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 Afrodactyl wrote:
Having jigged my list about again, I can safely say that so far I'm really enjoying a unit of three all-klaw dreads and tellyporting them in.

They do a really nice amount of damage if at least two make their charges, especially in a Waaagh turn, and 24 T7 3+ wounds is nothing to sniff at in terms of durability.

I've not had many games with them, but so far they're performing really well. My whole army (sans Mek Gun) being on top of the opponent and all the objectives by the end of my second movement phase at the absolute latest is really nice.

Do you not find it incredibly hard to drop 3 large base within 6" of each other and with all 3 within 9" of the enemy. It may be better to just put all 3 into reserve as separate units. Its the same cost, they don't have to deploy near each other and you have the oppurtunity for shorter charges if you deploy touching your board edge.

I agree that a tooled up dread coming in with a 5++ and an extra attack and S12 for two turns is something for my opponent to be worried about.

Beardedragon wrote:

 JNAProductions wrote:

Beardedragon wrote:
But i cant add a snakebites detatchment if im playing Goffs as per the rules.

You can't CHOOSE Snakebites if you have Goffs.

Mozgrod has Snakebites built in, so it's not a selection.
And 'Orrible Gits for your Grots makes them no longer count as Goffs, so Mozgrod can get his Snakebite abilities.

wait.. what? i dont think im following. You can have a goff detatchment and a snakebites detatchment with mozzie? When you make a detatchment, surely you have to pick a klan? Can a detatchment over all be klanless? So if i cant choose snakebites, because my over all klan is Goff (and im not using Ghaz who has specialist lads or is in a supreme detatchment) my klan would be goff?

orrible gitz isnt goffs, and mozzie isnt either. but the klan would be? is that still allowed?

You don't chose a clan for a detachment, you the detachment's clan is decided by the keywords of the units in that detachment.
Nothing prevents you from having a goff and a snakebite detachment, the rule only limits how you replace keywords. Neither Mozrog nor 'orrible gits (or any of the other specialist mobs) have any keywords to replace.

To put simply what I was saying before…
Mozgrod and a grot unit in a patrol detachment is 2cp

Getting a second warlord in a patrol detachment is going to cost you 2cp anyway and even more cp for relic/warlord trait.

So the benefit to taking mozgrod is you get a second cheaper warlord that is almost as good as the ard as nails/mantle beastboss…

But I’m still kinda partial to ghaz (and makari).. but mozgrod does have a place competitively as your second beastboss on squig. I guess technically you can play hero hammer with all 3 but that eats a lot of points needed for your army.

My main issue with mozgrod though is snakebite transhuman is useless when your t7 and snakebite warlord trait is unreliable it should be 2+.

CaptainO wrote:

 Afrodactyl wrote:
Having jigged my list about again, I can safely say that so far I'm really enjoying a unit of three all-klaw dreads and tellyporting them in.

They do a really nice amount of damage if at least two make their charges, especially in a Waaagh turn, and 24 T7 3+ wounds is nothing to sniff at in terms of durability.

I've not had many games with them, but so far they're performing really well. My whole army (sans Mek Gun) being on top of the opponent and all the objectives by the end of my second movement phase at the absolute latest is really nice.

Do you not find it incredibly hard to drop 3 large base within 6" of each other and with all 3 within 9" of the enemy. It may be better to just put all 3 into reserve as separate units. Its the same cost, they don't have to deploy near each other and you have the oppurtunity for shorter charges if you deploy touching your board edge.

I agree that a tooled up dread coming in with a 5++ and an extra attack and S12 for two turns is something for my opponent to be worried about.

It can be a bit of a squeeze, but so far I've gotten away with it. It could definitely be a problem down the line though. The other deployment methods are very much on the cards though.

Does tellyporta work on turn 1?

 Sazzlefrats wrote:
Does tellyporta work on turn 1?

Check your mission pack.

But generally speaking, no.

 Sazzlefrats wrote:
Does tellyporta work on turn 1?

Only if the mission specifies you can deep strike turn one.

gungo wrote:
To put simply what I was saying before…
Mozgrod and a grot unit in a patrol detachment is 2cp

Getting a second warlord in a patrol detachment is going to cost you 2cp anyway and even more cp for relic/warlord trait.

So the benefit to taking mozgrod is you get a second cheaper warlord that is almost as good as the ard as nails/mantle beastboss…

But I’m still kinda partial to ghaz (and makari).. but mozgrod does have a place competitively as your second beastboss on squig. I guess technically you can play hero hammer with all 3 but that eats a lot of points needed for your army.

My main issue with mozgrod though is snakebite transhuman is useless when your t7 and snakebite warlord trait is unreliable it should be 2+.

If we put mozzy into that detachment we still wouldn't be able to make that detachment a snakebite detachment right?(therefore getting the snakebites +1 to wound for a squig charging) as we can no longer mix and match keywords.

Are we sure that we can take one goff detachment and one "unaffiliated" detachment?

CaptainO wrote:

gungo wrote:
To put simply what I was saying before…
Mozgrod and a grot unit in a patrol detachment is 2cp

Getting a second warlord in a patrol detachment is going to cost you 2cp anyway and even more cp for relic/warlord trait.

So the benefit to taking mozgrod is you get a second cheaper warlord that is almost as good as the ard as nails/mantle beastboss…

But I’m still kinda partial to ghaz (and makari).. but mozgrod does have a place competitively as your second beastboss on squig. I guess technically you can play hero hammer with all 3 but that eats a lot of points needed for your army.

My main issue with mozgrod though is snakebite transhuman is useless when your t7 and snakebite warlord trait is unreliable it should be 2+.

If we put mozzy into that detachment we still wouldn't be able to make that detachment a snakebite detachment right?(therefore getting the snakebites +1 to wound for a squig charging) as we can no longer mix and match keywords.

Are we sure that we can take one goff detachment and one "unaffiliated" detachment?

You don't DECLARE a detachment Goffs or Snakebites.

It is by virtue of the keywords of the units within it. So, a detachment of Mozzgrod (Snakebites) and some 'Orrible GIts Grots (doesn't stop anyone else from getting a clan) nets you the Snakebites Bonuses.

That is correct. After having looked it up, you definitely can have a patrol with mozzie and orrible gitz grots, and a completely different Goff detatchment full of.. well Goff dudes.

Took me a little while to find though.

if you mean having multiple detachments of different klans breaks things, thats not in our rules.
Necrons dont lose dynasties when they do that, they lose protocols specifically.
Marines dont lose tactics when they do that, they lose Doctrines.

Orks dont have a 2nd layer of rules to get stripped and the Kulture rule itself doesnt have that clause either. Orks are probably the only one that both can and want to run multiple detachments with different kultures.

If you are playing a tournament pack, you still have to use the same keyword for all instances of <clan> though. Additional clans are only possible through named characters.

 Jidmah wrote:
If you are playing a tournament pack, you still have to use the same keyword for all instances of <clan> though. Additional clans are only possible through named characters.

This…
I mean mozgrod isn’t bad but he’s really only useful as a second beastboss.. for those people who don’t want to use ghaz; This is probably a better way to go. I don’t recommend the aux support detachment over a patrol.

With the new waggh mozgrod is str 8 on the charge with +1 to wound making him a better damage dealer than the killchoppa beastboss vs t7+ targets probably not more damage then the killchoppa/BBK goff beastboss.. but he’s also less CP and slightly harder to kill.

Ey up boyz, I have a question...
Which units can be Trukk Boyz? It says you need the Boyz, Warboss or Nob (singular) keyword, but I've seen Nobz (plural) just now on a TT battle report being given the specialist mob treatment.
Can Nobz and even Meganobz be Trukk Boyz?

It doesnt matter if its singular or plural.

<Nob> and <Nobz> are the same thing.

So yes, both your nob with waaagh banner can be trukkboyz, regular boyz, Nobz, Mega Nobz, units with "Warboss" keyword as well.

OK thanks Beardedragon. Seems needlessly confusing. Ho-hum.

5 meganobz with kill saws in a trukk for a turn 1 waaargh it is then

Incidentally, I am using 5 ogryns with ripper guns and huge knives to 'count as' this unit at a GT, 'cos old skool blood axes. Shouldn't be a problem right? Base and model size is correct. They get the 2+ save from being double 'ard mercs, is my headcannon. This in a themed army with a lot of effort put in. Just hope I don't run into That Guy.

 PaddyMick wrote:
OK thanks Beardedragon. Seems needlessly confusing. Ho-hum.

5 meganobz with kill saws in a trukk for a turn 1 waaargh it is then

Incidentally, I am using 5 ogryns with ripper guns and huge knives to 'count as' this unit at a GT, 'cos old skool blood axes. Shouldn't be a problem right? Base and model size is correct. They get the 2+ save from being double 'ard mercs, is my headcannon. This in a themed army with a lot of effort put in. Just hope I don't run into That Guy.

i guess that depends. Does your ogryns look like orks? Because usually one just sends a picture to the TO before the tournament and ask if ones kit bashes/proxies are okay. if he says "Go for it" no player can complain. If you dont do that before hand you are kind of gambling a bit.

I have minor kit bashes that i dont send pictures of to TOs because it very closely resembles the actual unit, like my kit bashed big mek with KFF, one of my Wazboms and my Kill rig towed by a carnifex. But i also have a very different Grot Mega tank that i would check in with the TO before hand.

No they look nothing like Meganobz, it's just the only datasheet that kinda fits. If I email the TO I reckon his response in so many words might be 'well that army is cool, nice idea, but I feel like I have to say no, to cover myself, hope you understand'. So it's a gamble, but worst that can happen is I can't field the unit and play 175 pts down.

Carnifex towing a kill rig sounds awesome mate! I actually went and checked your gallery but couldn't see it. Please upload a pic I'm planning on a showcase thead when I get can get some decent photos. Got some GSC and admech vehicles orked up, plus a ton of ancient lead.

 PaddyMick wrote:
No they look nothing like Meganobz, it's just the only datasheet that kinda fits. If I email the TO I reckon his response in so many words might be 'well that army is cool, nice idea, but I feel like I have to say no, to cover myself, hope you understand'. So it's a gamble, but worst that can happen is I can't field the unit and play 175 pts down.

Carnifex towing a kill rig sounds awesome mate! I actually went and checked your gallery but couldn't see it. Please upload a pic I'm planning on a showcase thead when I get can get some decent photos. Got some GSC and admech vehicles orked up, plus a ton of ancient lead.

its not a gamble asking the TO before hand. Its a gamble to NOT ask the TO before hand. especially if your models look nothing like orks at all. The TO has the right to say that you cant paticipate with models that dont get accepted by the TO. effectively if your entire army is made that way, you could essentially be told you cant play.

And yea, my gallery hasnt been updated in at least a year. And my phone takes absolute trash pictures but sure i can upload it later

But really. Dont show up to a GT with orks that dont look like orks without checking the TO. In worst case scenario you wont be able to play with the models not accepted by the TO. and that would really suck. I have never not been accepted by the TO, but i also dont have anything that looks radically different. I have 2 Grot mega tanks that i bought from Gear Gutz Mek Shop, but they still resemble Grot mega tanks and even have grots riding them. But even so, i still checked in with my TO before hand.

But im curious. You have orks that dont look like orks? Im not sure how that works

Well ogryn models that counts as mega nobz. Ogryns don't look all that much like orks.

Yeah def check in advance.

If they are clearly converted odds are better it's ok. If it's stock ogryn models odds go toward "no".

 PaddyMick wrote:
No they look nothing like Meganobz, it's just the only datasheet that kinda fits. If I email the TO I reckon his response in so many words might be 'well that army is cool, nice idea, but I feel like I have to say no, to cover myself, hope you understand'. So it's a gamble, but worst that can happen is I can't field the unit and play 175 pts down.

So you're willing to risk discovering on the spot that you have to play 175 pts down rather than find out ahead of time one way or another.

Forgive me for being blunt, but that's a stupid approach.

Just contact the TO & find out.

He's basically gambling to is less inclined to ban on the spot unit. Yea risky.

Asking ahead could give option to adjust list at least.

Well ok, maybe I'm thinking about it wrong. I just didn't want to put the TO in the position where he has to say no, when 99% of opponents are gonna say it's fine. The models adhere to the rule of cool (imho). TO would rightly err on the side of caution. By the way i'm willing to change my mind, it's why i'm asking - and sorry for derailing. Basic tactics question - i've had one game with orks since 2nd ed - is there ever a good situation NOT to T1 waaaargh?

Edit: having given it some thought, counting ogryns as meganobz probably ain't the best idea, and i thought it was my only option to play with the models... until I realised they are a perfect fit for Flash Gitz (mercenaries with s5 t5, big base, big guns). Reckon these aint the most competative unit - the bs4+ is nice but the guns being heavy and only 24'' range is a pain; shoot twice is too expensive for 5 models most of the time. Question on the ammo runt - the whole unit re-rolls hits right? it say 'bearer' and the unit buys it, not an individual model. Any other buffs I could give them?

 Afrodactyl wrote:
I'll completely agree with you about the Smashas, they definitely either need to charge in only against things they can kill with the MWs, or charge in to tip some Squighogs or a Squigboss over that kill threshold. If I had my way I'd also knock them down to 55/60 points.

So the Burna Wagon was pretty lackluster for you? I've generally found mine to pull it's weight. Admittedly sometimes that is because it draws enough threat and gets shot to bits, bit I've yet to be properly disappointed with how it performed. Would you drop it entirely from your list in the future?

:EDIT:

Thinking out loud; any viability in tellyporting three all klaw dreads in a Goff rush list these days?

So with Smasha Squigs, I think a generic 5+ invuln would help their durability and then just give them a 5pt price cut AND the option of taking a Powerklaw for 5pts, bringing them back to where they are right now. They just don't dish out enough dmg and realistically they hand your opponent an easy secondary.

Burna Wagon...Its just bad. The wagon itself is over priced since it literally does NOTHING. The wagon itself needs some kind of offensive power because 6 attacks isn't enough. The Burna's inside were lackluster at best. I wanted to try them as Zzapkrumpaz so I paid extra points to make them do Mortal wounds on 6s to wound. Here is the problem though, I had 10 of them (2 spanners and 8 Burnas) They only get 2 attacks, 3 on a WAAAGH. Even with Exploding 6s and a weirdboy bumping them to 4 attacks each (Warpath if works out to 40 attacks, 33 hits, and here is the problem, 5.5 Mortal wounds. Sounds great right? well that is under optimal circumstances and realistically it doesn't happen often. Not to mention I ran into multiple games where I was -1 to hit and multiple games where buffing with warpath wasn't possible. And once they disembark...they are dead the next turn in every single game.

Like I said, I think I would rather drop the burnas and the Wagon for another Killrig and some Beastsnagga boyz. The added threat of a well places Frazzle and auto-hitting D3 lascannon is just more of a thread in my opinion, yeah you lose anti-infantry but....You don't need it.

LeRufus wrote:
Quick question / poll:

Beastboss on Squig (mantle+Ard as Nails) or Mozrog?

Thanks!

That is how I ran my Beastboss in the GT. He is just ridiculously durable for the price, and sitting him on an objective scoring 2VP a turn is just great especially since you can always run him forward to kill a squad or dmg a vehicle and snag another 2VP. I rarely had a game where I was missing VPs by having him be a cavalry TANK! Mozrog on the other hand...Kulture locked and realistically not worth the price.

Beardedragon wrote:
Has anyone toyed with bringing Mozrog as an auxillary by paying 1CP and having him clanless in maybe a Goff army?

Because hes not inherently bad on his own.

As I said....not worth it. He doesn't get any benefits really from being snakebite. GW really needs to rethink the whole S7 Transhuman for Orkz because its Fething useless in 90% of the games.

I’d say s8 and below would be a useful transhuman ability across the board…
There is very few str9+ weapons and the benefit to str9+ is negligible enough that capping transhuman abilities to str8 and below would give str9+ wpns a small niche but for orks in general there is a lot of str8 wpns in game that makes the ork toughness 5-7 units actually gain a transhuman benefit if it was capped at str8 and below.

That would bump it to usable for sure, as really the only S6/7 attacks i come across are either melee focused but not hyper-elitist units or the random medium gun that a lot of monsters/vehicles have, but isnt the main reason you bring the thing.
Autocannons are pretty much taboo these days, nobody runs them. They either run the next tier lower which is the S5 4-6 shot gun, or pay premium for lascannons/plasma.

All my marine friends were freaking out when they first found out about snakebites and every single one of them i counted 10-15 shots across a 2000k army that actually gave a crap. Either you already didnt wound me very well, or exceeded S7.

I'd be fine with it being so situational if it wasnt the "main perk" of being a snakebite. If that other perk wasnt locked to Squig units i dont think we'd be saying snakebite sucks lol

Thats not the only thing wrong with snakebites. The fact that Rigs dont have squig keyword is another issue.

Hell even from a marketing point of view, it makes no sense that the Rigs gain literally zero benefits from being in a snakebites detatchment, when beasts nagga models were marketed as being good with snakebites. And then you have the Rigs, who gain no +1 to wound for lack of squig keyword (despite clearly being towed by a squig) and having toughness 8 means the soft transhuman does nothing at all.

Even changing that to str 8 and below instead would also have minimal meaning to a rig. though ofc it would have a much better impact for the the rest of the army.

Yeah i was positive the killrig would get faqd to have the squig keyword but welp here we are no such faq yet.
Other than blood angels with 2x str weapons i cant even think of any S8 attacks with +1 the wound that S8 or less transhuman would affect either. Theres probably various spells or something but not that im able to think of off hand.
But yeah youre right, rigs literally gain nothing from snakebite. Thats funny...
And of course, i believe the math came out to Goffs being almost exactly as awesome for squig mounted gits as snakebites, and of course goff works on everything with a fist, even the driver of a lowly Trukk lol

Sadly enough, the Snakebitez transhuman ability would really benefit grots the most if they were able to actually use klan traits. It is kinda damning that GW somehow gave Snakebitez a rule that is arguably worse than the 6+ FNP that they had before given how situational the baby transhuman they have is.

Snakebitez really should have been something like +1T for Infantry, Bikerz and Squig Units, with the added change that the +1 to wound also applied to Kill Rigs. That or something like no rerolls to wounds similar to how Iron Warriors or LoV are.

I think GW struggles on this part because they usually fall back on invulns or armour saves to make other subfactions tougher, but since Orks generally lack good armour and invulns are largely limited to characters or the KFF (and now WAAAGH!), GW kinda just throws their hands up and gives us something that doesn't actually reflect Snakebitez being tough as old boots.

Reckon you got a pint there Grimskul.
Now there's a space dorf sub-faction that gets +1 toughness across the board....



oh an the no rr to wound is built in too.