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Have both the new rulebook and the BA codex in hand.

Death company have 3 attacks base (2+1) and 5 on the charge because of the new wording of the rage special rule.
hitting meq on 3s and wounding on 3s those 5 attacks put out some hurt for 20points per model

Death Company with Jumppacks are crazy as they get an auto hit at str5 and i10. Thats 5 attacks and 1 autohit.

12 death company with jump packs. On the charge against Meq, they get 60 attacks +12 hits. 40 of the attacks hit, so 52 hits. 34.6 wound. 11.5 failed saves.
Thats against SM meq, with each charging death company putting out about 1 unsaved wound per model. 12 of them will kill a 5 man TH/SS terminator squad.

All that for 40 points per model. They double tap with their bolters and launch frag or krak grenades in shooting. They can also take power weapons for + points.

True...although 40 (actually 35) points per model isn't exactly a bargain. 12 Death Company will kill 5 TH/SS terminators? 420 points vs 200 points, I think that's reasonable. Plus, they're still not scoring units. Plus, their FnP is getting slightly worse. Plus, their Furious Charge no longer gives them Initiative 5. Plus, if they want to double tap bolters, they only have 2 attacks base (they have to choose bolters or bolt pistol).

Don't get me wrong - they're getting even more powerful than they are now. I just don't think they're going to be broken in the new edition (although I could obviously be completely wrong).

They dont just kill the 5 TH/SS terminators. They wipe the terminators before they get to strike.

lol and Death Company get rerolls to hit and wound on the charge with Lemartes and Astorath the Grim. At Strength and Weapon Skill 5.

They're expensive as sin and Furious Charge doesn't affect initiative anymore. If anything they're actually useful now, and I wouldn't say overpowered given the sidegrade/nerf to FnP.

Exergy wrote:They dont just kill 5 TH/SS terminators. They white the terminators before they get to strike.

So? Terminators almost always go last unless you have LC terminators, so of course the termies can't hit you if you kill them before they get the chance. Besides the whole edition is more killy, as has been mentioned their FnP has been nerfed as has cover so pump a few plasma shots or AP 3 shots at them and watch them die pretty quickly.

Is snap fire still in, because that is a little boost against them if it is.

From what the reddit guy said combined with their current rules:

Pros:
-2+ attack on charge with no movement towards closest enemy requirements anymore
-12 inch move + 2 D6 Charge with a reroll of that distance if you like.
- Auto hit at their base str and int 10 on assault.
-FNP against anything but an instant death attack, i.e. plasma.
- Relentless will allow them to double tap before they charge if you go with bolters.
- WS 5 for hitting on 3's
- Chaplains / Lemarties will allow rerolls of all hit and wound in close combat.
- Fearless units will not take extra casualties from combat loss, (if your losing combat anyway might be a worry).
- Stormraven can still hold jump infantry and fly in for a safe deployment from what we currently know.
- 3+ Rerollable to arrive from reserve now, with only 1D6 scatter and the mishap table is pretty tame now. This makes all BA jump infantry ultra reliable when coming in.

Negatives:
- Non scoring unit.
- Furious charge Init bonus dropped - pretty big factor against most MeQ.
- FNP 5+ instead of 4+, i.e. weaker aginst small arms fire.
- Some units can fire at reserves the turn they come in, this could be a big problem. Don't know how powerful it is yet.


All up quite a potent unit. I can see assault marines and a priest filling their role for cheaper though unless you're fighting something very power weapon heavy in which case sanguniary guard will fill the position better with their 2+ armour. DC will fill a role somewhere inbetween I think.

If Preferred Enemy rumour is true...

*pulls out Destroyer model*

Thats what I keep these fellas around for. 3+ armor save guys(such as Death Company) will get shredded easy.

Apparently its reroll 1s to hit and wound.

Exergy wrote:They dont just kill 5 TH/SS terminators. They white the terminators before they get to strike.

They what the terminators?

Lame and poorly worded.

labmouse42 wrote:

Exergy wrote:They dont just kill 5 TH/SS terminators. They white the terminators before they get to strike.

They what the terminators?

Lame and poorly worded.

stupid phone

I would point out that if we're talking about 420 points wiping out terminators without the temies getting a single attack

10 LC termies vs 5 TH/SS termies (LC termies on the charge after all we're giving the DC the charge)
40 attacks (2 base, 1 for off hand, 1 for charge)
20 hits
15 wounds (re-roll failed wounds)
2/3 saves, 5 dead termies.

The TH/SS never got an attack and thats 20 points cheaper then 12 DC.

Now, I am reserving judgement on how good they are until I see them in the context of the full new rules, but for me it looks like this makes them far more playable then they previously were, and it may push them from underpowered to too strong, but again, reserving judgement.

No, no they aren't.

Everything changes somewhat in the transition to 6th.

Lemartes can get 8 attacks on the charge now
(after taking 1 wound..)

Awesome Christ wrote:I would point out that if we're talking about 420 points wiping out terminators without the temies getting a single attack

10 LC termies vs 5 TH/SS termies (LC termies on the charge after all we're giving the DC the charge)
40 attacks (2 base, 1 for off hand, 1 for charge)
20 hits
15 wounds (re-roll failed wounds)
2/3 saves, 5 dead termies.

The TH/SS never got an attack and thats 20 points cheaper then 12 DC.

Now, I am reserving judgement on how good they are until I see them in the context of the full new rules, but for me it looks like this makes them far more playable then they previously were, and it may push them from underpowered to too strong, but again, reserving judgement.

With what we seem to understand this is not true. Lightning Claws are AP3 not 2.

So this is what would happen.


10 LC termies vs 5 TH/SS termies (LC termies on the charge after all we're giving the DC the charge)
40 attacks (2 base, 1 for off hand, 1 for charge)
20 hits
15 wounds (re-roll failed wounds)
5/6 saves, 2.5 or 3 dead termies.

Th/SS
swings back
4 attacks (2 base)
2 hit
1.66667 wound
=1.1111 dead (all though usually this seems to end up as 2)

ld check at -1 likely stay

8 LC termies vs 2 TH/SS termies
24 attacks (2 base, 1 for off hand,)
12 hits
9 wounds (re-roll failed wounds)
5/6 saves, 1.5 dead termies th/ss wiped out not quite the same is it.

So the Death Company one turn wipe out the Termies, then sit in the Open screaming "no cover here, shoot me to death please" plus 420 points vs 200 pts is a massive amount of difference in points.

captain collius wrote:

Awesome Christ wrote:I would point out that if we're talking about 420 points wiping out terminators without the temies getting a single attack

10 LC termies vs 5 TH/SS termies (LC termies on the charge after all we're giving the DC the charge)
40 attacks (2 base, 1 for off hand, 1 for charge)
20 hits
15 wounds (re-roll failed wounds)
2/3 saves, 5 dead termies.

The TH/SS never got an attack and thats 20 points cheaper then 12 DC.

Now, I am reserving judgement on how good they are until I see them in the context of the full new rules, but for me it looks like this makes them far more playable then they previously were, and it may push them from underpowered to too strong, but again, reserving judgement.

With what we seem to understand this is not true. Lightning Claws are AP3 not 2.

So this is what would happen.


10 LC termies vs 5 TH/SS termies (LC termies on the charge after all we're giving the DC the charge)
40 attacks (2 base, 1 for off hand, 1 for charge)
20 hits
15 wounds (re-roll failed wounds)
5/6 saves, 2.5 or 3 dead termies.

Th/SS
swings back
4 attacks (2 base)
2 hit
1.66667 wound
=1.1111 dead (all though usually this seems to end up as 2)

ld check at -1 likely stay

8 LC termies vs 2 TH/SS termies
24 attacks (2 base, 1 for off hand,)
12 hits
9 wounds (re-roll failed wounds)
5/6 saves, 1.5 dead termies th/ss wiped out not quite the same is it.

You are correct (provided LCs work the same as power swords), I apologies, I was thinking 5th LC termies.

Still what this means is that upgraded DC will now be as powerful for their points as LC termies are for (at least) the next 2 days.

So I still don't feel that more then double to points on the charge against units that specifically go last is a fair comparison for "are these guys over powered."

Awesome Christ wrote:You are correct (provided LCs work the same as power swords), I apologies, I was thinking 5th LC termies.

Still what this means is that upgraded DC will now be as powerful for their points as LC termies are for (at least) the next 2 days.

So I still don't feel that more then double to points on the charge against units that specifically go last is a fair comparison for "are these guys over powered."

Agreed just point out the math works against death company as well because they use AP3 weapons generally or you strike at the same time.