend to have a range of "solid" stuff. We have, I think, very little what can be considered "chaff" per faction. Off the top of my head, the Reeves unit, Ravagers, and the Sentry Stone and Manikins are really the only things I actively suggest against for people. Argi, Wolds, and such often do find place places in some list.

Anyways, back on the box. Kaya is actually I feel a good way to learn a lot of Circle, as well as a way to kind of "hand hold" a bit. You don't have to worry about things like Primal being as needed, you have Pathfinder for the whole list, you have a good hit-and-run game, have a bigger CTRL area than your opponent, and even get a bit of a "cheat" on math to help training-wheel things on to-hits. She grows into her epic form, Kromac, or Grayle fairly well too, and what you add to her list you might use in the others without having to invest into too much more than another Warpwolf and a Gorax, I think.

It's not a perfect list, or optimal, but cheap, and again, I think that working with what's a fairly nice skill-trainer set is a good thing.

And stuff.

I was actually planning to eventually pick up a pair of woldwyrds. They look like they would make good harassment units. Keep one on each flank to zoom around zapping things...maybe zoom one or both in after a high value target (spell boosting speed if possible) if an opening presents itself. The fact that they can shoot in CC is also nice if they get cornered.

Strangely enough, everyone I know who played Circle for a while has two, I even do as well (got them whent hey came out). I rarely, if ever even when they were super-great in MkI, played them in pairs though. They are good utility pieces, but not something I would build an army around too much.

And stuff.