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Can a shooting attack that automatically hits (not blast or template), like Psychic Witchfire that 'Automatically hits a target within X inches', target zooming flyers or swooping FMCs?

Namely Tyranit Hive Tyrant powers say shooting attach that automatically hits a/all non-vehicle enemies, and Eldrads Mind War says in lieu of shooting, choose an unegaged target within range ... I am sure there are many others.

I would say yes, its still a shooting attack.

Mind War doesn't work on vehicles does it?



Flyers can only be hit with Snap Shots. Snap Shots are normal shots but they reduce your BS to one.

Some Powers say they automatically hit. Sure, I made a Snap Shot with this Psychic Power, but it automatically hits. I mean I could roll, but no matter what I roll the result will always be a hit.

I am leaning toward yes they can on your explaination that my BS is 1, I can still shoot, it just automatically hits.

Just looking at rules for SnapShots stating anything that doesn't use BS to hit cannot be snapShotted and rules for flyers stating anything wishing to shot them must do so only firing snap shots.

The real question becomes, then, (to open the floodgates) does a shooting attack that automatically hits "Not use BS to hit"?

No, Mind War cannot target vehicles, however Flying Monstrous Creatures whom are swooping have the same 'Snap Shot Only' rule and Mind War can target them.

Yeah, Mind War would work on a FMC.

Ork weirdboy powers auto hit that shoot, the only different is that the blast power can't be used against air, so his auto-hitting 36 inch melta gun is currently king of anti-air, provided:

you pass your psyckic test,
roll a 3 or on your re-roll get a 3,
then your opponent doesn't roll a 6 for deny the witch,
followed by doesn't pass his jink save

Yay, and ork players thought landraiders were tough.

Thats ok, Dakkajets are probably the best anti-air out there besides the Stormraven.

Possible counter point. Things that don't rely on your BS to hit can't be Snap Fired, and you can only resolve Snap Fire against flyers absent Skyfire.

EDIT: Missed that is was already mentioned. I'm pretty sure an Auto-hit won't work, but can't say either way.

The Ork power works because its a PSA, which normally needs to hit. But has specific exemption from doing so.

Jaws of the World Wolf is also a PSA with a specific exception regarding rolling to hit. I'm pretty sure no one would let that hit a flyer. Being a PSA that doesn't roll a hit is pretty much the posterchild for weapons that don't use BS.

Zzap (the other two can't hit fliers anyways) does not use an ork's BS. Thus it can not be snap-fired.

How about the Eldar Vibro Cannon? It doesnt' target anything - it just draws a line and any vehicles under the line are take a glancing hit.

It actually rolls to hit, so technically it probably would. But it would need to roll to hit at BS1 to hit a flyer.

Depending on interpretation it may run afoul of the "No templates/Blasts" stipulation. It probably causes less problems if the "Draw a Line" powers are treated as templates.

Actually, that is an interesting question (Vibro Cannon) All you do is roll to hit (no target or nothing) and if successful, all units under a 36" straight line suffers hits at a strength and AP.

I wouldn't play this way (and I do love my Vibro Cannons) but I can see RAW hitting Flyers even if you roll a 3 or 4+ (depending o whose firing).

Nah, it won't hit the flyers on a 3/4+. Like I said, against Flyers it has to be resolved as a Snap Shot, so at BS1. If you rolled to hit against your normal BS, you can't then hit the Flyers as you didn't Snap Shot it. If you were to roll to hit at BS1, then maybe you could get away with hitting everything including Flyers under the line.

The question is: can you snapshot Vibro Cannon?

RE: Jaws and such. Since they don't roll to hit, you can't Snapshot and can't hit flyers. Plus, if Jaws can't hit jump infantry, I don't see how it can hit flyers.

But that's only if you are shooting at (read targeting) a Flyer.

Edit: Can Jaws even affect vehicles?

Happyjew wrote:But that's only if you are shooting at (read targeting) a Flyer.

Edit: Can Jaws even affect vehicles?

No. It can't affect jump infantry either - and I'd bet the FAQ updated it to say no FMCs either.

rigeld2 wrote:No. It can't affect jump infantry either - and I'd bet the FAQ updated it to say no FMCs either.

Nope, FMC's are still affected.

... That's slowed. "you over there - you just jump over the ground. You're safe. Your buddy that's flying through the air with the greatest of ease somehow gets sucked down though. "

I've always thought it silly that anything that is not Jump Infantry but moves as Jump Infantry was affected. However if Jaws cannot be Snap fired it cannot affect FMC.

Sure it can. Fire it at that Warrior unit over there. The line is drawn through the FMC. Oops.

No, it's not that only Snap Fire can be fired at flyers, it's that only Snap Fire can be resolved against flyers. So if you're resolving a hit, and it wasn't a Snap Fire hit, you're doing it wrong.

Where is it stated that JotWW doesn't affect Jump Infantry?

undertow wrote:Where is it stated that JotWW doesn't affect Jump Infantry?

... In the ability. Page 37 of Codex: Space Wolves lists the unit types it affects. Jump Infantry isn't listed.

Perhaps I just missed it, but... what about the Doom Scythe's Death Ray?

If a doom scythe chooses to Skyfire for the round, then all weapons that turn gain Skyfire (no more snap shots).

Then the Death Ray (which is an auto-hit weapon) has skyfire and can shoot other fliers... right?

So, does that increase the "OMG, Crons are so OP" factor? Or am I miss reading/remembering?

for what its worth here was the results of another topic on 6th edition about something that auto hits namely a bomb squig for orks

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/459012.page

though note it hits because it decidedly is not a shooting attack it is an undefined attack as neither shooting or assaulting done in the shooting phase and instead a wargear ability but i'd say it works for any wargear that doesn't require "shooting" ... physic powers though can get complicated if they are a physic shooting attack

if it does not use a BS to hit or it has special rules it can not snap fire. so no auto hits.

Unless you have an auto hit weapon that has skyfire (and therefore doesn't need to snap fire).

rigeld2 wrote:

undertow wrote:Where is it stated that JotWW doesn't affect Jump Infantry?

... In the ability. Page 37 of Codex: Space Wolves lists the unit types it affects. Jump Infantry isn't listed.

Then why would anyone think that Flying Monstrous Creatures are affected? It's a new type of unit, and it's not explicitly listed. It seems to me that the whole 'can you hit it with snap fire' debate is irrelevant. The ability doesn't list Flying MCs as a being affected, and there is no FAQ adding Flying MCs to the ability.

QED

undertow wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:

undertow wrote:Where is it stated that JotWW doesn't affect Jump Infantry?

... In the ability. Page 37 of Codex: Space Wolves lists the unit types it affects. Jump Infantry isn't listed.

Then why would anyone think that Flying Monstrous Creatures are affected? It's a new type of unit, and it's not explicitly listed. It seems to me that the whole 'can you hit it with snap fire' debate is irrelevant. The ability doesn't list Flying MCs as a being affected, and there is no FAQ adding Flying MCs to the ability.

QED

There are 2 possibilities:
A) JOTWW cannot be Snap-fired and thus cannot hit FMC
B) JOTWW can affect FMC because, they are not listed as being immune on the codex, and the FAQ/Errata/Amendments did not change this.