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So, the chaos space marine codex says that lesser daemons can deepstrike within 6" of a chaos icon, does this mean that if I ally with daemons i could effectively not roll for scatter on my bloodletter, plguebearers etc.

I'd like to hear some opinions on this.

No, "Lessor Daemon" is a specific unit name in the CSM codex.

Icons in the CSM book can only be used for terminators, obliterators and lesser demons.

If you want something that works for chaos demons, demon-ize a skyshield landing pad.

This topic comes up at least once a week, it looks like. Yes, you can, according to the Chaos Daemons codex-they can DS within 6" of an "Icon of Chaos." According to the master entry on page 81 of the CSM codex, they are collectively called "Icons of Chaos," at the top of the box. Chaos Daemons permit this. Thus, you can DS within 6". Some playgroups won't allow this, but the Daemon Codex gives it the OK. CSM FAQ could cause issues, but according to the FAQ, only "squads consisting fully of Terms/Oblits can DS within the Icon-which would disallow Lesser Daemons. This isn't the case, so that entry most likely means it prevents winged characters from DSing in while being in termie squads.

The CSM codex icons only give permission to use them to terminators, obliterators and lesser demons. Specific vs general. The icons in the chaos codex state what can use them, the ones in the CSM do the same.

3 Questions regarding CSM Icons and Deepstrike, if you please..

1) Will the new discipline version of Gate of Infinity work with Chaos Icons?

For instance, if I had Typhus with GoI, and was joined with Terminator squad 1 with an Icon of Nurgle, and wanted to Deepstrike them all to Terminator squad 2 with an Icon of Tzeentch (within 24"), would that be viable? Landing them safely within 6" of the icon, with no chance for mishap?

2) Likewise, could Typhus potentially jump between these two squads, and then even bring one squad with him to the other on a following turn?

3) Also, if someone like Ahriman has 3 Warp Charges (from being PML3), couldn't he technically use GoI 3 times in one turn (since it's a blessing and not a witchfire ability, thus not a shooting ability), moving a maximum of 72 inches? o.O

Thanks in advance

EDIT: Changed my questions to involve Terminators, instead of troops .. since troops can't arrive via icons (which I would have realized if I read this threads debate properly ;P)

EDIT (Again): Actually .. couldn't Typhus technically GoI with his squad of Plague Marines anyway (rather than Terminators), to within 6" of a unit using an Icon, since the first model deployed via this Deepstrike (being Typhus) is wearing Terminator Armor? Even though the rest are not?

The daemon codex came out after the CSM book. The Daemon Codex, coming second, gave permission to use 'Icons of Chaos'. Saying "this Icon is okay to DS on, but that one isn't" is not a proper argument. One gives permission, one does not. Since the Daemons are getting the benefit, and their book says it's okay, that should stand as such.

Proper argument? CSM icons state what can use, exactly how teleport homers and locator beacons for other codes state how they are used. If a locator beacon or teleport homer stated only x, y and z units may use them, then ONLY those units may use them.

I'm sorry, I want the trick to work as I play chaos, but the codex states otherwise.

Play in my town-it's a legal tactic because the Daemon book gives permission. The most recent codex using the item in question says it's okay, so my play area gives it the go. Of course, seeing how I was in charge of setting up tournaments in my area before I stopped, and I played Daemons, I was biased...but everyone else looked at it and agreed that the Icons work as such.

timetowaste85 wrote:This topic comes up at least once a week, it looks like. Yes, you can, according to the Chaos Daemons codex-they can DS within 6" of an "Icon of Chaos."

Incorrect. In C:CD, the "Icon of Chaos" is a specific piece of wargear that happens to share a name with the CSM. It's not a general feature of Daemon deep striking that they don't scatter when in range of an icon; instead, it's a specific effect of a single piece of wargear that CSM do not have access to. They have access to an item with a similar name, but the effects are different.

Cheexsta wrote:

timetowaste85 wrote:This topic comes up at least once a week, it looks like. Yes, you can, according to the Chaos Daemons codex-they can DS within 6" of an "Icon of Chaos."

Incorrect. In C:CD, the "Icon of Chaos" is a specific piece of wargear that happens to share a name with the CSM. It's not a general feature of Daemon deep striking that they don't scatter when in range of an icon; instead, it's a specific effect of a single piece of wargear that CSM do not have access to. They have access to an item with a similar name, but the effects are different.

At the moment I can't find my Daemon Codex, so I can't quote and refute that-but I have read the entry countless times and it says they can DS without fault within 6" of an icon of chaos. If it's called an Icon of Chaos, it counts for them, per their codex's rules. And it's not an item with a similar name, it's the same name. The exact same title of the item.

timetowaste85 wrote:At the moment I can't find my Daemon Codex, so I can't quote and refute that-but I have read the entry countless times and it says they can DS without fault within 6" of an icon of chaos. If it's called an Icon of Chaos, it counts for them, per their codex's rules. And it's not an item with a similar name, it's the same name. The exact same title of the item.

If there was a general rule for Daemons' deep striking and it said that they don't scatter if placed in range of an icon, then you'd be right. However, it is not: it is a specific function of a specific piece of wargear found within the Daemon codex. It doesn't matter how similar the names are, CSM simply can't take a piece of wargear from another book. If they could, then you'd even be able to deep strike Raptors next to a CSM icon without scatter, even though it is not on the list of allowed units in the CSM codex.

They are battle brothers so they should be able to use each others icons, however they will not count as summoned and can not charge.

Beerfiend wrote:3 Questions regarding CSM Icons and Deepstrike, if you please..

1) Will the new discipline version of Gate of Infinity work with Chaos Icons?

For instance, if I had Typhus with GoI, and was joined with Terminator squad 1 with an Icon of Nurgle, and wanted to Deepstrike them all to Terminator squad 2 with an Icon of Tzeentch (within 24"), would that be viable? Landing them safely within 6" of the icon, with no chance for mishap?

2) Likewise, could Typhus potentially jump between these two squads, and then even bring one squad with him to the other on a following turn?

3) Also, if someone like Ahriman has 3 Warp Charges (from being PML3), couldn't he technically use GoI 3 times in one turn (since it's a blessing and not a witchfire ability, thus not a shooting ability), moving a maximum of 72 inches? o.O

Thanks in advance

EDIT: Changed my questions to involve Terminators, instead of troops .. since troops can't arrive via icons (which I would have realized if I read this threads debate properly ;P)

EDIT (Again): Actually .. couldn't Typhus technically GoI with his squad of Plague Marines anyway (rather than Terminators), to within 6" of a unit using an Icon, since the first model deployed via this Deepstrike (being Typhus) is wearing Terminator Armor? Even though the rest are not?

No one has an answer to any of this? =/

Having double-checked the rules for Icons I would be inclined to say no for number 1 and 2 due to the fact when Gating you are not deploying onto the battlefield via Deep Strike. You are simply moving the unit using the deep strike rules. as for number 3, either under Psyker rules or the psychic discipline section in the rulebook specifically state you cannot attempt to cast a psychic power more than once.

timetowaste85 wrote:

Cheexsta wrote:

timetowaste85 wrote:This topic comes up at least once a week, it looks like. Yes, you can, according to the Chaos Daemons codex-they can DS within 6" of an "Icon of Chaos."

Incorrect. In C:CD, the "Icon of Chaos" is a specific piece of wargear that happens to share a name with the CSM. It's not a general feature of Daemon deep striking that they don't scatter when in range of an icon; instead, it's a specific effect of a single piece of wargear that CSM do not have access to. They have access to an item with a similar name, but the effects are different.

At the moment I can't find my Daemon Codex, so I can't quote and refute that-but I have read the entry countless times and it says they can DS without fault within 6" of an icon of chaos. If it's called an Icon of Chaos, it counts for them, per their codex's rules. And it's not an item with a similar name, it's the same name. The exact same title of the item.

Icon of CHaos /= Icon of Khorne, Nurgle, etc, nor is it equal to Personal Icon.

No permission given, unless you change the name of the wargear int he Chaos marine book.

Happyjew wrote:Having double-checked the rules for Icons I would be inclined to say no for number 1 and 2 due to the fact when Gating you are not deploying onto the battlefield via Deep Strike. You are simply moving the unit using the deep strike rules. as for number 3, either under Psyker rules or the psychic discipline section in the rulebook specifically state you cannot attempt to cast a psychic power more than once.

I apologize for reviving this old thread, but I have to be clear on this as there are several contradictions here.. I probably should have just made a new thread for this (and probably will anyway)

1) I've read many posts on the subject of Gate of Infinity (not just on this site) working with teleport homers and locator beacons, the debate was more specifically which types of units could use it, and some debate on whether it was considered "teleporting" for the use of the teleport homer or not. Whereas with icons, it bypasses the use of such a word and states that icons work with "deepstrike rules" as you said. I don't understand how this is different, if it states that "the models are removed, and then immediately arrives within 24" using deepstrike rules" ? Isn't that the exact same thing as deploying them using deepstrike rules?

2) I know for a fact that Chaos has and still is capable of casting the same abilities more than once, if the psyker has that ability (ie PML2+ is all that would be required). The only psychic abilities that cannot be used more than once in this way are shooting attacks, as a model cannot shoot more than once each turn, save Daemon Princes as they are MC who can shoot more than once. However, Gate of Infinity is a blessing, thus according to those rules, it should be useable more than once. I honestly wasn't even referring to this as the limitation for being able to do it. I was wondering if there was something else I overlooked, perhaps in Deepstrike rules themselves, but I've read over it all.

3) A further question now is .. is this how psychic abilities are handled in the BRB too? At the top of p 67 it says that "A psyker cannot attempt to manifest the same psychic power more than once each turn, even if the manifestation attempt is not successful" However, this complete contradicts what is in the CSM codex, and even the FAQs stating that this is okay. I could sware I read somewhere in the BRB saying that it was okay too, so long as it wasn't a shooting attack (ie same rule as in CSM/FAQ), but now I cannot find it.. Which is it? Are they saying that Chaos is the only army that can cast more than one blessing/conjuration/malediction at a time, but not witchfire (unless a DP)? And if this is the case, wouldn't it be true for ALL of those types, including the new disciplines?

EDIT: Ah, subsequently I did read the rule on the same psyker page stating that a psyker cannot use an ability that must be used at the start of the movement phase, after he has arrived via reserve. But again, does GoI count as arriving via reserve, or something else? If my original two questions in my previous post are wrong for the same reason, than this would mean that using GoI 3x in a row is legal, because it doesn't count as reserves..

And to reaffirm #1, even if it doesn't count as arriving via reserve, it seems to me that Icons should still be legal as well, because it doesn't mention that arriving via reserves is a requirement, and only states that it "uses deepstrike rules" which icons follow.