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I had a unit of Burna boyz get assaulted the other day by some Grey Hunters. We made the assumption that if a unit of Burna boyz gets charged they all can overwatch D3 hits. We also made the assumption that since the rule for a Burna states that a it's a power weapon if it didn't fire in the shooting phase that during that assault they are still power weapons. That sound correct?

They are only used as power weapons *in assault*. Not having the rulebook, I don't know if overwatch actions are strictly part of the assault phase.

If yes, then they are power weapons. If no, then not.

Well, Overwatch happens in the Assault phase, so that sounds about right - however, I'd also check the Ork FAQ and make sure GW didn't already make a ruling on this.

There is no ruling on it, so for now its totally legal to fire overwatch shots and still use the burnas some kind of power weapon (most likely as 'unusual power weapons').

But this seems like the kind of thing that if GW does get around to answering they'll remove that loophole so I personally wouldn't plan on it being around forever until you see an affirmative ruling by them.

No changes on the FAQ for orks, and since the burnas are template weapons they do D3 shots on overwatch, and will proceed as power weapons that assault as well.

Seems like burna boyz are looting the purifier's power.

Ork Codex, page 45: 'A Burna may be used in the Shooting Phase with the profile below, or as a power weapon in an assault, but not both in the same turn.'

Ghenghis Jon wrote:The Codex is quite clear on the subject: pg 45: 'A Burna may be used in the Shooting Phase with the profile below, or as a power weapon in an assault, but not both in the same turn.'

NOT BOTH IN THE SAME (player) TURN

Must say, this is how I understand it. They cannot be both in the same turn.

Ghenghis Jon wrote:The Codex is quite clear on the subject: pg 45: 'A Burna may be used in the Shooting Phase with the profile below, or as a power weapon in an assault, but not both in the same turn.'

NOT BOTH IN THE SAME (player) TURN

However, they have not been used as a flamer in the shooting phase, nor in this assault phase. They are, instead, "hitting" the charging units with D3 hits each, during the assault phase, in which their weapons count as power weapons.

overwatch isn't in the shooting phase, and template weapons are specifically d3 auto hits. on that note, is this like lootas you only roll 1 d3 for the squad, not a separate d3 for each fig?

Finally, when it throws in overwatch it's it's gun profile, since power weapons are only ccw, so you still only get armor saves vs ap4 in overwatch then ap3 in the following assault.

Burnaz are AP5. You're thinking of skorchas.

Overwatch may not be in the shooting phase, but if you use them to Overwatch then use them as power weapons then you have used them as both in the same turn, which breaks the burna rule.

Ghenghis Jon wrote:The Codex is quite clear on the subject: pg 45: 'A Burna may be used in the Shooting Phase with the profile below, or as a power weapon in an assault, but not both in the same turn.'

NOT BOTH IN THE SAME (player) TURN

Hmm, Overwatch doesn't happen in the Shooting Phase, so I guess they can't ever overwatch anyway?

That's a good point, the burna rule doesn't allow it to be used as template weapon in the assault phase, only in the shooting phase.

comment retracted. Slinky makes a good point.

[EDITED THIS NONSENSE OUT OF EXISTENCE]

So what your suggesting is that burnas need to make a calculated decision...either overwatch fire before and do normal strength attacks in the phase or ignore overwatch, run in and power weapon attack.

grendel083 wrote:Overwatch may not be in the shooting phase, but if you use them to Overwatch then use them as power weapons then you have used them as both in the same turn, which breaks the burna rule.

I can see this

Slinky wrote:Hmm, Overwatch doesn't happen in the Shooting Phase, so I guess they can't ever overwatch anyway?

Interesting point also



So are majority thinking we can either use them for overwatch or use them as power weapons in the assault phase? I would think RAI would make that the case.

grendel083 wrote:That's a good point, the burna rule doesn't allow it to be used as template weapon in the assault phase, only in the shooting phase.

But there isn't a template weapon out there that can be fired in the assault phase. Other than in overwatch

drorain wrote:

grendel083 wrote:That's a good point, the burna rule doesn't allow it to be used as template weapon in the assault phase, only in the shooting phase.

But there isn't a template weapon out there that can be fired in the assault phase. Other than in overwatch

True, but the point being the burna rules say it can be used as a template weapon in the shooting phase. Other template weapons are template weapons in every phase, you just can't normally use them.

[EDITED THIS NONSENSE OUT OF EXISTENCE]

Ghenghis Jon wrote:

Slinky wrote:Hmm, Overwatch doesn't happen in the Shooting Phase, so I guess they can't ever overwatch anyway?

Permissive rule set. Codex allows Burnas to either: be fired as a Template weapon in the Shooting phase OR be used as a Power weapon in assaults, but not in the same turn. Rulebook gives Template weapons Overwatch, which allows them to be used like a Template weapon in the ASSAULT PHASE. The Codes rule does not nullify the Rulebook because the only restriction stated is to using Burnas as Template weapons in the two different PHASES, not the same phase.

The restriction is not using them as template and power weapon in the same turn.
The rule book allows template weapons to be used in the assault phase, there is then an argument if the burna rules allow it to be a template weapon in the assault phase.

grendel083 wrote:The restriction is not using them as template and power weapon in the same turn.
The rule book allows template weapons to be used in the assault phase, there is then an argument if the burna rules allow it to be a template weapon in the assault phase.

You are right. The Codex explicitly states that Burnas may be used in the Shooting phase only with the profile below. Burnas would have no Template profile in the Assault phase in which Overwatch takes place. Lame.

pg 45: 'A Burna may be used in the Shooting Phase with the profile below, or as a power weapon in an assault, but not both in the same turn.'

Its very simple. During the shooting phase they don't have a power weapon EVER. And during the assault phase they don't have a template weapon EVER. Everyone is getting hung up on the "choose one or the other per turn" That has nothing to do with it. According to codex this weapon is very specific things at very specific times.

It looks like burnas could lose their template profile in the assault phase.

makes sense, I'll go with that reasoning I think, until otherwise noted in errata. Now combi skorcha on nobz, that is something to look at.

Seems to me that the point is that you can not shoot and use the weapon in hand to hand in the same turn.

Either you use the template profile for overwatch and no powerweapon goodness in the assault phace

or

Not using the burnas for overwatch (other weapons could still be used) and take advantage of the burnas power weapon profile.

dionysus wrote:pg 45: 'A Burna may be used in the Shooting Phase with the profile below, or as a power weapon in an assault, but not both in the same turn.'

The Ork rule describes using it in the shooting phase and the assault phase of the same player turn. That is not when Overwatch is used. It is used on the Enemy's turn. Furthermore, Overwatch is a special permission rule. It's done and resolved in the enemy Assault phase. It enables a model to use "shooting phase weapons" in the Assault phase, with various restrictions, such as limited hits, BS1, no blast, etc...

(pg. 21) Resolve Overwatch
"...that unit can immediately fire Overwatch at the would-be attacker..."

"An Overwatch attack is resolved like a normal shooting attack (albeit one resolved in the enemy's Assault phase) and uses all the normal rules for range, line of sight, cover saves and so on..."

+ + +

My reading is that since a burna can fire as a flame template in shooting, it would get D3 in Overwatch. Overwatch is permitting all models a special kind of attack, using weapons they have. Overwatch is a special permission rule used in the enemy assault phase, but leveraging shooting phase weapons. It is not a normal shooting attack. It has special rules and restrictions, but it does leverage those weapons. Overwatch happens in the enemy Assault phase. Burna can be a power weapon in the assault phase if it was not used as a shooting weapon in the same player turn's Shooting phase. Overwatch, a special rule, does not happen in the Shooting Phase.

For what it's worth, I say, you can use it on Overwatch in the enemy turn, and since you didn't fire it in the enemy Shooting phase, you can also use it as a power weapon.

Cheers,

I dont think you have the option to use burnas any other way but as a power weapon. I dont think you can use it as a template weapon in the assault phase.

Damn Tactica there you go and change my mind again

Tactica wrote: I say, you can use it on Overwatch in the enemy turn, and since you didn't fire it in the enemy Shooting phase, you can also use it as a power weapon.

So you are allowing a burna to fire in the assault phase, even though the Burna rules say they are used in the shooting phase with the profile below. you say Overwatch overrules this.

But how are you getting around the "but not both in the same turn." part of it?

if you are going to override the restriction on shooting in the assault phase, you have to include the restriction about not being used for both in the same turn.