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I want to get this out of the way because it seems that some army lists going up around the web have this idea that you can take Eldrad/Farseer and make a semi-invincible Archon by casting Fortune with his shadow field.

We all know that within the context of the Eldar dex, Eldar means Craftworld Eldar. I'm not sure that you can really bend the RAW to make it seem that you can also target DARK Eldar when we know 100% that the RAI pertains to CraftElf.

On the other hand, I've never wanted to be wrong so much.......

Well... Dark Eldar are also Eldar. They should have specified "models from Codex:Eldar" in the faq as they have done for many other faqs. As it stands now it looks as Eldars of all colors will benefit. But that might not be the intent.

I want to agree with you, I really do.

There is no way that they had Dark Eldar in mind when they wrote the dex, but I suppose you could also say they didn't have allies in mind ('Eldar' = friendly) in which case they should have addressed it in the FAQ.

There is also no way I could argue this at FLGS without some rock hard reasoning.

I'm not even sure that RAW works; 'Eldar' is the name of their codex, so it would it only works for units in that codex.

I was thinking about this as well, a lot of eldars stuff seems to be fairly inferior in regards to dark eldar hence why guide and such are so good for them.

If this is able to be passed onto dark eldar units it would be quite awesome albeit probably broken.

Im hoping they will address it at some point to give a definitive answer but for right now eldar is eldar whether its dark or not there both eldar

Well I suppose it's really only fortune which is contentious because any psyker with divination can get a better version of Guide through Prescience (you don't even have you roll for it), and because of the Shadowfield thing, which isn't exactly unbreakable.

Can we really say Eldar is any Eldar though?
Hypothetically (because I know they can't ally) if there was a SM librarian ability that could only be cast on 'Space Marines' could we expect it to work on Chaos Space Marines?

I don't think that it is a problem now...later it might get changed. If you think you opponent might disagree with you then run the farseer/Eldrad with the unit that you are wanting to Fortune. Then he targets himself (which is from Codex: Eldar) and the unit benefits. Normally an archon and some Incubi being fortuned is enough of a defense to keep him safe.

BTW the shadowfield still seems to fail on the first wound that would ID the Archon. Happened yesterday

So what's the jury? From Akroma06's example we can see that you can probably do this combo if he's joined.

Here's the wording:

Fortune: The Farseer scries the strands of the future to see where the enemy will attack, warning fellow Eldar so that they may avoid enemy fire. Nominate one Eldar unit with a model within 6" of the Farseer. This unit re-rolls any failed saves it makes until the star of the next Eldar turn.

So would the above example even work? The DE squad is not an Eldar unit. The only 'unit' you are nominating is Eldrad and only the Eldar unit gets the bonus, so I'm thinking only Eldrad would get it.

I'm only playing Devil's Advocate here, because If I'm going to use it I don't want any ambiguity.

It does not matter for guide.

The divination primaris power is called prescience. It allows a friendly unit within 12" to reroll to hit.

You can freely swap guide for this power so it really is not an issue.

Check out vect's entry in codex dark eldar. It says he gets preferred enemy eldar and goes on to say this means eldar and dark eldar.

haroon wrote:Check out vect's entry in codex dark eldar. It says he gets preferred enemy eldar and goes on to say this means eldar and dark eldar.

No, he has Preferred Enemy (everything) and can re-roll to wound against Eldar and Dark Eldar.

Edit : Nm i confused this with another rule

Lightcavalier wrote:It does not matter for guide.

The divination primaris power is called prescience. It allows a friendly unit within 12" to reroll to hit.

You can freely swap guide for this power so it really is not an issue.

Yes but you can't mix codex and RB powers, so you have to replace all, which I will most likely be doing anyway.

However if it could be shown that fortune could work on DE than it might be worth taking.

So, you just need to target an Eldar unit, the benefit will then apply to the whole unit. If the Farseer himself is attached to a unit of DE he would be a valid target.

I dont see how in this case Eldar is equal to Dark Eldar. Just like being able to cast a benefit on a space marine would not allow you to do this on a chaos marine. Different names, different codex.

Also i dont see any reason why Fortune on a farseer would carry over to a Dark Eldar unit it has joined. The entry says: "THIS unit re-rolls any failed saves...", and thats not the Dark Eldar unit as it cant be targeted.

As a Dark Eldar player i would like to be able to do it, but i dont see how.

Dark eldar != eldar. They are two separate codexes. There are examples of this in other FAQs. For example, a space marine chaplain abities only work for space marines, but not blood angles even though BA are space marines, its a different dex. Until GW says eldar = dark eldar there's no way I'll let that go. Battle brother or not, RAW doesn't allow this.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Dark eldar != eldar. They are two separate codexes. There are examples of this in other FAQs. For example, a space marine chaplain abities only work for space marines, but not blood angles even though BA are space marines, its a different dex. Until GW says eldar = dark eldar there's no way I'll let that go. Battle brother or not, RAW doesn't allow this.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Actually if you cast it on the farseer and he's in the unit it should transfer over because he is part of the unit. I can see that being a work around.

Think of it this way. Grey Knights get Preferred Enemy (Daemons). Does this mean it doesn't apply to Chaos Daemons who are clearly not just Daemons?

andrewm9 wrote:Think of it this way. Grey Knights get Preferred Enemy (Daemons). Does this mean it doesn't apply to Chaos Daemons who are clearly not just Daemons?

This is different because the FAQ defines what a daemon is

 Sothas wrote:
Dark eldar != eldar. They are two separate codexes. There are examples of this in other FAQs. For example, a space marine chaplain abities only work for space marines, but not blood angles even though BA are space marines, its a different dex. Until GW says eldar = dark eldar there's no way I'll let that go. Battle brother or not, RAW doesn't allow this.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Dark eldar != eldar. They are two separate codexes. There are examples of this in other FAQs. For example, a space marine chaplain abities only work for space marines, but not blood angles even though BA are space marines, its a different dex. Until GW says eldar = dark eldar there's no way I'll let that go. Battle brother or not, RAW doesn't allow this.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Actually if you cast it on the farseer and he's in the unit it should transfer over because he is part of the unit. I can see that being a work around.

he is why i think you just proved yourself wrong. in the first round of FAQs they went out of their way to specify that things like Sanguinary Priests FNP bubbles only apply to "Codex:BA". ok using this logic and the evidence of GW wanting to distinguish power like that clearly it would stand to reason that they would also include an entry like that for the fortune entry in the Eldar FAQ that says clearly fortune only applies to "Codex:Eldar". for that reason and the fact that dark eldar are in fact still eldar, the RAW allows it.

Wrong. Vect proves you wrong, as he has PE:Eldar and PEark Eldar.

RAW you are wrong even without this, as Eldar is a proper noun and so is Dark Eldar. You cannot simply remove "Dark" from it.

nosferatu1001 wrote:
Wrong. Vect proves you wrong, as he has PE:Eldar and PEark Eldar.

RAW you are wrong even without this, as Eldar is a proper noun and so is Dark Eldar. You cannot simply remove "Dark" from it.

No Vect has Preferred Enemy (Everyrthing). He has an extra bonus against Eldar and Dark Eldar.

Ah, ok, forgot his rule and too lazy to get the codex - i knew he had a rule that specified a difference in Eldar and DE though, so i was close. Marks for approach?

It says he knows the weakness of his own race most thoroughly of all, and gets to reroll wounds against Eldar and Dark Eldar. It does say they are the same race, but differentiates codices.

I had a similar thought, but further digging I think Eldar powers only work on Codex Eldar units.

 Maige wrote:
I want to get this out of the way because it seems that some army lists going up around the web have this idea that you can take Eldrad/Farseer and make a semi-invincible Archon by casting Fortune with his shadow field.

You could always have the Archon from Codex: Dark Eldar and then join him to a unit of, say, Harlequins bought from Codex: Eldar, then cast Fortune on the Harlequin unit.

I'm convinced that 'Eldar Unit' means units that are both 'Craftworld Eldar' and 'Dark Eldar'. Otherwise, nothing could target a 'Friendly Unit' because there is no 'Codex: Friendlies'. If anyone gives you too much trouble over it, simply take some 'Craftworld Eldar' Harlequins that get Stealth, Shrouded, and require range testing.

 Oaka wrote:
I'm convinced that 'Eldar Unit' means units that are both 'Craftworld Eldar' and 'Dark Eldar'. Otherwise, nothing could target a 'Friendly Unit' because there is no 'Codex: Friendlies'. If anyone gives you too much trouble over it, simply take some 'Craftworld Eldar' Harlequins that get Stealth, Shrouded, and require range testing.

Friendly units are units from the codex and Battle Brothers. If the Eldar powers said they targeted a friendly unit they could be used on Battle Brothers. However, they specify that they only affect Eldar units. Oh, and I do take my C:Eldar Harlequins with Shadowseer.

Happyjew wrote:

 Oaka wrote:
I'm convinced that 'Eldar Unit' means units that are both 'Craftworld Eldar' and 'Dark Eldar'. Otherwise, nothing could target a 'Friendly Unit' because there is no 'Codex: Friendlies'. If anyone gives you too much trouble over it, simply take some 'Craftworld Eldar' Harlequins that get Stealth, Shrouded, and require range testing.

Friendly units are units from the codex and Battle Brothers. If the Eldar powers said they targeted a friendly unit they could be used on Battle Brothers. However, they specify that they only affect Eldar units. Oh, and I do take my C:Eldar Harlequins with Shadowseer.

I think that proves my point, then.

Except Eldar =/= Dark Eldar.

If GW wanted C:Eldar powers to target Dark Eldar the FAQ would have said to change the wording to "Nominate one Eldar or Dark Eldar unit with a model within X". Since they did not, the powers can only target an Eldar unit (i.e a unit from C:Eldar).

 Oaka wrote:
I'm convinced that 'Eldar Unit' means units that are both 'Craftworld Eldar' and 'Dark Eldar'. Otherwise, nothing could target a 'Friendly Unit' because there is no 'Codex: Friendlies'. If anyone gives you too much trouble over it, simply take some 'Craftworld Eldar' Harlequins that get Stealth, Shrouded, and require range testing.

So then all references to Dark Eldar means Eldar too ?

They are clearly separate and distinct races with different codex.

Obviously it's still a debate for a lot of people, but our group decided pretty quickly that Eldar refers to good and bad Eldar, so we play it that way. Your experience may vary.

Eldar is the name of an army.

Dark Eldar is the name of a different army.

Eldar /= Dark Eldar