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http://www.frontlinegaming.org/2012/07/08/video-battle-report-igsm-vs-eldardeldar-1500pts/

Follow the link to see some of the crazy combos we're pulling out of this book, and this is only the tip of the iceberg!

What kind of crazy combos are you guys finding? We have found some absurd stuff.

Reece,

You were pointing out how crazy stupid the 2+ re-rollable ICs in the front of a deathstar unit were, then you went ahead and proved why they're not the be all and end all, because Barrage weapons, for example, can still snipe out important models in the unit. Also, any character models that have ranged shooting (like a Scout Sergeant firing an emplaced weapon, for example) could also snipe models out of that unit if he rolls a 6 to hit.

The other thing I'd say is that you pointed out how difficult it can be to get around the side of the Archon Deathstar, but maybe the whole point is that if most of your army is put into a big slow-moving Deathstar of your own, you've already crippled your ability to get flanking shots on targets that need to be flanked. Say you had regular 'ole Valkyries in your army firing Missile Pods, or even a Leman Russ on the opposite flank firing across the table, then you WOULD be able to get those types of shots. The point being that when you put all of your power into a single Deathstar then it also becomes very easy to keep that unit's firing going onto stuff that is optimal for your opponent.

Also, when it comes to Gun Emplacements, reading the rules I think it would have to fire at the same target as the rest of the Scout squad (at least that's how it looks to me).

Finally, with Barrage weapons, were you playing it right that it scatters the full 2D6" on a 'miss' but still scatters 2D6"-BS of the firer on a 'hit'?


Anyway, great report and I do agree with you about how slow and stupid the wound allocation rules are.

There's no way I'd even consider playing in a tournament that has games above 1,500 points for a while because of exactly that.

Hey Yak,

Hmmm, in the rule it states that a barrage weapon does not subtract the BS unless a hit is rolled in which case it scatters the full distance.

Wow, that is incredibly poorly worded, even for GW.

And the stupid picture confuses it even more!

Nope, we played it wrong, thanks for pointing that out. That is a big game changer.

Well, that certainly makes barrage sniping more difficult.

However, had Frankie been in cover, EVERYONE would have had rerollable 2+ cover saves (shrouding and stealth), I wouldn't have hit the Shadowseer and would have done far less damage the whole game. Even with it as it was, he failed 3, 4+ saves. The odds are not good.

I agree with you on Deathstars, they are a gimmick. You can either play around it (in which case you win) or you can't (in which case you lose). We did this as much to show the crazy new rules as anything else.

Yeah, Wound Allocation is so poorly conceived that it hurts me to think this was what they went with. The rule in the leaked PDF was SOOOOOOOOO much better. Fast, elegant and simple.

I am glad you liked the report, and please point out any of those other rules issues you see, we're trying to upload this info ASAP so we can get some rough tournament guidelines hammered out for the events we have coming up.

Wow! That was a wacky battle you and Frankie had. Re-rollable 2++ from Eldrad on Archon is pretty OP. Wound allocation is silly in this edition. Barrage weapons used to snipe is an interesting tactic.

Thanks for sharing!

Would that fortune on the archons even work? With it specifically referencing Eldar units and all, it's a touch call. I mean, they are technically the same fluff wise, but fluff doesn't mean it happens in the rules.

Besides that, still a completely wacky game. I'm glad none of our 6th edition tests have been this different!

yakface wrote:
Finally, with Barrage weapons, were you playing it right that it scatters the full 2D6" on a 'miss' but still scatters 2D6"-BS of the firer on a 'hit'?

How do you figure it scatters on a hit? I read that it scatters full distance if it scatters, but it doesn't say that a hit is not a hit.

Edit: The diagram below says that "the original marker scores a hit and does not scatter", so I believe you are wrong here (thankfully, or else barrage would be useless)

I thought fortune could only be cast on Eldar units?.

Illumini wrote:

yakface wrote:
Finally, with Barrage weapons, were you playing it right that it scatters the full 2D6" on a 'miss' but still scatters 2D6"-BS of the firer on a 'hit'?

How do you figure it scatters on a hit? I read that it scatters full distance if it scatters, but it doesn't say that a hit is not a hit.

Edit: The diagram below says that "the original marker scores a hit and does not scatter", so I believe you are wrong here (thankfully, or else barrage would be useless)

Yeah, reading it closely and taking into account the diagram explanation I think I can safely agree with you...I was definitely wrong about it...I didn't notice the sentence used a semi-colon and not a comma (which actually totally changes what the sentence says).

But I do have to say that even if the maker always scattered on a 'hit' I don't think Barrage weapons would be useless at all. Your BS would still be subtracted were that the case so the scatter could be non-existent or minimal, and if its a multiple barrage weapon any 'hit' you roll on the 2nd or 3rd blasts totally allows you to place the blast pretty much wherever you want as long as it still touches the first blast in some way, so you can totally use 2nd and 3rd blasts to snipe where you want.

But I digress, I was wrong and Barrage weapons are as snipery as you originally thought Reece!


As for casting Fortune, I agree it has to be on an Eldar (not a Dark Eldar) unit, but I just figured the Harlequins in this army were of the Eldar (not Dark Eldar) variety.

Null Zone should stop this trick cold. Just about 50/50 to get Null Zone off and you only need it to happen once.

@Yak

Yeah, well, it is really poorly worded.

Barrage sniping is back...boo. Stupid, a flipping indirect mortar. Sigh.

@Dath

2 issues, 1, runes of warding means you are more likely to fail than succeed (about 55%) and take a wound.

Second, they have a 2+ cover save they can reroll, which won't be affected by null zone.

The unit also has hit and run, so they can't be tar pitted.

The unit is crazy.

@Amanax

The Harlies were "Eldar" harlies in stead of "Dark Eldar" harlies. DE harlies would be better as they have Veil of Tears and Edlar Harlies have Stealth and Shrouding (why? I don't know).

So, you take the Eldar kind, attach the Archone and Farseer and Fortune the Harlies (the IC's become a part of the unit they join per the rules) and thus, you make the most crazy unit ever. Crazy firepower, crazy resilience, best psyker defense in the game, just brutal.

We have found even filthier combos, and will share them too so that people can plan for them (either to not use them in their groups, use them in their list or plan to counter them).

Thanks for putting up batreps like these; it's nice to see some more powerful options and hear ideas being tossed around. These kinds of batreps and discussions really help the transition to 6th.

Would you guys say that 1850 is a good compromise for new average games? Our local area seems to be split-some want 1500 while others are pushing 2k still. I am of the opinion that time/experience/familiarity with the new edition will not speed the games up to pre-6th levels (aka 2hrs for a 2k game is okay) due to the new wound allocation rules and pre-game rules (warlord, terrain, and psychic powers).

Funny game. Deathstars don't matter to me. I'd just ignore them if I can't beat them.

@Jy2

Yeah, you will be seeing a lot of these though, IMO. You need a list that can deal with this stuff.

But as you said, Jy2, just as with Draigowing, you try and avoid these units if at all possible. They can only act against a single unit at a time in most cases.

@stormcrow

As for what points? We're playing at 1500pts here for now just to get used to everything. I am 99% sure we'll continue to run our tournaments at 1750 if not lower as the game is so much slower now than it was.

2K is so crazy with the double FOC, it really, really changes things.

Time will tell, of course, but for now, we're staying small.

Glad you liked the rep!

@Thread

Also, Fearless is now conferred to a unit, hahahaha, so Vect makes that deathstar fearless on top of everything else! Doh!

Given that units can no longer hold more than one objective its certainly going to limit Deathstar units that people counted on to win games often by holding two or more objectives on their own (like Paladins with Draigo).

That is an excellent point and one we saw quickly.

And, since you can't contest objectives with vehicles anymore, it means you really need to have some units that can move onto objectives and hold them.

The thing you can do with the big Deathstars though, is to spread out over multiple objectives to deny them to your opponent.

We will try out a balanced army against a deathstar army on tape, so far in practice the deathstar army just obliterates them every time.

Interesting set up reece. I just won a local tournament with a dark eldar/eldar alliance. I used eldrad and duke to make a 20 man kabolite warrior squad own just about anything out of a vehicle.

Take Prescience which allows you to re-roll all to hits and the squad poisons on 3+. Not to mention Hallucinations from telepathy cant literally stop enemies cold. Eldrad is broken in this edition.

Where do they get a 2+ cover save? I thought in the open they get a 4+ cover save? In the open, pop Null Zone and hit them with 2 assault cannons. You should be able to instant kill the lead Archons and the Deathstar is over. You say Null Zone has a 45% chance of working, well that's a 45% chance of popping the Deathstar.

I'm not even going to get into what a Rune Priest can do to the unit. I'm not to worried about a deathstar which can fall hard to Space Wolves or vanilla Marines.

Honestly heavy flamers would rape either of your deathstars, and fliers like NS as well. I think if too super cheese armies like that get paired, then yea it will slow down to a grind because they are not balanced and do the same thing essentially… and that’s slow the game down to a crawl. Also guys, remember you can roll as many dice as the model has wounds so you could have done yarrick 6 dice at a time (three to LOS, 3 to save) then 4 then 2 after he takes damage. It really speeds it up. Same with LOS saves against his archons, you can roll as many as he has guys left in the unit and adjust as they drop. Just some tips.

Most guard lists have butt loads of HF on their chimera hulls, which would be an example of what would eat his unit. Drive up on his flanks and he is done, use tank shock to reposition his models. Honestly it isn’t as difficult as your video made it out to be. Also try wolves for your ally so you can runic staff dumb blessings

I had to laugh as well at this video, it was heavy on the complaining but to me the best part was how every time one thing was considered invincible and broken, in the next cut it was dead and what killed it was insane. It just seemed too funny to me to not be intentional. Was it? If not then that’s irony at its best.

@Tomb King

Yeah, the combos are so crazy in this edition. We're seriously blown away by it, hahaha! Sounds like you found yet another one.

@Darth Digler

2+ in cover, unit has move through cover, so they still go fast, and are crazy tough then.

I am not trying to say this unit is unbeatable at all, just that it will devastate a lot of people and more to the point we were trying to make, it will really upset a lot of folks as it is allowed in the rules.

@Red Corsair

We did complain too much in this video, you are right there. We've just been really frustrated with some of the rules and it shows. Sorry if that made it less enjoyable to watch. We were laughing our asses off most of the game though.

HF could do it, but I don't think it would be as easy as you think. The Harlies will obliterate multiple tanks in assault, and you have to get close enough to do it, which isn't that easy. It could work, of course, no doubt, I just don't think it will be as easy as you make it sound.

And yeah, it was pure irony which makes it funnier! haha.

We have just been mad about the obvious abuses in this rule set, it feels like holes were left that could have been easily fixed. I

Good battle report. Right now I'm thinking 6th edition will leave me happy to never play in another tournament again, but I do think that every crazy bad unit out there has a counter. We'll just see if there are too many counters needed for too many broken things, or if we'll just end up seeing every army crammed with flamers and heavy flamers, everyone taking pathfinders or other snipers or barrage weapons whenever possible to try to remove characters,

Wound allocation and a few other of the rules changes almost make me think that GW is trying to hurt tournaments and power gaming on purpose. They've made rules that mostly work fine if you're not trying too hard to take advantage of them, but then quickly bog down in pretty obvious situations, or become broken. Maybe I'm crazy.

Question, Did the vendetta have hover? Cause I thought flyers have to move at a minimum of 18", and can only pivot at 90 degrees.

IG and Space Marine flyers have hover, Dark Eldar have vector dancer 90-move-90, and Necrons..... well they get flyer dedicated transports.

@Lambadomy

I think you hit the nail on the head, man. This edition of the game plays out fine if you play within the spirit of the rules. If you play to maximize efficiency, then it becomes a morass of rules and complications.

@Dakkalance

Yes, it does have hover, although I am not finding where it says that right now! haha

@Living Still

Where are you seeing those rules? I know you are right, but I can't find them for the life of me right now in the FAQs or the BRB. Thanks.

Reece, check the summary in the back of the rulebook.

Do you have a page number, Yak? I feel like a dummy, but I can't find it.

Living Still wrote:IG and Space Marine flyers have hover, Dark Eldar have vector dancer 90-move-90, and Necrons..... well they get flyer dedicated transports.

Where does it say De have vector dance?



Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, Thanks reece! I may try that DE deathstar, looks pretty broken with the wound allocation

@DakkaLance

NP, yeah, it is pretty crazy. As others have pointed out, there are ways to get around it, but it is pretty OP.

Reecius wrote:@DakkaLance

NP, yeah, it is pretty crazy. As others have pointed out, there are ways to get around it, but it is pretty OP.

Hey Reece you gonna be making it out to the midwest massacre in Septermber? It is the GT here in KC. My home turf.

Yeah I remember you telling us about that at Adepticon. We would love to, but unfortunately I don't think we will make it to that or NOVA this year as we are getting ready to move to a bigger store in the next 2 months. We're stoked about that, but it means we will be flat broke for a while.

We'll for sure try and make it out next year. Vidar, on our team, said KC was a super fun city too, with a ton of cute girls which is always a plus!

You guys seemed like super cool fellas too, definitely an event that we'd like to go to.

Reecius wrote:Do you have a page number, Yak? I feel like a dummy, but I can't find it.

Pages 410-416, the unit summaries. Flyers that have hover have it noted in their profile (a capital 'H').