Switch Theme:

6thEd: What counts as a "character"?  [RSS] Share on facebook Share on Twitter Submit to Reddit
»
Author Message
Advert


Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
  • No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
  • Times and dates in your local timezone.
  • Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
  • Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
  • Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now.




Made in us
Myrmidon Officer





NC

Question:

What counts as a character?
A Space Marine Sergeant is a character, as the book says.
All Independent Characters are characters by definition.
Mephiston is a character.

Is the Sanguinator a character?
Is a lone Black Templar Marine in a group of Neophytes a character?
Is a Deathjester in a group of Harlequins a character?
Is a Greater Daemon a character?
Is a Hive Tyrant a character?
Is a Hive Tyrant in a group of Hive Guard a character?
Is a Tervigon a character?
Is Bjorn, the Fell-Handed a character?
Is any Dreadnought a character?
Is a Dreadknight a character?

This matters tremendously for "Look out Sir!" effects, Precision Strikes, and even Challenges.
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut





In my opinion, the second sentence under "Character Types" on p63 of the 6e rulebook gives a formula for figuring that out if its not otherwise explicitly stated.
   
Made in ca
Fixture of Dakka




I would say what ever in the back of the BGB says (ch) character in the profile is a character. Also what ever the Errata/FAQ says.

So starting on page 410, References part II, should tell you what is and what is not a (ch) character. Hope this helps.

Agies Grimm:The "Learn to play, bro" mentality is mostly just a way for someone to try to shame you by implying that their metaphorical nerd-wiener is bigger than yours. Which, ironically, I think nerds do even more vehemently than jocks.

Everything is made up and the points don't matter. 40K or Who's Line is it Anyway?

Auticus wrote: Or in summation: its ok to exploit shoddy points because those are rules and gamers exist to find rules loopholes (they are still "legal"), but if the same force can be composed without structure, it emotionally feels "wrong".  
   
Made in us
Member of the Ethereal Council






For the most part, Leaders are chracters (Sgts and such) and any independent.

5000pts 6000pts 3000pts
 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




Davor is correct. All of your special characters (independent or not) are characters. The specific un-named hqs/elites to your army (i.e. sanguinary priests for BAs) are listed in app. 2 by your codex with the ch designation. If you're a space marine player, look at the space marine table on pg 411 and it shows who all in a space marine force is a character (generic librarians, sergeants, etc.)
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran



Upper East Side of the USA

Because I am impatient and cannot wait until I go home to check, can you guys confirm if dreadnoughts are treated as characters?
   
Made in us
Stalwart Veteran Guard Sergeant





dreads are not characters according to the BGB, but i would think that uniques are characters (Bjorn comes to mind)
   
Made in us
Stabbin' Skarboy






What I want to know is if all MCs are treated as characters. That would basically make them immune to hidden powerfists since they could just omnomnom the guy with the fist.

Mephiston sure got a lot more beastly though.

   
Made in us
Powerful Phoenix Lord





Buffalo, NY

Not all MCs are characters.

Greebo had spent an irritating two minutes in that box. Technically, a cat locked in a box may be alive or it may be dead. You never know until you look. In fact, the mere act of opening the box will determine the state of the cat, although in this case there were three determinate states the cat could be in: these being Alive, Dead, and Bloody Furious.
Orks always ride in single file to hide their strength and numbers.
Gozer the Gozerian, Gozer the Destructor, Volguus Zildrohar, Gozer the Traveler, and Lord of the Sebouillia 
   
Made in us
Death-Dealing Devastator






They forgot to include the Tyranid Prime in the Tyranid reference section....That made me kinda sad.

 
   
Made in nl
Blood-Drenched Death Company Marine





The Netherlands

Tyranid Prime is an Independent Character, so that would make him a character.

   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




And the list in the back is *not* complete.

No where is Mephiston listed as a character. Yet we know he is.

   
Made in se
Wicked Warp Spider






Ios

Independent Characters are Independent Characters, of course, so why bother spelling it out?

Mephiston is actually specifically mentioned on page 63, by the way.

Vehicles technically can be characters, but I think that until we get to a late-edition codex they will avoid it.

I really need to stay away from the 40K forums. 
   
Made in us
Tough Tyrant Guard





Mahtamori wrote:Independent Characters are Independent Characters, of course, so why bother spelling it out?

Mephiston is actually specifically mentioned on page 63, by the way.

Vehicles technically can be characters, but I think that until we get to a late-edition codex they will avoid it.


Pg 110 covers Mephiston and others.

Basically if it is unique and deploied as a unit of one, it is also consided to be a character.

There are no Special Characters listed in the back of the book.

That means Mephiston, Deathleaper and the rest can do direct hits and issue/recive challanges.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/07/06 21:42:50


 
   
Made in ca
Regular Dakkanaut




So a Tervigan is listed as MC(ch) and is deployed individually. Does that mean i can join my Tervigon with a unit of termagants so he can't be targeted separately? And i can take look out sir rolls if the tervigon is the closest model?
   
Made in nz
Regular Dakkanaut




A Tervigon cannot join units, as he is not an INDEPENDENT character.

Since he cannot join a unit, he is also unable to take Look Out Sir rolls.
   
Made in nl
Daring Dark Eldar Raider Rider





The Netherlands

Kiredor wrote:A Tervigon cannot join units, as he is not an INDEPENDENT character.

Since he cannot join a unit, he is also unable to take Look Out Sir rolls.

It can, however, rampage up to an Imperial Guard squad and then be politely asked by the squad's sergeant to duel him, saving the rest from his squad from imminent death. It's Matt Ward's way of making sure big spectacular (non-MEQ) MCs remain useless this edition.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/07/06 22:26:59


 
   
Made in ca
Angered Reaver Arena Champion






What about Firewarrior/crisis suit "team leaders"? You can purchase a team leader who is not an upgrade character - they have the same stat line as the normal guys (including LD) yet gain access to more equipment. Do they count as characters?

Sangfroid Marines 5000 pts
Wych Cult 2000
Tau 2000 
   
Made in nz
Regular Dakkanaut




Yeah, so you make sure that you are positioned in such a way the sergeant is at the other end of the unit, and so is not engaged with you so cannot challenge.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also Dracos, look in the back of the new Rulebook, at the section with all the profiles. If it has (ch) as a unit type its a character.

Otherwise, not.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/07/06 22:32:18


 
   
Made in us
Tough Tyrant Guard





Kiredor wrote:Yeah, so you make sure that you are positioned in such a way the sergeant is at the other end of the unit, and so is not engaged with you so cannot challenge.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also Dracos, look in the back of the new Rulebook, at the section with all the profiles. If it has (ch) as a unit type its a character.


If you accept the challenge you have to fight no matter where he is in the unit. You either accept and fight the challenge or decline and not fight in the combat at all.

   
Made in us
Irked Necron Immortal





Washington, USA

If you are a lone character, you may not decline a challenge as there are no troops to hide behind.


 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




Mandor wrote:
Kiredor wrote:A Tervigon cannot join units, as he is not an INDEPENDENT character.

Since he cannot join a unit, he is also unable to take Look Out Sir rolls.

It can, however, rampage up to an Imperial Guard squad and then be politely asked by the squad's sergeant to duel him, saving the rest from his squad from imminent death. It's Matt Ward's way of making sure big spectacular (non-MEQ) MCs remain useless this edition.

That is not what the rules say...

But I don't want to derail the thread:
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/60/459779.page




Automatically Appended Next Post:
Gloomfang wrote:
Kiredor wrote:Yeah, so you make sure that you are positioned in such a way the sergeant is at the other end of the unit, and so is not engaged with you so cannot challenge.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also Dracos, look in the back of the new Rulebook, at the section with all the profiles. If it has (ch) as a unit type its a character.


If you accept the challenge you have to fight no matter where he is in the unit. You either accept and fight the challenge or decline and not fight in the combat at all.



Nope, you can't issue challenges, nor accept challenges, if the character is not engaged in the fight.

(Hey, think I just found my #10)

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/07/06 23:32:46


 
   
Made in us
Tough Tyrant Guard





coredump wrote:Nope, you can't issue challenges, nor accept challenges, if the character is not engaged in the fight.

(Hey, think I just found my #10)



Sweet. This is a rule I don't mind being proven wrong on as it means that as long as I set up my charges right I don't have to have my Swarmlord taken out of action.

That makes me very happy.
   
Made in us
Heroic Senior Officer





Woodbridge, VA

Yep, keep the PF sgt in the back, so he cannot be challenged. Then at init 1 he piles in 3", becomes engaged and smacks whatever i is with the PF.

Don "MONDO"
www.ironfistleague.com
Northern VA/Southern MD 
   
Made in gb
Leader of the Sept







Mandor wrote:
Kiredor wrote:A Tervigon cannot join units, as he is not an INDEPENDENT character.

Since he cannot join a unit, he is also unable to take Look Out Sir rolls.

It can, however, rampage up to an Imperial Guard squad and then be politely asked by the squad's sergeant to duel him, saving the rest from his squad from imminent death. It's Matt Ward's way of making sure big spectacular (non-MEQ) MCs remain useless this edition.


But if you actually do this without any more characters around to deal with the thing next combat phase, what you will find is that the MC eats the rest of the squad in your turn, just in time to consolidate and munch into the next squad in his turn. This strategy will only work with blobs, or if you happen to have a lot of particularly extraneous and cheap ICs about.

Please excuse any spelling errors. I use a tablet frequently and software keyboards are a pain!

Terranwing - w3;d1;l1
51st Dunedinw2;d0;l0
Cadre Coronal Afterglow w1;d0;l0 
   
 
Forum Index » 40K You Make Da Call
Go to: