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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/07/01 17:31:11
Subject: 6thEd: What counts as a "character"?
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Myrmidon Officer
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Question:
What counts as a character?
A Space Marine Sergeant is a character, as the book says.
All Independent Characters are characters by definition.
Mephiston is a character.
Is the Sanguinator a character?
Is a lone Black Templar Marine in a group of Neophytes a character?
Is a Deathjester in a group of Harlequins a character?
Is a Greater Daemon a character?
Is a Hive Tyrant a character?
Is a Hive Tyrant in a group of Hive Guard a character?
Is a Tervigon a character?
Is Bjorn, the Fell-Handed a character?
Is any Dreadnought a character?
Is a Dreadknight a character?
This matters tremendously for "Look out Sir!" effects, Precision Strikes, and even Challenges.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/07/01 17:33:26
Subject: Re:6thEd: What counts as a "character"?
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Regular Dakkanaut
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In my opinion, the second sentence under "Character Types" on p63 of the 6e rulebook gives a formula for figuring that out if its not otherwise explicitly stated.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/07/01 17:33:42
Subject: 6thEd: What counts as a "character"?
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Fixture of Dakka
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I would say what ever in the back of the BGB says (ch) character in the profile is a character. Also what ever the Errata/FAQ says.
So starting on page 410, References part II, should tell you what is and what is not a (ch) character. Hope this helps.
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Agies Grimm:The "Learn to play, bro" mentality is mostly just a way for someone to try to shame you by implying that their metaphorical nerd-wiener is bigger than yours. Which, ironically, I think nerds do even more vehemently than jocks.
Everything is made up and the points don't matter. 40K or Who's Line is it Anyway?
Auticus wrote: Or in summation: its ok to exploit shoddy points because those are rules and gamers exist to find rules loopholes (they are still "legal"), but if the same force can be composed without structure, it emotionally feels "wrong". |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/07/01 17:34:27
Subject: 6thEd: What counts as a "character"?
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Member of the Ethereal Council
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For the most part, Leaders are chracters (Sgts and such) and any independent.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/07/01 17:40:36
Subject: Re:6thEd: What counts as a "character"?
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Regular Dakkanaut
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Davor is correct. All of your special characters (independent or not) are characters. The specific un-named hqs/elites to your army (i.e. sanguinary priests for BAs) are listed in app. 2 by your codex with the ch designation. If you're a space marine player, look at the space marine table on pg 411 and it shows who all in a space marine force is a character (generic librarians, sergeants, etc.)
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/07/06 19:22:45
Subject: 6thEd: What counts as a "character"?
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Dakka Veteran
Upper East Side of the USA
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Because I am impatient and cannot wait until I go home to check, can you guys confirm if dreadnoughts are treated as characters?
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/07/06 19:52:08
Subject: Re:6thEd: What counts as a "character"?
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Stalwart Veteran Guard Sergeant
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dreads are not characters according to the BGB, but i would think that uniques are characters (Bjorn comes to mind)
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/07/06 20:06:24
Subject: Re:6thEd: What counts as a "character"?
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Stabbin' Skarboy
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What I want to know is if all MCs are treated as characters. That would basically make them immune to hidden powerfists since they could just omnomnom the guy with the fist.
Mephiston sure got a lot more beastly though.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/07/06 20:09:24
Subject: 6thEd: What counts as a "character"?
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Powerful Phoenix Lord
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Not all MCs are characters.
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Greebo had spent an irritating two minutes in that box. Technically, a cat locked in a box may be alive or it may be dead. You never know until you look. In fact, the mere act of opening the box will determine the state of the cat, although in this case there were three determinate states the cat could be in: these being Alive, Dead, and Bloody Furious.
Orks always ride in single file to hide their strength and numbers.
Gozer the Gozerian, Gozer the Destructor, Volguus Zildrohar, Gozer the Traveler, and Lord of the Sebouillia |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/07/06 20:32:22
Subject: Re:6thEd: What counts as a "character"?
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Death-Dealing Devastator
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They forgot to include the Tyranid Prime in the Tyranid reference section....That made me kinda sad.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/07/06 20:52:17
Subject: 6thEd: What counts as a "character"?
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Blood-Drenched Death Company Marine
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Tyranid Prime is an Independent Character, so that would make him a character.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/07/06 20:57:10
Subject: 6thEd: What counts as a "character"?
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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And the list in the back is *not* complete.
No where is Mephiston listed as a character. Yet we know he is.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/07/06 21:08:27
Subject: 6thEd: What counts as a "character"?
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Wicked Warp Spider
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Independent Characters are Independent Characters, of course, so why bother spelling it out?
Mephiston is actually specifically mentioned on page 63, by the way.
Vehicles technically can be characters, but I think that until we get to a late-edition codex they will avoid it.
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I really need to stay away from the 40K forums. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/07/06 21:41:57
Subject: 6thEd: What counts as a "character"?
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Tough Tyrant Guard
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Mahtamori wrote:Independent Characters are Independent Characters, of course, so why bother spelling it out?
Mephiston is actually specifically mentioned on page 63, by the way.
Vehicles technically can be characters, but I think that until we get to a late-edition codex they will avoid it.
Pg 110 covers Mephiston and others.
Basically if it is unique and deploied as a unit of one, it is also consided to be a character.
There are no Special Characters listed in the back of the book.
That means Mephiston, Deathleaper and the rest can do direct hits and issue/recive challanges.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/07/06 21:42:50
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/07/06 22:18:44
Subject: Re:6thEd: What counts as a "character"?
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Regular Dakkanaut
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So a Tervigan is listed as MC(ch) and is deployed individually. Does that mean i can join my Tervigon with a unit of termagants so he can't be targeted separately? And i can take look out sir rolls if the tervigon is the closest model?
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/07/06 22:21:59
Subject: 6thEd: What counts as a "character"?
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Regular Dakkanaut
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A Tervigon cannot join units, as he is not an INDEPENDENT character.
Since he cannot join a unit, he is also unable to take Look Out Sir rolls.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/07/06 22:25:34
Subject: 6thEd: What counts as a "character"?
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Daring Dark Eldar Raider Rider
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Kiredor wrote:A Tervigon cannot join units, as he is not an INDEPENDENT character.
Since he cannot join a unit, he is also unable to take Look Out Sir rolls.
It can, however, rampage up to an Imperial Guard squad and then be politely asked by the squad's sergeant to duel him, saving the rest from his squad from imminent death. It's Matt Ward's way of making sure big spectacular (non- MEQ) MCs remain useless this edition.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/07/06 22:26:59
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/07/06 22:29:50
Subject: Re:6thEd: What counts as a "character"?
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Angered Reaver Arena Champion
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What about Firewarrior/crisis suit "team leaders"? You can purchase a team leader who is not an upgrade character - they have the same stat line as the normal guys (including LD) yet gain access to more equipment. Do they count as characters?
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Sangfroid Marines 5000 pts
Wych Cult 2000
Tau 2000 |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/07/06 22:30:23
Subject: 6thEd: What counts as a "character"?
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Regular Dakkanaut
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Yeah, so you make sure that you are positioned in such a way the sergeant is at the other end of the unit, and so is not engaged with you so cannot challenge. Automatically Appended Next Post: Also Dracos, look in the back of the new Rulebook, at the section with all the profiles. If it has (ch) as a unit type its a character.
Otherwise, not.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/07/06 22:32:18
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/07/06 22:58:42
Subject: 6thEd: What counts as a "character"?
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Tough Tyrant Guard
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Kiredor wrote:Yeah, so you make sure that you are positioned in such a way the sergeant is at the other end of the unit, and so is not engaged with you so cannot challenge.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also Dracos, look in the back of the new Rulebook, at the section with all the profiles. If it has (ch) as a unit type its a character.
If you accept the challenge you have to fight no matter where he is in the unit. You either accept and fight the challenge or decline and not fight in the combat at all.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/07/06 23:20:59
Subject: 6thEd: What counts as a "character"?
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Irked Necron Immortal
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If you are a lone character, you may not decline a challenge as there are no troops to hide behind.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/07/06 23:32:02
Subject: 6thEd: What counts as a "character"?
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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Mandor wrote:Kiredor wrote:A Tervigon cannot join units, as he is not an INDEPENDENT character.
Since he cannot join a unit, he is also unable to take Look Out Sir rolls.
It can, however, rampage up to an Imperial Guard squad and then be politely asked by the squad's sergeant to duel him, saving the rest from his squad from imminent death. It's Matt Ward's way of making sure big spectacular (non- MEQ) MCs remain useless this edition.
That is not what the rules say...
But I don't want to derail the thread:
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/60/459779.page
Automatically Appended Next Post: Gloomfang wrote:Kiredor wrote:Yeah, so you make sure that you are positioned in such a way the sergeant is at the other end of the unit, and so is not engaged with you so cannot challenge.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also Dracos, look in the back of the new Rulebook, at the section with all the profiles. If it has (ch) as a unit type its a character.
If you accept the challenge you have to fight no matter where he is in the unit. You either accept and fight the challenge or decline and not fight in the combat at all.
Nope, you can't issue challenges, nor accept challenges, if the character is not engaged in the fight.
(Hey, think I just found my #10)
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/07/06 23:32:46
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/07/06 23:49:24
Subject: 6thEd: What counts as a "character"?
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Tough Tyrant Guard
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coredump wrote:Nope, you can't issue challenges, nor accept challenges, if the character is not engaged in the fight.
(Hey, think I just found my #10)
Sweet. This is a rule I don't mind being proven wrong on as it means that as long as I set up my charges right I don't have to have my Swarmlord taken out of action.
That makes me very happy.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/07/07 04:46:22
Subject: 6thEd: What counts as a "character"?
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Heroic Senior Officer
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Yep, keep the PF sgt in the back, so he cannot be challenged. Then at init 1 he piles in 3", becomes engaged and smacks whatever i is with the PF.
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Don "MONDO"
www.ironfistleague.com
Northern VA/Southern MD |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/07/07 12:55:38
Subject: 6thEd: What counts as a "character"?
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Leader of the Sept
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Mandor wrote:Kiredor wrote:A Tervigon cannot join units, as he is not an INDEPENDENT character.
Since he cannot join a unit, he is also unable to take Look Out Sir rolls.
It can, however, rampage up to an Imperial Guard squad and then be politely asked by the squad's sergeant to duel him, saving the rest from his squad from imminent death. It's Matt Ward's way of making sure big spectacular (non- MEQ) MCs remain useless this edition.
But if you actually do this without any more characters around to deal with the thing next combat phase, what you will find is that the MC eats the rest of the squad in your turn, just in time to consolidate and munch into the next squad in his turn. This strategy will only work with blobs, or if you happen to have a lot of particularly extraneous and cheap ICs about.
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Please excuse any spelling errors. I use a tablet frequently and software keyboards are a pain!
Terranwing - w3;d1;l1
51st Dunedinw2;d0;l0
Cadre Coronal Afterglow w1;d0;l0 |
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