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There is another thread that was started a day or two ago about vacations in Europe. We had a small derailing about workers rights in the US in that thread, so I decided to make a new thread and not derail theirs. You know, to be nice and stuff.

I know from my personal experience at my current job, you have to fight for the hours you need a week to survive(40 hours), fight for your vacation time if you have been there a year, and hope you have not made your boss mad so you will continue to get your hours. Raises are a thing of the past at my place of employment and making you fear for your job is a daily ritual to administrators.


How does Dakka feel about Workers Rights in the US and laws protecting employees from employers? I know right now, quite a few states have very little in the way of Workers Rights Laws.

Have other Dakka readers been in the same or similar position? I am hoping this is not as widespread as I am led to believe.

Personally, I feel workers rights in the US are near non-existent...
That said I am in the UK so maybe it's better in the US than I think... things get a touch distorted when you only hear the bad stories...

You have the right to show up on time and do what your boss says until s/he says you can leave. Choosing not to exercise that right may limit future opportunities.

Personally, I think that regardless of whatever the laws are in any country, the above is true.

Redbeard wrote:You have the right to show up on time and do what your boss says until s/he says you can leave. Choosing not to exercise that right may limit future opportunities.

No.
You do what's in your job description, and it's illegal for your boss to ask you to do anything beyond that. Of course, in 99% of jobs people do, but that's where the "Spanish strike" comes in. When workers carry on going to work, but only do the strict definition of their job from their job description (the joke being that this is what the Spanish do all the time).
It's also unlawful to work more than a certain amount of hours a week, regardless of what your boss says.

It's unfortunate but workers without unions are at the mercy of their companies. I used to think that unions were a relic of early 20th century and not necessarily needed anymore. In getting older and more experienced I have completely changed my mind. I have seen how a company can abuse it's employees first hand (Coca-Cola)

I think a lot of this has to do with the current economic conditions and possibly with illegal immigration making it easier for companies to get more "peasants".

GG

Well yeah, We tend not too. Hell, Wal Mart has Welfare agents on hand to help people apply for welfare. And the even get me on how anti-union many people in the states are, my mom even believes that the days of companies abusing workers is over.

Considering that labor laws are governed by both state and federal laws, there are places in the US that are better than others.

Here is the situation in the State of Oklahoma:

We are what you would consider an "at-will" state. Unless you have an actual contract (which I have never had at any single job) the employment exists at the will of both the employer and the employee. Both have the right to terminate the relationship for whatever (legal) reason they want, even if it is a simple "we don't think you are the right fit for the company anymore". No notice is required, no severance (unless part of the contract), no nothing. You just show up one morning, boss tells you "get out" and that is that, job's done.

Of course as an employee you can also say "you know what, feth this job I am out". You don't have to give notice to your employer either. But for employees it makes it hard to get another job. Most companies have a policy that you will not get rehired unless you gave "proper notice" (usually 2 weeks), or you will be placed on their 'no-hire' list. So when you apply for a different job their HR will call your old HR to get a reference. They cannot really ask many questions but one of the questions they are allowed to ask is "would you hire X again?" If your old company says "no, we wouldn't hire him again" then your new company is going to think twice about hiring you.

There are also no laws about vacation, no laws about sick-leave, or anything like that. If you work on a federal holiday they have to pay you overtime. But if they are closed that day then they are not required to pay you. Want to go on vacation? Not legally required to pay you. At home sick? Not legally required to pay you. Just had a baby? The Family Medical Leave Act says they have to let you be off for 12 weeks, but only if you already worked for them for 12 months prior to that and only without pay. If you have vacation days or sick days (which are not legally required) then you can use them to pay for your FMLA leave, but they have no obligation to pay you for any of it.

Lunch breaks? Not required by law. they can make you work your entire 8-12 hour shift without a break if they want to. If you do get a 30 minute break it will be deducted from your pay. Your job may decide to give you an unpaid lunch break (or even a paid break if you are lucky), but they are not legally required to.

But remember boys & girls, workers rights are socialism and unions are all evil.

hotsauceman1 wrote:Well yeah, We tend not too. Hell, Wal Mart has Welfare agents on hand to help people apply for welfare. And the even get me on how anti-union many people in the states are, my mom even believes that the days of companies abusing workers is over.

So they're confederates?

Sheesh, from what d-usa just said it does sound really bad, at least in Oklahoma. Just out of curiosity but is that a state which has been Republican for ages, or Democrat for ages or does it swap back and forth?

Joey wrote:

Redbeard wrote:You have the right to show up on time and do what your boss says until s/he says you can leave. Choosing not to exercise that right may limit future opportunities.

No.
You do what's in your job description, and it's illegal for your boss to ask you to do anything beyond that.

Most job descriptions I've ever seen have a clause that says, "other duties as assigned". It's a nice catch-all.

In every job I've worked, since high school, other duties have been asked that are not really what we were hired for, but they need to be done.

My point isn't that people cannot refuse to do these tasks, or even that they might be fired if they don't. It's that, if you want to get anywhere, you act like a team player and do what needs doing. It might be your "right" to avoid certain tasks, but really, if someone is asking you to do it, it's because it needs to be done, and saying no puts you on the 'do not promote' list. You may have a right to continued employment, but do you don't have a right to a promotion, or a raise.

d-usa wrote:
Considering that labor laws are governed by both state and federal laws, there are places in the US that are better than others.
...
Lunch breaks? Not required by law. they can make you work your entire 8-12 hour shift without a break if they want to. If you do get a 30 minute break it will be deducted from your pay. Your job may decide to give you an unpaid lunch break (or even a paid break if you are lucky), but they are not legally required to.

But remember boys & girls, workers rights are socialism and unions are all evil.

Also remember that skilled employees have leverage and companies will go far in excess of what the law requires in order to attract and retain talent. My office provides unlimited free soda, among other perks.

generalgrog wrote:I think a lot of this has to do with the current economic conditions and possibly with illegal immigration making it easier for companies to get more "peasants".

Illegal immigration is the lowest it has been in decades.

Redbeard wrote:

d-usa wrote:
Considering that labor laws are governed by both state and federal laws, there are places in the US that are better than others.
...
Lunch breaks? Not required by law. they can make you work your entire 8-12 hour shift without a break if they want to. If you do get a 30 minute break it will be deducted from your pay. Your job may decide to give you an unpaid lunch break (or even a paid break if you are lucky), but they are not legally required to.

But remember boys & girls, workers rights are socialism and unions are all evil.

Also remember that skilled employees have leverage and companies will go far in excess of what the law requires in order to attract and retain talent. My office provides unlimited free soda, among other perks.

True, I was just trying to address the question in regards to workers "rights" and reply with what your actual rights are (aka: required by law).

There are businesses that know that good benefits attract good workers, and they will offer vacations and other perks. But they are not required to. Many jobs that offer vacation still treat you like a selfish a-hole when you actually try to take that vacation. Other jobs that offer sick days have stupid rules like "if you are sick more than three times a year you are breaking the rules" or require you to bring in a note from the doctor for every sick day that you take. "Oh, you were throwing up this morning? We need a note from the doctor. Never mind that a stomach bug is not something you would go to the doctor for, we need a note anyway." If you are lucky then they don't offer insurance, so you need to spend $60 to take off the day from a job where you would have only earned $60 that day anyway if you are just a little above minimum wage.

I am very lucky to have the job that I have, working for the federal government and having a strong union does have it's benefits. Are there broken and dysfunctional unions? Sure. Are there broken and dysfunctional socialist countries? Sure.

But having lived in both Europe and the US, and seeing the difference between the two while listening to people all around me complain about "unions & socialists" really makes me want to hit my head against the wall at times.

generalgrog wrote:It's unfortunate but workers without unions are at the mercy of their companies. I used to think that unions were a relic of early 20th century and not necessarily needed anymore. In getting older and more experienced I have completely changed my mind. I have seen how a company can abuse it's employees first hand (Coca-Cola)

I think a lot of this has to do with the current economic conditions and possibly with illegal immigration making it easier for companies to get more "peasants".

GG

TBH, you cant even say unions are a safe bet either. At least here in Michigan, unions pretty much own your ass, and if you dont bow down to the union, then kiss your job and everything else good bye. I can tell you one REALLY gakky work is working in retirement homes. Those places are total gak jobs. They treat their employees like trash and at the drop of a hat, will fire you. Period. My sister inlaw works in that field and either has friends that get canned for dumb reasons like NOT fluffing someones pillow at night, not kidding. Shes been let go of those jobs for similar things. She ALMOST lost her job recently because some resident said she hurt her on such and such date. The woman has severe dementia and it just bat gak crazy, and makes up things all the time. Luckily she had that day off, but even still, they thought about giving her the boot. Its like that in any of those fields

Which is why unions, just like businesses, need to be properly regulated...

Melissia wrote:Which is why unions, just like businesses, need to be properly regulated...

Unregulated anything is often a recipe for disaster.

d-usa wrote:

There are businesses that know that good benefits attract good workers, and they will offer vacations and other perks. But they are not required to. Many jobs that offer vacation still treat you like a selfish a-hole when you actually try to take that vacation. Other jobs that offer sick days have stupid rules like "if you are sick more than three times a year you are breaking the rules" or require you to bring in a note from the doctor for every sick day that you take. "Oh, you were throwing up this morning? We need a note from the doctor. Never mind that a stomach bug is not something you would go to the doctor for, we need a note anyway." If you are lucky then they don't offer insurance, so you need to spend $60 to take off the day from a job where you would have only earned $60 that day anyway if you are just a little above minimum wage.

Haha, speaking of the whole calling in sick thing. You should listen to this KC, because I work in a Nursing Home and trust me, I have been through similar stuff as your sister-in-law.

In order for us to call in sick, I have to go to work to be "evaluated" by a nurse and it is their call on if I am sick or not. It is a 20 mile drive for me to work one way and never mind that I work in a facility where peoples immune systems are compromised every time they turn around. Each day I have off that I am not sick I consider a blessing.

Interesting story. I once worked in a home and I came in to work and became sick at work. I was told that if my co workers said it was alright, I could go home sick and be miserable there. Being the awesome field of work it is, all of my co workers looked at me like I was crazy, so I was stuck. Both of my supervisors told me to go throw up in the middle of the hallway, they could not legally keep me at work if I did. LOOPHOLES!

d-usa wrote:

Melissia wrote:Which is why unions, just like businesses, need to be properly regulated...

Unregulated anything is often a recipe for disaster.

Certainly, seeing as deregulation or plain lack of regulation has been the cause of almost every economic disaster in US history.

Melissia wrote:

generalgrog wrote:I think a lot of this has to do with the current economic conditions and possibly with illegal immigration making it easier for companies to get more "peasants".

Illegal immigration is the lowest it has been in decades.

Nevertheless you can't deny that an influx of (legal or otherwise) unskilled labour into a region a)reduces working conditions and b)increases unemployment amongst "natives".

Joey wrote:

Melissia wrote:

generalgrog wrote:I think a lot of this has to do with the current economic conditions and possibly with illegal immigration making it easier for companies to get more "peasants".

Illegal immigration is the lowest it has been in decades.

Nevertheless you can't deny that an influx of (legal or otherwise) unskilled labour into a region a)reduces working conditions and b)increases unemployment amongst "natives".

Actually we can until presented factual evidence otherwise.

Joey wrote:

Melissia wrote:

generalgrog wrote:I think a lot of this has to do with the current economic conditions and possibly with illegal immigration making it easier for companies to get more "peasants".

Illegal immigration is the lowest it has been in decades.

Nevertheless you can't deny that an influx of (legal or otherwise) unskilled labour into a region a)reduces working conditions and b)increases unemployment amongst "natives".

Yes I can; in fact, many of the companies which hired immigrants are finding that they cannot find enough workers now that immigration is at an all time low, especially in agriculture.

This despite the high rate of unemployment amongst unskilled "native" workers.

Redbeard wrote:It might be your "right" to avoid certain tasks, but really, if someone is asking you to do it, it's because it needs to be done, and saying no puts you on the 'do not promote' list.

No, they're asking because they're asking, whether or not it needs doing is secondary.

And saying "Yes?" It puts you on the list of "People to exploit."

Redbeard wrote: My office provides unlimited free soda, among other perks.

This is a perk?

Having been unemployed until very recently, this has been a topic near and dear to me...
This is what the Fegeral Government has to say about meal breaks:

TL;DR= If your employer says you get a lunch they have to give you 30 minutes away from your responsibilities, or they have to pay you for the time worked.

In Michigan, by law, you are only entitled to a break if you are under the age of 18.

Olive Garden needs to tell the old ugly ass ladies that come in to stop pinching the waiters' butts.

Especially when they are cheap tippers.

Piston Honda wrote:Olive Garden needs to tell the old ugly ass ladies that come in to stop pinching the waiters' butts.

It is the waiter's fault for having such a pinchable booty. Don't take it out on the customer.

Ahtman wrote:

Piston Honda wrote:Olive Garden needs to tell the old ugly ass ladies that come in to stop pinching the waiters' butts.

It is the waiter's fault for having such a pinchable booty. Don't take it out on the customer.

Easy to say when you don't have a black and blue bruise on your ass.

I swear those old bony fingers are an evolutionary step for women designed for self defense.

I always thought;

You gotta fight,
For your right,
To partay!

The chief occupation of soldiers in wartime is looking like your actually doing something to avoid getting detailed out to fill sandbags

Sometimes I am glad that I don't work in the US given some of the absolute horror stories I've heard about workers rights.

Joey wrote:

Redbeard wrote:You have the right to show up on time and do what your boss says until s/he says you can leave. Choosing not to exercise that right may limit future opportunities.

No.
You do what's in your job description, and it's illegal for your boss to ask you to do anything beyond that.

Every job description I've ever seen, or even heard of, includes the phrase "And other duties as assigned by management." Neatly bypasses that little rule, doesn't it.

It's also unlawful to work more than a certain amount of hours a week, regardless of what your boss says.

No, it's unlawful for you to work more than a certain amount of hours per week WITHOUT CERTAIN BENEFITS/RENUMERATION.

For example, if you work over 32 hours, you are considered full-time and must get the legally-defined benefits of a full-time employee. This is why many companies dumped all their full-time employees and now only have part-timers. And if you are a part-timer you WILL get in trouble for working over 32 hours... even if you would also haver gotten into trouble for not getting all your work done due to interruptions from your manager.

If you work over 40 hours, you are supposed to get overtime pay for those hours that exceed 40. This is why NO company willingly allows employees to work overtime, and again you can get in trouble for working overtime in most companies - again, regardless of WHY you worked overtime.

Vulcan wrote:

Joey wrote:

Redbeard wrote:You have the right to show up on time and do what your boss says until s/he says you can leave. Choosing not to exercise that right may limit future opportunities.

No.
You do what's in your job description, and it's illegal for your boss to ask you to do anything beyond that.

Every job description I've ever seen, or even heard of, includes the phrase "And other duties as assigned by management." Neatly bypasses that little rule, doesn't it.

It's also unlawful to work more than a certain amount of hours a week, regardless of what your boss says.

No, it's unlawful for you to work more than a certain amount of hours per week WITHOUT CERTAIN BENEFITS/RENUMERATION.

For example, if you work over 32 hours, you are considered full-time and must get the legally-defined benefits of a full-time employee. This is why many companies dumped all their full-time employees and now only have part-timers. And if you are a part-timer you WILL get in trouble for working over 32 hours... even if you would also haver gotten into trouble for not getting all your work done due to interruptions from your manager.

If you work over 40 hours, you are supposed to get overtime pay for those hours that exceed 40. This is why NO company willingly allows employees to work overtime, and again you can get in trouble for working overtime in most companies - again, regardless of WHY you worked overtime.

Unless you are an exempt employee, then you can work 80 hours a week and still only get paid for 40.

Piston Honda wrote:Olive Garden needs to tell the old ugly ass ladies that come in to stop pinching the waiters' butts.

Especially when they are cheap tippers.

File a sexual harrassment claim. Right now.

Sexual harrassment isn't limited to what men do to women.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

d-usa wrote:Unless you are an exempt employee, then you can work 80 hours a week and still only get paid for 40.

Oh, yeah, I forgot about that. Salaried workers don't even get overtime. That's why every salaried job I've ever seen invloved 50+ hour weeks.

THEORECTICALLY if you get your work done within fewer hours you still get full pay. IN PRACTICE... 50 hours is a minimum.