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I'm building up a Pre-Heresy army as my 25th anniversary/6th edition project, and I ran into a problem when I got to my HQ. What color was Librarian armor before the Codex Astartes? Was it normal Legion colors? What about Techmarines/Chaplains? I don't recall any of the HH novels I've read mentioning it being a specific color, but I want to make sure before I put paint to mini. Thanks!

There is no indication that they wore a certain color across the Legions.

I'm pretty sure that the red black and blue for techmarines chaplains and librarians were put in the Codex Astartes by Roboute...

So there probably weren't any specific colours, unless the people were superstitious and marked their psykers differently....

You know, now that you mention it I don't recall them saying they had a specific color sceme in the HH series either.

I think I remember something in the first DA book. But I don't think it was colors.

Keys? The skull with horns?

As far as I was aware; Librarians did not distinguish themselves between battle-brothers as they do now. Regular rank and file with some majicky warp goodness.

I've the vague feeling that in the Lion's story in The Primarchs, there was a mention of the (former) librarians' blue tabards, but I don't have the book on hand to check.

In general, given the confusing and much-retconned morass of background surrounding the pre-heresy librarium, I'd just do whatever you felt looked best, or otherwise wait for Forge World's heresy books to provide a definitive answer.

Librarians didn't really distinguish themselves, and would just use their powers in battle as if it were any other weapon. And chaplain did NOT exist. As the emperor didn't want anything like that.

Von Chogg

English Assassin wrote:I've the vague feeling that in the Lion's story in The Primarchs, there was a mention of the (former) librarians' blue tabards, but I don't have the book on hand to check.

He put them in blue robes after he decided to reinstate them. There's no indication that this was or was not their pre-Nikea attire.

As far as I know there is no indication either way. I don't think there is even an example in Collected Visions.

Bear in mind the council of Nicea outlawed the use of Librarians in battle, and some Legions had banned them in their entirety even prior to that (such as Mortarion and the Death Guard)

But we do know that both Techmarines and Apothecaries were in their legion standard colours (with one exception, an example of a white apothecary in Collected Visions - but he has mk7 armour as well, so not sure if the artistic license got stretched a bit there). Therefore it would be logical for the Librarians to follow suit.

Also, another thing to think about when making a Pre-Heresy army is that you have to think of ways to differentiate your year 30,000 Legion from their standard, 40,000 contemporaries. One way of doing this (along with not including Chaplains) is to have marines in these specialist roles in standard coloured armour, especially for the loyalist Legions where you need to do everything you can to differentiate them as 30k marines.

Pretty much every PH Librarian I have seen has been in their Legion colours. But, I guess it ultimately comes down to what you think looks better!

Which Legion are you planning on collecting by the way?

For what it's worth...

I just checked the old RT era booklet that came with the space marine paint set "Space marine painting guide". It gives details and how-tos on how to paint blood angels, ultramarines, salamanders, and space wolves. For all of those chapters, the colors for librarians are as chapter, with a book marking.

Pre-heresy, in some chapters they were not marked at all. They had legion colors and as Nevelon said a book marking. There were instances of just no markings however, especially as of the Council of Nikaea where Psykers were "outlawed"

Pacific wrote:

Which Legion are you planning on collecting by the way?

I'm doing Imperial Fists, and planning on including Blood Angel allies, as my army is set around the time of the Siege of Terra. I was originally planning on having a captain for my HQ, but then I managed to snag a Sevrin Loth off of ebay for only one arm and half a leg, so I'll have a Libby too. Thus the reason for starting this thread.

Thanks to everyone for the responses, by the way!

The Siege of Terra happened after the Council of Nikaea and before the promulgation of Codex Astartes. Thus, it's reasonable to assume that the office of Librarian was still suppressed among the Loyalists. Since Librarians would not have officially existed at the Siege, they certainly wouldn't have been dressed a certain way. Problem solved.

I'm pretty sure that the librarian colour was blue, since Ultramarines started the idea of the Librarius, and so on....

thefarseerofnorthryde wrote:I'm pretty sure that the librarian colour was blue, since Ultramarines started the idea of the Librarius, and so on....

The idea was a thousand sons one..

Manchu wrote:The Siege of Terra happened after the Council of Nikaea and before the promulgation of Codex Astartes. Thus, it's reasonable to assume that the office of Librarian was still suppressed among the Loyalists. Since Librarians would not have officially existed at the Siege, they certainly wouldn't have been dressed a certain way. Problem solved.

I thought the Emperor reinstated them at the Seige to fight enemy psykers?

But, no they would have worn the standard garb.

Von Chogg wrote:

Librarians didn't really distinguish themselves, and would just use their powers in battle as if it were any other weapon. And chaplain did NOT exist. As the emperor didn't want anything like that.

There were Chaplains in the legions as far as a remember, the Emperor started the Chaplain edict, which was where chaplains were sent between the legion to learn from each other.

I think techmarines were red because it is the sacred colour of the Adeptus Mechanicus. The tech priest robes/ tabards are red during the pre-heresy crusades.

The Word Bearers had Chaplains before the Council of Nikea. And after the Council so did everyone. They were sworn to prevent Libbys doing anything with their powers and kill them if they did. I don't think EC had either though. I know they didn't have Libbies because they saw the psyker gene as a flaw and by that reasoning they didn't need Chaplains.

thefarseerofnorthryde wrote:I'm pretty sure that the librarian colour was blue, since Ultramarines started the idea of the Librarius, and so on....

The Codex colors Techmarines Red and Apothecaries White and Chaplains Black. I don't think the color choice had anything to do with the Ultramarines.

their weapons might be distinction enough right?
maybe some blue robes, or the horned skull?

Deadshot wrote:The Word Bearers had Chaplains before the Council of Nikea. And after the Council so did everyone. They were sworn to prevent Libbys doing anything with their powers and kill them if they did. I don't think EC had either though. I know they didn't have Libbies because they saw the psyker gene as a flaw and by that reasoning they didn't need Chaplains.

The EC had Chaplains as Lucius kills one in 'Galaxy in Flames' (I believe his name was Chamoseon? Not completely sure).

arkhamjack wrote:I'm doing Imperial Fists, and planning on including Blood Angel allies, as my army is set around the time of the Siege of Terra. I was originally planning on having a captain for my HQ, but then I managed to snag a Sevrin Loth off of ebay for only one arm and half a leg, so I'll have a Libby too. Thus the reason for starting this thread.

Ah great, glad you have an arm left so at least you will be able to paint him! I know what you mean about Sevrin though, it's a great shame it is not possible to buy him without his 'honour guard' (which don't really fit in with the aesthetic of my World Eaters) and £30 is too much for 1 model, however nice.

If you are doing the Seige of Terra a lot more goes. The mk6 (beaky) armour was in use then, as were things such as Vindicators. I like the idea of a mix of IF and BA, perhaps where they are in battered/repaired looking armour, with lots of wreckage and dirt modelled onto their bases.

1hadhq wrote:

thefarseerofnorthryde wrote:I'm pretty sure that the librarian colour was blue, since Ultramarines started the idea of the Librarius, and so on....

The idea was a thousand sons one..

I see

Until the codex they used their legion colours, and I think in cases so did the Chaplains too. For example in the art books the Thousand Sons Librarians wear legion colours, just with the addition of some texts, etc, though in another case Chaplain Xavier of the Salamanders is wearing his characteristic black armour (though he wore these colours in 3rd edition, before the art books came out). =/

I don't think there are any specific colors. And anyhow the only usage of power like that I can remember is the "saints" killing daemons in the emperors blessed name