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Many people think that the Tau have been improved while others say nerfed.

IMHO, I think that they are better due to a better balanced main rulebook but not greatly improved at this time. My reasons for this are as follows:

Improvements:
Blacksun Filter(All units can now ignore night fight with a cheap peice of wargear)
New regroup rules(Our lower leadership is not as much of a drawback)
New wound allocation(Allows for tactical positioning to remove threats)
Jet-packs can move after deep strike
Improved Stealthsuits(They are good but do we reaaly need more short ranged S 5 shots??)

Losses:
Target Locks on Battlesuits(This hurts nour ability to engage the need number of threats allowed by newer low cost per model codices)
Reliable Crisis suit manuveurability(Yes we CAN move further but not reliably so)
Diminished damage output vs safe operating range against rapid-fire(The change to rapid fire improved other armies while the Crisis suits already had this. In order to reliably engage the enemy with our 18-24" weapons, we now are going to always be in range of their rapid fire weapons. I don't like being forced to run MP exclusively)
Disruption pods(Only good now for Going second on first turn and if unable to move)
Tank Durability
Increased movement by durable high threat enemiy units(This means that even when moving, in some senarios the Tau get only one turn of shooting,)

Now don't get me wrong, So far 6th ed plays in a manner that is much more enjoyable(tactical) than 5th. It really suites the Tau style and for this I am grateful. That said, we are still hampered by an aging codex with unit costs that are out of line with newer books.

6th ed has definitely changed the meta, The question is,"What can the Tau players do to adapt?


What are your thoughts Dakka?

Theres a couple more ive gleaned from the threads about 6th.

Pros:
Iridium armour is now very useful, no more power weapons carving straight through and expensive upgrade and as jsj movement is now random the drawback isnt so huge.

Devilfish Drones can now contest objectives... i find this hillarious.

Changes to preferred enemy means taking an ethereal and getting him killed might not be such a bad idea

Bonding knives now make firewarriors stubborn for the purpose of regrouping.

The General nerfing of cover saves to 5+ means if you want to use markerlights to strip back cover saves its now a damned sight easier.

Assault being less predictable means many will try to be closer before launching an attack, giving us mroe shooting time.

Overwatch snap shots mean fire warriors get 1 last chance before being torn to shreds in CC.

No more charging from reserves, our back line is safe from outlfankers/infiltrators.

All in all a fair few buffs, and we still have the best anti tank weapon in the game, I dont know what the new damage chart is like but the railgun gets a +2 on it anyway, not bad from 72" inches away.


i wouldnt be ordering a full orchestral symphony to celebrate, but we certianly didnt get as shafted as other races >.>... not to mention any names.... poor nids....

as it seems to me right now the drawbacks we got are much worse than the boni..
so i would say tau got even worse in 6th ed, however i have to test it first.

One of the points that disturbs me the most is the randomness in 6th ed
(like cc charges and the crisis suits fall back, which means the you cannot plan ahead like in 5th.)

stuff like firewarriors with pulse carbine got simply useless (yay)
the 15" for two shots rapid fire is nice, but the enemy can theoretically charge 18" now, so yea.


But what i find really sad is that GW simply does not manage to put out a simple balance sheet for such armies,
that adjust some point values and adds some rules to that unusable equippment and units we have...


(edit: on a second thought i should be happy because i will save a lot of money now (I won't buy the stupid rulebook nor any more units)
and might just as well play a modified pancake edition with some friends)

IPS wrote:as it seems to me right now the drawbacks we got are much worse than the boni..
so i would say tau got even worse in 6th ed, however i have to test it first.

I was thinking that yesterday but it turns out I was wrong. Pretty much every squad can be given night version for 3points which is a massive advantage. That’s 3 points per squad not per model.
Commander Battlesuits and drones can join Stealth teams gain infiltrate and stealth. A large amount of cheap gun drones with 2+cover saves to eat up firepower aimed at suits and a highly mobile squad moving up to 18” a turn with a good dice role. Possibley take 2+ armor and shield drones with 2+ armor to survive in CC now power weapons do not work against 2+.

Twin Linked plasma and flamer suits deal a lot of damage and if assaulted deal 2 plasma shots rerole misses and D3 flamer hits per suit. Firewarriors are tank killers with EMP. Krootox rapid firing out to 24” with s7 weapons. Cheap gun Drones using look out Sir to keep certain team leader battlesuits alive. Plus we are even better at popping tanks than ever before and in a night fight gun match no one can match us that I can think off. Bounding Knifes yet us regroup no matter what, new rule says always allowed to regroup.



"Devilfish Drones can now contest objectives... i find this hillarious. "
Drones could always contest objectives, I thought the last 5th FAQ turned them into gun drone squads but count as extra KP if killed.

I have a couple of questions on 6th edition tau.

How did Piranah come out with new fast skimmer rules and squadron rules? Also after looking at the FAQ can they make a full move , snap fire the main gun and the gun drones still fire at their own BS of 2?

Do seeker missiles get to hit flyers at BS 5 after you land a marker light? Did the Skyray get sky fire?

Ok that was more than a couple, but I'm excited lol

Ok one more question. Does over watch with pinning weapons still force an immediate moral check vs pinning?

Btw all battlesuits actually got nerfed in having to pay for night vision where as before it was free :<

also, Skyray didnt get skyfire, I was annoyed about this, BUT: Skyfire means you can only snapshop vs ground targets, and tbh id rather my skyray only hits aircraft on 6s rather than ground.
and yes, seeker missiles always fire at BS5

and no overwatch doesnt cause pinning, no point taking pulse carbines. ever lol

Also, sniper teams, 2+ cover? hmmm gunna be taking 2 next week and see how that plays out ^^

I dont think the Tau got buffed or nerfed when all is said and done.

They will play out the same. The Target locks wont do much since most people use more than one single shot to take down a tank. So a 2 man XV88 team will simply just shoot at the tank.

Vespids actually get alot better since they can Deep strike into cover and shoot its ap killer guns. Maybe worth it ?

Suits dont change much everyone was running knives, rains and storms or helios anyways.

They pretty much do the same thing now.

The firewarrior rapidfire thing is moot. Most people dont run gunline FW squads anyways, Most are in fish and hiding in reserve. Putting scoring units out in the opne when they suck is still not a viable idea even if you get to move 6" and fire 1 shot.


Nothing really changes. Iridium is def alot better now along with a few other wargear tricks.

Tun_Tau wrote:I have a couple of questions on 6th edition tau.

How did Piranah come out with new fast skimmer rules and squadron rules? Also after looking at the FAQ can they make a full move , snap fire the main gun and the gun drones still fire at their own BS of 2?

Do seeker missiles get to hit flyers at BS 5 after you land a marker light? Did the Skyray get sky fire?

Ok that was more than a couple, but I'm excited lol

Ok one more question. Does over watch with pinning weapons still force an immediate moral check vs pinning?

Skimmers have Jink, which is 5+. Fast Skimmer can Flat out 18" (max 30" move), which increases the save to 4+. Seeker Missiles hit Flyers on 6s and so do Markerlights.

IPS wrote:as it seems to me right now the drawbacks we got are much worse than the boni..
so i would say tau got even worse in 6th ed, however i have to test it first.

One of the points that disturbs me the most is the randomness in 6th ed
(like cc charges and the crisis suits fall back, which means the you cannot plan ahead like in 5th.)

stuff like firewarriors with pulse carbine got simply useless (yay)
the 15" for two shots rapid fire is nice, but the enemy can theoretically charge 18" now, so yea.


But what i find really sad is that GW simply does not manage to put out a simple balance sheet for such armies,
that adjust some point values and adds some rules to that unusable equippment and units we have...


(edit: on a second thought i should be happy because i will save a lot of money now (I won't buy the stupid rulebook nor any more units)
and might just as well play a modified pancake edition with some friends)

It seems to me that you're wrong. You can move AND shoot a shot at 30" with your pulse rifle. Pulse Carbines were useless before, so no big change there. Fall Back has always been random, and charge also means you can jump shoot jump 6" shoot 12" if you're lucky.

I am still surprised that Tau and Space Marines are now Battle Brothers, but there is not a single sentence as to why.
Maybe a teaser for the Tau Codex next year, but still ...

Kroothawk wrote:I am still surprised that Tau and Space Marines are now Battle Brothers, but there is not a single sentence as to why.
Maybe a teaser for the Tau Codex next year, but still ...

IIRC, already in 5th Edition Space Marine codex there was a mention how Ultramarines and Tau had fought "side to side" at some point.

Just looked at the FAQ today and saw that Target Locks were gone. There goes the viability of any Farsight list. When you've only got one unit of Broadsides and one Hammerhead you really need to have that option to split fire with those XV88s.

I can see some of their reasons for doing it. At S10 AP1 you could quite reliably pop 3 Rhinos a turn with the new vehicle damage chart and bonuses for AP1.

However I disagree that taking away the Tau's ability to split fire (which we pay extra for) whilst leaving the Space Wolves one (which they get included in their units (comparatively) cheap points cost) intact is good balance.

IPS wrote:

stuff like firewarriors with pulse carbine got simply useless (yay)
the 15" for two shots rapid fire is nice, but the enemy can theoretically charge 18" now, so yea.

Who gets the ability to charge 18 inches? i dont think anyone does....

Tau definitely got a lot better in my opinion. The new vehicle rules will help them a lot. Railguns destroy anything on a damage roll of 4+, and firewarriors can glance av11 to death. Seems like a huge buff, especially when firewarriors can fire on the move.

Everyone seems to mention JSJ as a nerf with the random 12 inches, but the average is 7 inches on a 2d6 roll.... seems like a buff.

Tau will basically be played the same. Only with more mobile fire-warriors and maybe stealth suits and sniper teams making a comeback. Especially with not being able to split broadside fire... Maybe sniper teams will be taken as they can automatically target different units.

Sucks about Taget Locks, but it appears from the FAQ you can still get them on vehicles it appears ( the piranha entry still lists target arrays)

Tun_Tau wrote:Sucks about Taget Locks, but it appears from the FAQ you can still get them on vehicles it appears ( the piranha entry still lists target arrays)

Yeah, Target Locks are still in the Vehicle Armoury.

McNinja wrote:. Seeker Missiles hit Flyers on 6s and so do Markerlights.

Nope, seekers are still BS5, check the FAQ

Paris.in.Flames wrote:

IPS wrote:

stuff like firewarriors with pulse carbine got simply useless (yay)
the 15" for two shots rapid fire is nice, but the enemy can theoretically charge 18" now, so yea.

Who gets the ability to charge 18 inches? i dont think anyone does....

Tau definitely got a lot better in my opinion. The new vehicle rules will help them a lot. Railguns destroy anything on a damage roll of 4+, and firewarriors can glance av11 to death. Seems like a huge buff, especially when firewarriors can fire on the move.

Everyone seems to mention JSJ as a nerf with the random 12 inches, but the average is 7 inches on a 2d6 roll.... seems like a buff.

Tau will basically be played the same. Only with more mobile fire-warriors and maybe stealth suits and sniper teams making a comeback. Especially with not being able to split broadside fire... Maybe sniper teams will be taken as they can automatically target different units.

The 18" charge range is 6" movement then 2d6" charge, rolling 2 sixes.

Yes, the average on 2d6 is seven, but what happens if we roll double 1? Jetpacks don't get a re-roll, we would move 2". I'd take a reliable 6" over the possibility to be left stranded in the open with no cover any day.

And no, Sniper Drones can't target separate units anymore. Target Locks are gone so Sniper Drones can't split their fire as they came equipped with them, it's what gave them their Split Fire ability.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
The changes to stealth field generators are pretty nice. Stealth Suits having a 4+ cover save in the open will make them a bit more survivable against AP3 shooting and if you get them into any terrain then that jumps up to 2+. We have Terminator armour against shooting now, yay! All we need now is a Special Character to make these guys able to hold objectives and we'll be doing pretty good when we have a team sitting in a ruin on top of an objective.

A Town Called Malus wrote:


The 18" charge range is 6" movement then 2d6" charge, rolling 2 sixes.

Yes, the average on 2d6 is seven, but what happens if we roll double 1? Jetpacks don't get a re-roll, we would move 2". I'd take a reliable 6" over the possibility to be left stranded in the open with no cover any day.

And no, Sniper Drones can't target separate units anymore. Target Locks are gone so Sniper Drones can't split their fire as they came equipped with them, it's what gave them their Split Fire ability.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
The changes to stealth field generators are pretty nice. Stealth Suits having a 4+ cover save in the open will make them a bit more survivable against AP3 shooting and if you get them into any terrain then that jumps up to 2+. We have Terminator armour against shooting now, yay! All we need now is a Special Character to make these guys able to hold objectives and we'll be doing pretty good when we have a team sitting in a ruin on top of an objective.

Ahhh. I see what you mean by charge distance. Still, you cant assume that they will roll the double 6's even with rerolls, just like you cant assume the double 1's will be rolled for crisis suits. Still, i get what you are saying.

Also, i just meant that you can take three sniper teams in one slot. This throws in a lot of shot saturation even if it is only strength 6.

i really think that we might see people dropping a team of fireknives for stealth suits.

Paris.in.Flames wrote:

A Town Called Malus wrote:


The 18" charge range is 6" movement then 2d6" charge, rolling 2 sixes.

Yes, the average on 2d6 is seven, but what happens if we roll double 1? Jetpacks don't get a re-roll, we would move 2". I'd take a reliable 6" over the possibility to be left stranded in the open with no cover any day.

And no, Sniper Drones can't target separate units anymore. Target Locks are gone so Sniper Drones can't split their fire as they came equipped with them, it's what gave them their Split Fire ability.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
The changes to stealth field generators are pretty nice. Stealth Suits having a 4+ cover save in the open will make them a bit more survivable against AP3 shooting and if you get them into any terrain then that jumps up to 2+. We have Terminator armour against shooting now, yay! All we need now is a Special Character to make these guys able to hold objectives and we'll be doing pretty good when we have a team sitting in a ruin on top of an objective.

Ahhh. I see what you mean by charge distance. Still, you cant assume that they will roll the double 6's even with rerolls, just like you cant assume the double 1's will be rolled for crisis suits. Still, i get what you are saying.

Also, i just meant that you can take three sniper teams in one slot. This throws in a lot of shot saturation even if it is only strength 6.

i really think that we might see people dropping a team of fireknives for stealth suits.

Oh yeah, the charge distance is the two extremes. If Jet Packs had got a re-roll like normal Jump packs do when assaulting if they only moved 6" in the movement phase then I wouldn't be so worried. As it is I know that there'll be a couple of times when my suits end up stranded out in the open due to to not getting quite enough movement to get back into cover. Then it'll be a couple of Krak Missiles pasting them over the floor.

I think Stealth Suits will be making a resurgence. They've effectively become our most survivable unit, effectively getting a Shield Generator for free against most shooting and having that Shield Gen give a 2+ save when they're in terrain or from the bonuses from shooting at the longer ranges during Night Fighting. Now all they really need to fear is weaponry which disallows Cover saves, such as flamers.

A Town Called Malus wrote:Just looked at the FAQ today and saw that Target Locks were gone. There goes the viability of any Farsight list. When you've only got one unit of Broadsides and one Hammerhead you really need to have that option to split fire with those XV88s.

I can see some of their reasons for doing it. At S10 AP1 you could quite reliably pop 3 Rhinos a turn with the new vehicle damage chart and bonuses for AP1.

However I disagree that taking away the Tau's ability to split fire (which we pay extra for) whilst leaving the Space Wolves one (which they get included in their units (comparatively) cheap points cost) intact is good balance.

Cose you know, S8 ap3 is the same as S10 ap1... right?

Milisim wrote:

Vespids actually get alot better since they can Deep strike into cover and shoot its ap killer guns. Maybe worth it ?

Vespid could always deep strike and shoot, nothing changes for them, it only gets worse as rapid fire weapons can kill them easier now.

Krootox got better though, rapid fire auto cannons at 24 inches isn't so bad.

xxvaderxx wrote:

A Town Called Malus wrote:Just looked at the FAQ today and saw that Target Locks were gone. There goes the viability of any Farsight list. When you've only got one unit of Broadsides and one Hammerhead you really need to have that option to split fire with those XV88s.

I can see some of their reasons for doing it. At S10 AP1 you could quite reliably pop 3 Rhinos a turn with the new vehicle damage chart and bonuses for AP1.

However I disagree that taking away the Tau's ability to split fire (which we pay extra for) whilst leaving the Space Wolves one (which they get included in their units (comparatively) cheap points cost) intact is good balance.

Cose you know, S8 ap3 is the same as S10 ap1... right?

Well for the price of one Broadside with a target lock you can have 3 Long Fangs with Missile Launchers.

The maximised XV88 unit for split firing was 1 with a target lock, 1 with a targeting array and a team leader with targeting array and hard-wired target lock.
That gave you the ability to shoot at 3 different targets, with two of the shots at BS4. It cost 250 points. Add on 2 shield drones for wound allocation and that's 280 points.
For those points you could have 11 Long Fangs, giving you 11 BS4 S8 AP3 shots which can all fire at different targets. In 6th 3 glancing hits with missile launchers wrecks a vehicle just as well as 1 penetrating hit with a Railgun, so the Long Fangs could do just as much damage.

You can deep strike the vespids INTO cover. Fire and then go to ground. This makes Vespids much more useful than before.

Still they suck like most of the tau codex. They remain a bottom tier army for 6E until the new book comes out.


Just like we can now take an Ethereal and stick him out in the middle of the battlefield and ask the enemy to kill him.
that works in our favour =]

Milisim wrote:You can deep strike the vespids INTO cover. Fire and then go to ground. This makes Vespids much more useful than before.

Still they suck like most of the tau codex. They remain a bottom tier army for 6E until the new book comes out.


Just like we can now take an Ethereal and stick him out in the middle of the battlefield and ask the enemy to kill him.
that works in our favour =]

They could do all that in 5th ed.

Captain Avatar wrote:Many people think that the Tau have been improved while others say nerfed.

IMHO, I think that they are better due to a better balanced main rulebook but not greatly improved at this time. My reasons for this are as follows:

Improvements:
Blacksun Filter(All units can now ignore night fight with a cheap peice of wargear)
New regroup rules(Our lower leadership is not as much of a drawback)
New wound allocation(Allows for tactical positioning to remove threats)
Jet-packs can move after deep strike
Improved Stealthsuits(They are good but do we reaaly need more short ranged S 5 shots??)

Losses:
Target Locks on Battlesuits(This hurts nour ability to engage the need number of threats allowed by newer low cost per model codices)
Reliable Crisis suit manuveurability(Yes we CAN move further but not reliably so)
Diminished damage output vs safe operating range against rapid-fire(The change to rapid fire improved other armies while the Crisis suits already had this. In order to reliably engage the enemy with our 18-24" weapons, we now are going to always be in range of their rapid fire weapons. I don't like being forced to run MP exclusively)
Disruption pods(Only good now for Going second on first turn and if unable to move)
Tank Durability
Increased movement by durable high threat enemiy units(This means that even when moving, in some senarios the Tau get only one turn of shooting,)

Now don't get me wrong, So far 6th ed plays in a manner that is much more enjoyable(tactical) than 5th. It really suites the Tau style and for this I am grateful. That said, we are still hampered by an aging codex with unit costs that are out of line with newer books.

6th ed has definitely changed the meta, The question is,"What can the Tau players do to adapt?


What are your thoughts Dakka?

I think you forgot overwatch, it made necron destoryers somewhat playable again.

I feel that Tau got an overall nerf in the long run here. The removal of Target locks is probably my biggest gripe out of it all. Now instead of being able to take 4 broadsides and pop 4 vehicles, I can only get 2. The lowered ability to immobilize a vehicle also seems to hurt (in the games i have played so far). The hull points are nice, but Tau don't necessarily have the huge amount of spam other codices have to make use of this.

BSFs are nice now, with night fight a lot more prevalent than before.

People are super happy for Stealthsuits, but I still see them as horribly overpriced 18" weapon platforms. You can join an HQ to it, but I don't think you can as long as the HQ has a bodyguard already. Feels moot to say that one crisis suit in a pack of stealths is a bonus lol.

Sniper Drone teams got nerf with the target lock removal as well. They are also still over priced as hell.

No Skyfire at all means we have to turn to allies and fortifications to solve this problem.

Also I would never think getting our Ethereal killed is a good idea. As if we have just less than half a chance to run right off the board with our low average LD. If you run mech and deepstrike this might work to try though. All in reserves and throw him on the board by himself as the only target on the board first turn. At that point you would not have to take any LD checks and then come in turn 2. Oh course if your opponent is smart he wouldn't shoot it at all.

Vespids can DS into cover with no impact on themselves this is the major point that did not happen in 5e.

And suiciding a Ethereal would be a benefit now due to the 6E PE rules...

So no none of that was possible in 5E.

The changes to the Tau are very subtle.. The fact I said vespids can DS into cover and no one catches what im saying is a fine example of just how subtle it is.

Except no one cares about Vespids because they are terrible units. Vespids are so subtle they might as well of not been added to the codex at all.

So tau have no way to kill flyers? I could have sworn that jet pack units had some bonus vs them but if not then oh boy things are going to get complicated for a while.

Well Rumor has it we will have a flyer in about a month (or at least know about it in WD). So I think things will fix themselves a little then. But this still leaves a majority of codices without any form of reliable Skyfire.

Pottsey wrote:

IPS wrote:as it seems to me right now the drawbacks we got are much worse than the boni..
so i would say tau got even worse in 6th ed, however i have to test it first.

I was thinking that yesterday but it turns out I was wrong. Pretty much every squad can be given night version for 3points which is a massive advantage. That’s 3 points per squad not per model.
Commander Battlesuits and drones can join Stealth teams gain infiltrate and stealth. A large amount of cheap gun drones with 2+cover saves to eat up firepower aimed at suits and a highly mobile squad moving up to 18” a turn with a good dice role. Possibley take 2+ armor and shield drones with 2+ armor to survive in CC now power weapons do not work against 2+.

Twin Linked plasma and flamer suits deal a lot of damage and if assaulted deal 2 plasma shots rerole misses and D3 flamer hits per suit. Firewarriors are tank killers with EMP. Krootox rapid firing out to 24” with s7 weapons. Cheap gun Drones using look out Sir to keep certain team leader battlesuits alive. Plus we are even better at popping tanks than ever before and in a night fight gun match no one can match us that I can think off. Bounding Knifes yet us regroup no matter what, new rule says always allowed to regroup.



"Devilfish Drones can now contest objectives... i find this hillarious. "
Drones could always contest objectives, I thought the last 5th FAQ turned them into gun drone squads but count as extra KP if killed.

Dark Eldar.
Emphasis mine.
DE get Night Fighting army wide for free. Tau now have to pay for it where they used to get it on suits at least for free. Since Night Fighting only adds to cover saves, why bother with the BSF? Markerlights remain your friend.

The Target Lock Nerf owas effing slowed and unnecessary. People talk about "Well, we could have popped 3 rhinos a turn per unit with these rules: that can't be allowed!" but they forget (or never knew) that we could do that in 3rd and 4th too. Oh yeah, also in 5th. It was one of our few saving graces. Now we can't do something that SW can do for free and for the same cost, while also being more resilient (wounds wise.) The only thing that will save Tau with regards to the Target Lock loss is whether or not the Meta DOES shift away from vehicles. If people decide that they're still worth the very low points cost that most vehicles (read: everyone but Tau and Eldar) are, then the meta won't shift far enough, and we lose out, while other spammier, more accurate, and cheaper armies do better than Tau do any day of the week.

On the plus side, CC kinda blows, so we'll see less of those armies show up and can concentrate on our shooting. Which... nearly any given codex can do better anyway...