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Made in us
Nasty Nob on Warbike with Klaw





Nebraska, USA

Yes they do actually, and its literally the only thing Open Top DOES confer to its occupants, as everything else is explicitly denied

Open Topped says it confers any benefits to the occupants. Other than Freeboota +1, everything we have that could be transferred it goes on to say "except it doesnt" such as ignoring heavy penalties when moving.
The transport, long as it is Freeboota itself, gains +1 to hit. It then confers that to the occupants. That is the caveat though, it has to be a freeboota transport.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/10/16 16:11:25


An ork with an idea tends to end with a bang.

9000pts Big 'n Bad Orkz
4000pts Admech/Knights 
   
Made in us
Fresh-Faced New User





Doesn’t the FAQ restrict it?

Q: If a transport with the Open-topped ability (e.g. a Trukk) is within range of an aura ability, are units that are embarked upon that transport affected by that ability?
A: No.

As competitive streak gives the unit that destroyed an enemy unit a 24” aura.?

   
Made in de
Waaagh! Ork Warboss on Warbike





The battlewagon gets the +1 modifier and the open topped rule confers modifiers to the unit inside.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/10/16 16:23:44


 Daedalus81 wrote:
SemperMortis wrote:
Yes, because everyone lines up on the deployment line when facing off against orkz, especially when said orkz are fielding 3 Bonebreakers...which rely exclusively on getting into CC to inflict any kind of actual harm. All of your arguments rely upon your opponent being a brain dead muppet who just lets you maul him.


Yea...that's called board control.
 
   
Made in us
Nasty Nob on Warbike with Klaw





Nebraska, USA

You are correct, the faq restricts auras from affecting units inside.
But like i said, as long as the transport is Freeboota the bonus is transferred via Open Topped since its a modifier. Technically any non-freeboota would get it too but the Freeboota ability to go into other kulture transports doesnt work the other way around sadly.
The occupants are not receiving an aura effect, they are receiving the OpenTopped shared modifiers effect.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/10/16 16:31:30


An ork with an idea tends to end with a bang.

9000pts Big 'n Bad Orkz
4000pts Admech/Knights 
   
Made in us
Fresh-Faced New User




The ignoring heavy weapons is also conferred by the open-topped rule. Until the ork FAQ denied it.

Now why doesn’t the faq i mention deny the competitive streak aura?



Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Vineheart01 wrote:
The occupants are not receiving an aura effect, they are receiving the OpenTopped shared modifiers effect.


Clear, thanks.



Automatically Appended Next Post:
I said clear and want to agree, but by this reasoning Badrukk standing next to an open-topped unit gives effect to transport, transport gives it to passengers.

But the faq literally, with the open-topped rule mentioned, denies this:

Q: If a transport with the Open-topped ability (e.g. a Trukk) is within range of an aura ability, are units that are embarked upon that transport affected by that ability?
A: No.

If open-topped was not mentioned in the faq I would easily agree with the reasoning. But this Faq is written with open-topped specifically mentioned. In the case of open-topped, aura effects are not conferred.

So I am back to competitive streak is not conferred to passengers.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2019/10/16 16:55:51


 
   
Made in us
Nasty Nob on Warbike with Klaw





Nebraska, USA

Badrukk's aura is specifically for "Flash Gitz" not "Freeboota"
The transport is not a Flash Git so it cannot benefit from the aura, and as a result it cannot transfer it via Open Topped. And if it did then we'd be back to the argument of old talking about "well, whats a modifier then?" since GW never actually defines that. Depending on who you talk to a modifier is strictly and literally changing the die result to another result, while a reroll just rolls it again and thus does not "modify" it.
Moot discussion though since nothing we have generates that argument. Denying the Mobile Fortress bonus works because, again, its not a modifier, its a modifier ignoring rule.
Yeah its a piece of garbage rule i know lol

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/10/16 17:12:43


An ork with an idea tends to end with a bang.

9000pts Big 'n Bad Orkz
4000pts Admech/Knights 
   
Made in us
Mekboy Hammerin' Somethin'




Douglasville, GA

Open-Topped specifies that Modifiers and such that affect the Transport get transferred to the Embarked unit. So, if the Battlewagon is within 24" of the unit that procced Competitive Streak, then it would receive a +1 to hit in that phase and transfer it to the passengers as well.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Basically, when it comes to Open-Topped and "auras", you just gotta go through 2 steps. 1: is it a Restriction or Modifier? If yes, then you move to step 2. If no, then it cannot be transferred to the Embarked Unit. 2: does it apply to the Transport? If yes, then it can be transferred to the Embarked Unit. If no, it cannot.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
For example, a Banner Nob can't buff a unit inside of a Transport, because even though he's providing a Modifier, it does not apply to a transport. Alternatively, you cannot use the Showin' Off Stratagem on a Transport to allow the unit inside to fire twice, because it's not a Modifier or Restriction.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2019/10/16 17:22:45


 
   
Made in se
Krazy Grot Kutta Driva






 Vineheart01 wrote:
Theres some lengthy discussions about runtherders several pages back.

Jist of it: never, ever, EVER use runtherders.

You need 1 to cover like 2-3 30x grot squads for it to actually be worth it. And even then...just use a damn warboss.
Runtherders dont even use an elite slot so they arent even viable to fill slots up.



That is not the case of multiple 30 strong . Somebody posted the math in it and Steven Pampreen came second to a major with a runtherd, if I remember correctly
   
Made in fr
Trazyn's Museum Curator





on the forum. Obviously

 Vineheart01 wrote:

Runtherders dont even use an elite slot so they arent even viable to fill slots up.


That's not a bad thing though.
I mean, do you want your elite slots to be taken up by runtherds, instead of something like tankbustas?

I don't think Runtherds are that bad. Yes, you could use a warboss, but wouldn't you want him to be in combat, instead of babysitting grots all game? You are paying points for close combat stats, grot sitting would be a waste.
Runtherds could probably use a points reduction though.

What I have
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~1660
: LM

Westwood lives in death!
Peace through power!

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Made in fi
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 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
I mean, do you want your elite slots to be taken up by runtherds, instead of something like tankbustas?


How many elite slots you expect to use? You have minimum 6 slots to use in standard ork army if not 9.

https://middleagedstrategybattlegamers.home.blog/2019/11/16/tneva82-goblins-humans-and-elves/ <- lotr painting blog

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5150 pts
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on the forum. Obviously

tneva82 wrote:
 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
I mean, do you want your elite slots to be taken up by runtherds, instead of something like tankbustas?


How many elite slots you expect to use? You have minimum 6 slots to use in standard ork army if not 9.


I don't run brigades, so minimum 0.
I still need a lot more grots to make that cheese farm.

What I have
~4100
~1660
: LM

Westwood lives in death!
Peace through power!

A longbeard when it comes to Necrons and WHFB. Grumble Grumble

 
   
Made in fi
Decrepit Dakkanaut





 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
tneva82 wrote:
 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
I mean, do you want your elite slots to be taken up by runtherds, instead of something like tankbustas?


How many elite slots you expect to use? You have minimum 6 slots to use in standard ork army if not 9.


I don't run brigades, so minimum 0.
I still need a lot more grots to make that cheese farm.


by minimum I referred how many you have available. Minimum amount orks have for elites is basically 6(at least if we are talking about competive armies). So you have 6 slots. If runtherds were elite slot would you really be running short on slots? Elite is not strongest section for orks to begin with

https://middleagedstrategybattlegamers.home.blog/2019/11/16/tneva82-goblins-humans-and-elves/ <- lotr painting blog

12 factions for Lord of The Rings
11772 pts(along with lots of unpainted unsorted stuff)
5265 pts
5150 pts
~3200 pts Knights

 
   
Made in us
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MI

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

I don't think Runtherds are that bad. Yes, you could use a warboss, but wouldn't you want him to be in combat, instead of babysitting grots all game? You are paying points for close combat stats, grot sitting would be a waste.
Runtherds could probably use a points reduction though.

A drop to 25pts might make him worth considering.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/10/17 12:08:05


 
   
Made in gb
Mekboy Hammerin' Somethin'





UK

Noticed a lot of tourney ddes run the super shokk mek as death skulls.

Wondering what the exact formula they run is with WL traits and strats.

So can re-roll a hit, wound and dmg which is neat
WL could give a +1 to wound vs vehicles or the re-rolls 1's to wound for DS one.
Strat is re-roll ALL wound vs vehicles (2cp)

i guess this strat and +1 WL might be combined? for easy wounding stuff.

thing is you only get one re-roll to hit, with BM ye re-rolling all 1's. Guess math have been done and DS is the way to go?

This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2019/10/17 12:32:49


 
   
Made in ie
Norn Queen






Dublin, Ireland

Guys, if you make a weirdboy or bigmek your warlord and give them the WL trait of follow me ladz, can they use breaking heads on Grot units?

Dman137 wrote:
goobs is all you guys will ever be

By 1-irt: Still as long as Hissy keeps showing up this is one of the most entertaining threads ever.

"Feelin' goods, good enough". 
   
Made in fi
Decrepit Dakkanaut





 Latro_ wrote:
Noticed a lot of tourney ddes run the super shokk mek as death skulls.

Wondering what the exact formula they run is with WL traits and strats.

So can re-roll a hit, wound and dmg which is neat
WL could give a +1 to wound vs vehicles or the re-rolls 1's to wound for DS one.
Strat is +1 to wound vs vehicles

i guess this strat and +1 WL might be combined? for a +2 to wound stuff.


If you have death skull detachment to spare deathskull is best. Albeit not huge difference but still a bit. Not sure what others use but I like the +1 to wound vs vehicles to counter those low strength rolls. Wounding on 5+ minimum, 4+ often really helps.

https://middleagedstrategybattlegamers.home.blog/2019/11/16/tneva82-goblins-humans-and-elves/ <- lotr painting blog

12 factions for Lord of The Rings
11772 pts(along with lots of unpainted unsorted stuff)
5265 pts
5150 pts
~3200 pts Knights

 
   
Made in eu
Waaagh! Ork Warboss on Warbike





 Ratius wrote:
Guys, if you make a weirdboy or bigmek your warlord and give them the WL trait of follow me ladz, can they use breaking heads on Grot units?


Yes, as the gretchin are not affected by the stratagem, but by the aura that the character gained.

 Daedalus81 wrote:
SemperMortis wrote:
Yes, because everyone lines up on the deployment line when facing off against orkz, especially when said orkz are fielding 3 Bonebreakers...which rely exclusively on getting into CC to inflict any kind of actual harm. All of your arguments rely upon your opponent being a brain dead muppet who just lets you maul him.


Yea...that's called board control.
 
   
Made in ie
Norn Queen






Dublin, Ireland

Cool, thanks.

Dman137 wrote:
goobs is all you guys will ever be

By 1-irt: Still as long as Hissy keeps showing up this is one of the most entertaining threads ever.

"Feelin' goods, good enough". 
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut






I've added a runtherd when I had a small amount of points to squeeze in and a few units of grots. Never used that list, though.

Had a 1250pt game last night vs primaris ultramarines, went pretty well!

lists:
Spoiler:

Me:
SSAG Mek
Deffkilla Wartrike

3 x 10 grots

3 Meganobs
5 Tankbustas
Mad Dok Grotsnik

Deffkopta, KMB

Bonebreaka, 2 Big Shootas
Bonebreaka, 2 Big Shootas
3 Deff Dreads (1 with BS/RL, 1 with Saw/KMB, 1 with 2 KMB)

Him:
(all primaris)

Captain, powersword
2 x mini-captains (only reroll 1's to wound)
Librarian

2 units of 10 primaris with bolt rifles

6 aggressors with the umpteen-thousand-ty shots at S4 and power fists

10 dudes with plasma rifles (S8, 9 when overcharged)


The plan:
Spoiler:

2 waves of attack; Bonebreakas in first, followed by the deff dreads, all spurred on by the wartrikes aura of chargyness. Wartrike finishes off any stragglers or distant units afterwards. SSAG hunts some vehicles (good plan, that) and does what a SSAG does. Grots hang back and take objectives late in the game. Tankbustas, MANS and grotsnik are there to take over when the bonebreaka dies. Deffkopta goes for opportunities.

The Game:
Spoiler:

Orks get turn 1, and pull off a turn 1 charge on the aggressors with the meganob/tankbusta/grotsnik bonebreaka, using ramming speed, after killing 1 with shooting. SSAG kills 1 of the heavy squad off. single KMB dread manages 2 hits with it after advancing (woohoo! Dakkadakkadakka!) to kill the aggressor and wound another.
I mess combat up and get confused by the bonebreaka rules managing to simultaneously forget to add D6 attacks, and misread "Add 3 to hit rolls" as "Add 3 "to hit" rolls", meaning I rolled 3 extra attacks and hit on a 5+, neatly doing not much.
return attacks kill the bonebreaka, which explodes (yay!), killing 1 more aggressor, leaving one mini-captain on 1 wound and killing the librarian. 3 Tankbustas die to save the Meganobs. all in all, a good result!

His turn 1, heavy dudes walk to get in range (he deployed them early so I took the other flank) and between them & the troops, chip some wounds off the deff dread closest to them. Aggressors surround the MANs and take 2 wounds off of 1, then charge. They get 6 powerfist wounds, and I assume all is lost. Roll the dice, and only fail 1, and then Grotsnik saves it for them with a 6! mini-captain then kills the wounded meganob, and the 2 left kill the aggressors.

Orks Turn 2, dreads attempt a charge on the primaris marines, and only one makes it ("With me lads! lads?") and starts to tear them a new one. SSAG kills 2 more primaris heavy dudes with plasmarifles. bonebreaka moves closer and hides from the plasmashots. mini-captain is killed and MANs consolidate into cover.

Ultramarines turn 2, he moves away and shoots a deff dread to death, killing it and chipping a wound off the bonebreaka (Everything is exploding!).

Orks turn 3, deffkopta arrives on the flank and tries to get a potshot at his warlord, who is now closest. Fails. SSAG fires twice at the heavy plasmarifle dudes and kills 4 of them. Deff Dread & MANs get into CC with the other primaris marines, bonebreaka supports the dread with the first squad to supplement it's move towards the heavy plasma dudes. at the end of combat, 1 primaris marine remains in CC with the Meganobs.

His turn 3, he shoots his heavy plasma rifle guys at the bonebreaka and, with some chipping from his HQ units, drops it to 4 wounds. his primaris marine gets lunched and I consolidate towards his last bastion of hope.

My turn 3, deffkilla charges his warlord, bonebreaka charges the last 4 plasma dudes, everything else trys to get closer. Grots come out of hiding to start getting objectives. Last tankbusta finds he's not in range of anything so goes for a distant objective instead. deffkopta fails another opportunistic warlord shot. CC sees his warlord survive the wartrike and put 5 wounds on him for his troubles. the 4 primaris plasma dudes die.

marines turn 3, he puts more hurt on the wartrike with his 2 remaining characters.

Orks turn 4, deffkilla moves out of combat and SSAG fires twice, once at each character. Character 1 get 8 S9 shots, and dies. his warlord gets a whopping 3 S4 shots, which whiff! bonebreaka charges, and the captain and the bonebreaka are left with 1 wound.

Ultramarine player concedes.


Lessons Learnt:

Deff dreads, if bought in 3's are actually quite effective. The lack of a reducing profile, individual unit status and a decent save make them quite good, I've found, if they stick together.

Wartrike is a buff character, like a KFF mek. his is not to go roaring off and kill the biggest thing on the battlefield, his is to stick behind your vehicles and make them go faster. At this, he is great - thanks to him, I got a turn 1 charge, and my deff dreads threat range was increased considerably thoughout the game. they wouldn't have connected until turn 3-4 without him.

Bonebreaka is basically made to kill primaris marines, especially now that I've remembered it gets D6 extra attacks when it charges!!! it's hard to decide what to put inside, I feel grots work as it's a cheap unit to drop on an enemy objective, if you get through the enemy lines. keeps losses minimal if the bonebreaka is specifically targeted.

No idea if grotsnik is worth it as he didn't get to fight, and only made 1 FNP attempt (which passed!).


All in all, a good game!





Orks in 8th, W/D/L
7/0/3 
   
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New Iron Hands FAQ/Errata came out and basically laid the smack down on the whombo combo that was planned out from the book. Multi-damage weapons are still useful again against the Repulsor Executioners, especially now that they don't have a 5+ invuln from Feirros anymore. So Smash Gun spam and SSAG are still very viable options against them. IH are still very strong with their doctrine ability, but its not like they have an invincible castle of doom anymore.

My milkshakes bring all the boys to the yard and they're like, hurr darry darr.


My suggestion to you is to get married, if you have a good wife you'll be happy, if you have a bad wife you'll become a philosopher. 
   
Made in eu
Waaagh! Ork Warboss on Warbike





 Grimskul wrote:
New Iron Hands FAQ/Errata came out and basically laid the smack down on the whombo combo that was planned out from the book. Multi-damage weapons are still useful again against the Repulsor Executioners, especially now that they don't have a 5+ invuln from Feirros anymore. So Smash Gun spam and SSAG are still very viable options against them. IH are still very strong with their doctrine ability, but its not like they have an invincible castle of doom anymore.


TO THE GROUND!

https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/10/warhammer_40000_iron_hands_en-1.pdf

- IH KFF is now infantry only (just like Azrael)
- Iron Stone requires you to select one vehicle to protect at the start of the battle round
- only one character dreadnought
- deny stratagem now 2 CP (from 1)
- 4+ overwatch stratagem now 2CP (from 1)
- Nothing can be repaired more than once

So basically the invincible castle part has been nerfed hard. You'll still see all those heavy weapon vehicles, but at least something like killaklaw, nauts, tankbustas or lootas can take out the unprotected executioners.

 Daedalus81 wrote:
SemperMortis wrote:
Yes, because everyone lines up on the deployment line when facing off against orkz, especially when said orkz are fielding 3 Bonebreakers...which rely exclusively on getting into CC to inflict any kind of actual harm. All of your arguments rely upon your opponent being a brain dead muppet who just lets you maul him.


Yea...that's called board control.
 
   
Made in dk
Bonkers Buggy Driver with Rockets




Denmark

It's good to see GW working so fast correcting their larger rules mistakes.

On a redder, faster note, I recently purchased 5 Ork Bikers to ride with my Biker Boss Warlord w. Killa Klaw and BBK. Would it make sense to give them a Nob with BC, or should I just field them as plain biker Boyz, as all they are for is to soak wounds from the Biker boss, and shoot screening units to bits, so that he can make a charge.

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I don't think you can go wrong with a big choppa, you want the nob anyways since it is a free extra wound.

 Daedalus81 wrote:
SemperMortis wrote:
Yes, because everyone lines up on the deployment line when facing off against orkz, especially when said orkz are fielding 3 Bonebreakers...which rely exclusively on getting into CC to inflict any kind of actual harm. All of your arguments rely upon your opponent being a brain dead muppet who just lets you maul him.


Yea...that's called board control.
 
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut






I'm playing another game this afternoon, this time I'm going Goff and bringing a unit of slugga boys to jump, deff dreads, a bonebreaka full of nobs with a waaagh! banner and a wartrike to keep it all moving. Supporting fire will be flashgits and a SSAG (not getting anything from the klan culture here, but it's still a good weapon). Hopefully they will hit hard and wreck things! I shall post what I learn from the game next week!

Orks in 8th, W/D/L
7/0/3 
   
Made in fr
Trazyn's Museum Curator





on the forum. Obviously

 Jidmah wrote:
I don't think you can go wrong with a big choppa, you want the nob anyways since it is a free extra wound.


Yeah, there's no point in not taking a nob. Its free stats.
I don't agree with that and I think you should pay for unit character upgrades, relics and that those unit upgrade stratagems (chapter masters, 'ard boyz, skarboyz) should be codex entries instead, but that's just me.

What I have
~4100
~1660
: LM

Westwood lives in death!
Peace through power!

A longbeard when it comes to Necrons and WHFB. Grumble Grumble

 
   
Made in dk
Bonkers Buggy Driver with Rockets




Denmark

Thanks for the quick replies ladz, I had the old ways in mind, and I had forgot that the Nob was a free upgrade. Then I might as well give him a Big Choppa for 5 pts

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/10/18 11:35:21


2000pts Da Blitza Boyz! (Orks) 50% painted.

My Ork P&M Blog:
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/564900.page

Forge World Arkurian Pattern Stormblade:
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/558337.page 
   
Made in us
Nasty Nob on Warbike with Klaw





Nebraska, USA

Biker bossnob unfortunately lacks the wording for dual-choppa which is also good. Free 5 S5 attacks at the cost of your slugga...wooo!
Unfortunately the Powerklaw is kinda worthless atm. Which annoys me, i have a lot of bikers with klaws lol.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/10/18 13:40:19


An ork with an idea tends to end with a bang.

9000pts Big 'n Bad Orkz
4000pts Admech/Knights 
   
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 Vineheart01 wrote:
Biker bossnob unfortunately lacks the wording for dual-choppa which is also good. Free 5 S5 attacks at the cost of your slugga...wooo!
Unfortunately the Powerklaw is kinda worthless atm. Which annoys me, i have a lot of bikers with klaws lol.


Yeah, it really shows the swings between difference weapons in editions. Last edition plasma was pretty niche as a weapon while meltaguns were the hot sauce as far as special weapons went. Similarly, PK were our workhorse while big choppas were filler options for Nobz squads. Now its swung the other way around for both. Hopefully with the next CA, we'll at least have a price cut like everyone else got, though I feel like the PK should be D6 damage while the Killsaw does a flat 3.

My milkshakes bring all the boys to the yard and they're like, hurr darry darr.


My suggestion to you is to get married, if you have a good wife you'll be happy, if you have a bad wife you'll become a philosopher. 
   
Made in us
Nasty Nob on Warbike with Klaw





Nebraska, USA

I think D6 is a bit extreme given how easily we can spam it. Ever played the KMB spam game? Its kinda nuts how easily multiwound models just vanish.
Its difficult to say what would be a good fix for it, other than just becoming pennies cheap with the -1 to hit modifier being the main cost. Make it too cheap, then why does the Bigchop exist? Make it too strong, what about dread klaws or killaklaw or even killsaws?
It was only good before because instadeath was a thing. S9 splatted MOST multiwound models, and the few it didnt were a vehicle so it had good odds to explode them anyway. Since instadeath is gone and they dont do crazy damage theyre kinda moot.
Plasma kinda devolved into just "feth your armor" shots, great at killing marines/termies not so great against vehicles unless you got access to stuff like Admech Ryza's stratagem that adds +1 to wound and damage for plasma weapons.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/10/18 15:26:47


An ork with an idea tends to end with a bang.

9000pts Big 'n Bad Orkz
4000pts Admech/Knights 
   
Made in de
Waaagh! Ork Warboss on Warbike





I'd have no issues paying 25 points for a D6 PK with no -1 to hit.

BC would have the niche of being the cheap option in case you need to shave off points.

As for how easy it is to spam - every unit that could be used to spam PK nobz right now is performing poorly - trukk boyz, kommandoz, warbikers and every warboss without the killaklaw.

Anything but boyz gets caught by the rule of 3 anyways, and I don't think that spamming trukkboyz would be bad for the game, quite the opposite.

 Daedalus81 wrote:
SemperMortis wrote:
Yes, because everyone lines up on the deployment line when facing off against orkz, especially when said orkz are fielding 3 Bonebreakers...which rely exclusively on getting into CC to inflict any kind of actual harm. All of your arguments rely upon your opponent being a brain dead muppet who just lets you maul him.


Yea...that's called board control.
 
   
 
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