Crimson Fist Emperor's Champions

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**Matt.Kingsley**

Has there been any background about Crimson Fists fielding Emperor's Champions since the destruction of their Fortress Monestry? Just wondering.

**Coolyo294**

AFAIK, Emperor's Champions are a distinctly Black Templar thing.

**Matt.Kingsley**

Emperor's Champions are used by the Imperial Fists and all their Successors... It's just the Crimson Fists don't use them commonly (as they have visions of the Emporer less than pretty much every other Imperial Fist successor) and, as far as I know, haven't used any since after the Rynn's World incident.

But I'm not a fluff guru and I only know what I've been told/read about Crimson Fist Emporer's Champions

**BlaxicanX**

I have never heard of the Crimson Fists having Emperor's Champions; only the Black Templars.

The Imperial Fists didn't even have Emperor's Champions. During the battle for Terra, Dorn basically just gave Sigismund this imaginary rank to make him feel honored/special so that he wouldn't feel left out once Dorn teleported onto the Vengeful Spirit. After the Heresy ended and the Codex Astartes was drawn up, Dorn told Sigimus to take half of the legion and do his own thing with the Crusades and he did. The Emperor's Champion rank became tradition after that within the Black Templars, starting with Sigismund and getting carried on through the generations from there.

**Matt.Kingsley**

An Emperor's Champion is an honourary position within the ranks of the Space Marines, especially amongst theFirst and Second Founding Chapters whose history dates back to the dark days of the Horus Heresy. Almost all Chapters of the Space Marines have had an Emperor's Champion of their own at one time or another, especially during the period following the Horus Heresy, known as the Great Scouring. The practice is much less common in the 41st Millennium. The position of Emperor's Champion has played an important role within the ranks of the zealous Black Templars Chapter since the Chapter's inception as a Successor of the Imperial Fists, and has been maintained with reverence and high esteem throughout nearly ten millennia of endless crusades and ceaseless conflicts. In battle it is the duty of a designated Emperor's Champion to seek out and challenge the commander of the enemy force, fighting him or her in single combat for the glory of the Emperor. Many great battles and wars have been turned in favour of the Imperium by the slaying of enemy leaders or other key figures in a foe's chain of command by an Emperor's Champion.

**SoloFalcon1138**

I think the lack of information is your answer...

**Matt.Kingsley**

ok, damn...
oh well, time to make it so!

**Asherian Command**

No the black armor and the black sword were destroyed by the destruction of the fortress monastery.
Unless the Black Templar gave them some items to replenish what they lost.

**Viersche**

first time i've heard of any other chapter aside from the Black Templars having emperor's champions. They have company champions that i know but not emperor's champions.

**Ma55ter_fett**

Asherian Command wrote:No the black armor and the black sword were destroyed by the destruction of the fortress monastery.
Unless the Black Templar gave them some items to replenish what they lost.

I hadn't heard that.

Regardless, an emperor’s champion (for the black Templar at least) are just given the best armor and weapons a crusade has at hand on the eve of battle. They just call it the armor of faith and the black sword for the sake of tradition.

**Platuan4th**

Viersche wrote:first time i've heard of any other chapter aside from the Black Templars having emperor's champions. They have company champions that i know but not emperor's champions.

When the original LE Emperor's Champion model was released in 3rd, y'know, this guy:

GW decided that they'd expand the previous Special Character to be available to everyone(so that every marine player would buy one), hence the fluff that every Chapter has had one before.

Since then, it's gone back to being Black Templar only and the Company Champion suddenly became a thing.

**Eidolon**

Your special detachment of crimson fists has a particularly zealous and talented sword fighter, and he is well known for duelling enemy champions and winning, thus giving him the honorary title of 'emperors champion'. There you go. As it was a tradition of legions lead by Dorn, this would make sense. And its not like the black templars are going to show up and go 'uh, no sorry, cant name your champion that'.

**Asherian Command**

Eidolon wrote:Your special detachment of crimson fists has a particularly zealous and talented sword fighter, and he is well known for duelling enemy champions and winning, thus giving him the honorary title of 'emperors champion'. There you go. As it was a tradition of legions lead by Dorn, this would make sense. And its not like the black templars are going to show up and go 'uh, no sorry, cant name your champion that'.

No its the fact that all of Dorn's Sons do this they need special armor and the special sword it was lost.
The Black Templars and Crimson Fists are bros. They both fought with each other. Hell the templars sent an entire crusade to help the crimson fists. *The Crusade of Brotherhood*
Where they were extremely angry at the orks. and they came and helped out the chapter by beating some ork arse!
They might of also dropped off a Black Armor and the Black Sword which are priceless.
They might be able to have one Emperors Champion but you cannot call yourself an emperor's champion without the correct items. Each Suit of Black Armor is Power armour crafted by the most skilled Techpriests, anointed with holy oils by servitors and with catechisms of hate written on it to protect it's wearer from any harm that may prevent him from fulfilling his duty.
And then the Black Swords are relics, but I think they are fine with relic blades which the chapter might still have.
The Crimson fist might still have one.
Open to Interpretation.

**Matt.Kingsley**

So should I just make some fluff for my Crimson Fists how they're searching for all the lost relics and have found several (such as the sword and armour for an Emperor's Champion, + The Scepter of the Sacred Blood)?

**McNinja**

Emperor. Not Emporer, Emperor.

**Matt.Kingsley**

sorry, when I type fast I misspell, a lot

**McNinja**

Eh, I've seen it a bunch of times on Dakka. Not a big deal, just making sure you know.

**Matt.Kingsley**

That's ok, I'd rather be corrected than look a fool

Anyway, yay or nay to relic search fluff?

**Pilau Rice**

All Imperial Fists successor Chapters take part, when they can, in the Feast of Blades tournament.

Your guy could be a dude who has won it and presented with some special armour and weapons as a sign of his prowess?

I only thought that the Black Templars fielded EC's as well.

Edit: Spellins

**BlaxicanX**

Matt.Kingsley wrote:
An Emperor's Champion is an honourary position within the ranks of the Space Marines, especially amongst theFirst and Second Founding Chapters whose history dates back to the dark days of the Horus Heresy. Almost all Chapters of the Space Marines have had an Emperor's Champion of their own at one time or another, especially during the period following the Horus Heresy, known as the Great Scouring. The practice is much less common in the 41st Millennium. The position of Emperor's Champion has played an important role within the ranks of the zealous Black Templars Chapter since the Chapter's inception as a Successor of the Imperial Fists, and has been maintained with reverence and high esteem throughout nearly ten millennia of endless crusades and ceaseless conflicts. In battle it is the duty of a designated Emperor's Champion to seek out and challenge the commander of the enemy force, fighting him or her in single combat for the glory of the Emperor. Many great battles and wars have been turned in favour of the Imperium by the slaying of enemy leaders or other key figures in a foe's chain of command by an Emperor's Champion.

What is the source for this?

**Matt.Kingsley**

mainly Codex: Space Marines (3rd Edition) as well as an article in a WD, don't know which issue, though

but as it is outdated and GW has removed it from all chapters (thanks Platuan4th) other than the Son's of Dorn

**J99Pwrangler**

I know that the soul drinkers ( a imperial fist successor) has a "champion" of sorts. I cant remember his name for the life of me tho. I do remember he was part of an assault squad, and lost both of his hands in combat. His body rejected the replacements, and he eventually attached (by himself) two swords to his stumps with rope. These eventually grew in to his flesh as a prememnet addition to his altered body. Since they have fallen from the Emperors light, and are renagades.

I believe thats the story, it may be a little off. But he is unmatched in his skills...

**Farseer Mael Dannan**

J99Pwrangler wrote:I know that the soul drinkers ( a imperial fist successor) has a "champion" of sorts. I cant remember his name for the life of me tho. I do remember he was part of an assault squad, and lost both of his hands in combat. His body rejected the replacements, and he eventually attached (by himself) two swords to his stumps with rope. These eventually grew in to his flesh as a prememnet addition to his altered body. Since they have fallen from the Emperors light, and are renagades.

I believe thats the story, it may be a little off. But he is unmatched in his skills...

Soul Drinkers were retcon'd to not be part of the Sons of Dorn. They supposedly got some of there Gene-seed and were able to conclude there origin was from a different Primarch. I also don't know if I would run an EC in any other army but the BT. Without his special rules, he's not what he's suppose to be.

**J99Pwrangler**

Soul Drinkers were retcon'd to not be part of the Sons of Dorn. They supposedly got some of there Gene-seed and were able to conclude there origin was from a different Primarch. I also don't know if I would run an EC in any other army but the BT. Without his special rules, he's not what he's suppose to be.

Really? This I have not heard of. I always thought that they were a second founding of the Imperial Fists. I could be wrong though....

**Matt.Kingsley**

was going to use the new allies rules so fluff and game would coinside and make sense

**Farseer Mael Dannan**

"After their capture, the remaining Soul Drinkers were brought to trial on board The Phalanx, and a conclave of Imperial Fist successor chapters and other concerned parties gathered to pass judgement on them. During the trial Commander Gethsemar of the Angels Sanguine states that the Sanguinary Priests of his Chapter have examined the gene-seed of the Soul Drinkers, as part of their research into the link between the gene-seed and the related Primarch and also to see if the chapters fall was related to corruption of the gene-seed, and they discovered that Rogal Dorn is not the Chapters' Primarch." - Phalanx (Novel)

**J99Pwrangler**

"After their capture, the remaining Soul Drinkers were brought to trial on board The Phalanx, and a conclave of Imperial Fist successor chapters and other concerned parties gathered to pass judgement on them. During the trial Commander Gethsemar of the Angels Sanguine states that the Sanguinary Priests of his Chapter have examined the gene-seed of the Soul Drinkers, as part of their research into the link between the gene-seed and the related Primarch and also to see if the chapters fall was related to corruption of the gene-seed, and they discovered that Rogal Dorn is not the Chapters' Primarch." - Phalanx (Novel)

wow, I guess I am ok with that. I would hate to see one of the sons of dorn have tainted gene seeds. Thank you for the correction!

Matt.Kingsley: Well with the new "allies" it might be pretty cool to ally the Templars, and Fist together.

**Kiryu Mk 3**

Farseer Mael Dannan wrote:"After their capture, the remaining Soul Drinkers were brought to trial on board The Phalanx, and a conclave of Imperial Fist successor chapters and other concerned parties gathered to pass judgement on them. During the trial Commander Gethsemar of the Angels Sanguine states that the Sanguinary Priests of his Chapter have examined the gene-seed of the Soul Drinkers, as part of their research into the link between the gene-seed and the related Primarch and also to see if the chapters fall was related to corruption of the gene-seed, and they discovered that Rogal Dorn is not the Chapters' Primarch." - Phalanx (Novel)

"See Moaury I told you I wasn't the father" sorry I couldn't resist on that last on.

But to the point, other chapters have company and chapter champions. They're not the same as those successor chapters of Dorn. The GK army has brother hood champions that are pretty good to use. There are differences between them of course.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Platuan4th wrote:

When the original LE Emperor's Champion model was released in 3rd, y'know, this guy:

This is one of the coolest figures GW has ever done.

**English Assassin**

Ma55ter_fett wrote:
Asherian Command wrote:No the black armor and the black sword were destroyed by the destruction of the fortress monastery.
Unless the Black Templar gave them some items to replenish what they lost.

I hadn't heard that.

Nor had I. Reference?

**Manchu**

I'd bet Index Astartes IV. B&C includes this in their write-up for the CFs and those guys are ... well, sticklers.