Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

So right now im looking at some of the cards for Warmachine, and i noticed that Warcasters downt have a point cost on them, Just Warjack points.
Do warcasters not cost anything?
Sorry if this is a stupid an nonsensical question, im trying to figure out warmachine and decide if i really want to make it a main game i play or just an auxilallry.

Warcasters do not have any cost, they are free. The warjack points are the free points you get in addition to the points limit to spend on warjacks. Hope that makes sense.

So in building a list i dont need to worry about the warcaster? So they effectively give me negative points?

hotsauceman1 wrote:So in building a list i dont need to worry about the warcaster? So they effectively give me negative points?

yup, pretty much. just bear in mind those extra points can only be spent on warjacks in their battlegroup. Effevtively, it means 1 warjack costs that many points less... if that makes sense

You build an army by first picking your warcaster. Since every army has a single warcaster (except when you go up to ~ 100 points or more, then you get two or three per side), the warcaster is free. Each warcaster brings his warjack points. These are in addition to your points total, but can only be spent on warjacks, so if you don't bring warjacks for at least that number of points, they are lost.

For example, I choose Forward Kommander Sorscha as my warcaster. She brings +6 Warjacks points. For a 25-point-game, this means I can spend a total of 31 points on my army, as long as I bring warjacks for at least 6 of those points. Since no Khador warjack costs less than 6 points, I can happily think of my army has having 31 points as long as I bring a jack.

Other factions have a few cheaper jacks, so you have to make sure you spend those warjack points, but it usually isn't difficult.

If you are just learning WM, just take the battlebox of your chosen faction and find a player who does a few battlebox games with you. Units and solos and all that are easy to learn once you got the basics and how jacks work figured out. I think most battleboxes amount to an 11-point-army each. Khador has a Juggernaut for 7, a Destroyer for 9 and pSorscha for -5, ie 11 points, too. Menoth has a Crusader for 6, a Revenger for 6 and a Repenter for 4, so 11 again.

Some battle boxes can go up to 13 sky. I know the legion box is 13. I'm pretty sure others add up to that much as well.

IF i can ask, what is the average difference between points for warcasters? is it big or small. like a 1 point difference of 5 point difference.

And Cryx uses their inherent cheaty-ness ability and gets 14 points on theirs.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

hotsauceman1 wrote:IF i can ask, what is the average difference between points for warcasters? is it big or small. like a 1 point difference of 5 point difference.

Not that big. At the moment, you basically have a range of Warnoun points from 3 to 7, with most casters falling in the 5 or 6 point range.

It should be noted that those Warcasters (or Warlocks) that only have 3 or 4 Warjack/beast points are usually accompanied by a special Jack, Beast or attachment.

The Old Witch of Khador with her Scrapjack
Epic Kaya with Laris
Mortenebra with Deryliss
etc.

Or they are horrendously powerful on their own, like Epic Thagrosh.

Well, eThags is a beast in his own right and he does spawn one when he's injured.

Stoupe wrote:Some battle boxes can go up to 13 sky. I know the legion box is 13. I'm pretty sure others add up to that much as well.

The Cryx box is 14.

The dragon factions tend to have an edge. Cryx and Everblight are beloved of Jason Soles and other misanthropes.

aservan wrote:The dragon factions tend to have an edge. Cryx and Everblight are beloved of Jason Soles and other misanthropes.

Jason Soles? A misanthrope? What makes you say that?

No faction has an edge over another faction. Casters/warlocks have an edge over certain other caster/warlocks. the balnce is not caster to caster, rather faction to faction. You can not "Net Deck" in this gane like others. You still have the skill level of the person playing the army to consider. You can take a list that won a major tournament and that is not a gaurantee of winning anything. just because you take a Neutralyze list doesnt mean you will win. That guy plays on average 15 games+ a week. Piloting skill is what wins games, not faction choice.

Warcatsers are free and warjack points are usually 5-6 on all warcasters exept old witch of khador who has 3

YELLOWBLADES wrote:Warcatsers are free and warjack points are usually 5-6 on all warcasters exept old witch of khador who has 3

Old Witch isn't the only exception to the 5-6 range. Terminus and Mortenebra are 4, the new incarnation of Asphyxious is only 3, Kaelyssa is 7, as is Gorten. On the Hordes side, 2Kaya is 3, Kromac is 4, Bethayne and 2Thag are both 3. 1Morghul has 7, as does 1Doomy. You can't quite say that every faction has one exception to the 5-6 rules, but it's pretty close.

warlordgarou wrote:

YELLOWBLADES wrote:Warcatsers are free and warjack points are usually 5-6 on all warcasters exept old witch of khador who has 3

Old Witch isn't the only exception to the 5-6 range. Terminus and Mortenebra are 4, the new incarnation of Asphyxious is only 3, Kaelyssa is 7, as is Gorten. On the Hordes side, 2Kaya is 3, Kromac is 4, Bethayne and 2Thag are both 3. 1Morghul has 7, as does 1Doomy. You can't quite say that every faction has one exception to the 5-6 rules, but it's pretty close.

Interesting... I didn't know that. I guess most of the time i play with and against menoth or khador

YELLOWBLADES wrote:

warlordgarou wrote:

YELLOWBLADES wrote:Warcatsers are free and warjack points are usually 5-6 on all warcasters exept old witch of khador who has 3

Old Witch isn't the only exception to the 5-6 range. Terminus and Mortenebra are 4, the new incarnation of Asphyxious is only 3, Kaelyssa is 7, as is Gorten. On the Hordes side, 2Kaya is 3, Kromac is 4, Bethayne and 2Thag are both 3. 1Morghul has 7, as does 1Doomy. You can't quite say that every faction has one exception to the 5-6 rules, but it's pretty close.

Interesting... I didn't know that. I guess most of the time i play with and against menoth or khador

I'm an army altaholic - I can field at least 35 points of everything, and I have enough of the odd ones that they kind of stick in my head.

As a note, the reason the Cryx and the Legion boxes have so many points is simply a conversion to MkII situation. In MkI, they were closer to the other boxes in relative cost (about 270pts.) Arcnodes in general are more expensive relatively (about +1 PC over an equivilant warjack it seems). Lesser warbeasts are similarly more relatively expensive I think.

The Circle and Protectorage parts of the two-player boxes are 12 and 13pts respectively too.

There's also some low-cost boxes, such as the Rhulic one, which I think is something like 9 or 10pts.

And stuff.

The Rhulic is 8. It's Gorten (+7), a driller (6 pts), and x3 gunners (3 pts ea). I'm pretty sure that it is the cheapest, in terms of points.

And the gunbunnies are incredibly effective for 1 Focus each.

Player skill is the most important determinant of the winner in any given game. After that luck is the most important. Rubber lancing on a critical charge will cost you any game.

After that there is a hierarchy of factions. Even then it can depend on the game. For example Cryx has lots of fast units that can ignore terrain or other models. This makes them excel in scenario play as most scenarios require getting to a point and holding it. Khador and Menoth have slower lists and tend to hate this kind of thing.

However Menoth, which excels in the denial and attrition categories, kicks ass in games that don't require you to take or hold any specific point. When they can make you come to them they're really, really tough.

Cryx gets a bad name because tournaments tend to be heavily scenario focused giving them an edge.

After the near worship they received in the Colossals fluff, they aren't likely to be held in high esteem by any non-Cryx player.

I've taught a lot of newbies the game with battle boxes. Who wins depends on how fast the Cryx player grasps arc nodes. If the newbie gets it quickly a Cryx win is a virtual certainty. If both sides are reduced to a bash fast than Khador has an edge.

Over all it's the best balanced war game I've ever played, but pretending there isn't room for improvement is naive.

Besides who said being a misanthrope was a bad thing?

Blaque wrote:As a note, the reason the Cryx and the Legion boxes have so many points is simply a conversion to MkII situation. In MkI, they were closer to the other boxes in relative cost (about 270pts.) Arcnodes in general are more expensive relatively (about +1 PC over an equivilant warjack it seems). Lesser warbeasts are similarly more relatively expensive I think.

Actually, Lessers are relatively inexpensive at 2 pts. However, the Carnivean is the most expensive non-character Heavy available to Legion.

It's actually the most expensive non-character heavy in the game actually. Until colossals and gargantuans hit, it actually was, pointwise, the most expensive non-character model I htink you could get.

That all being said, you are right. It is more the Carnivean costing more than Shredders.

And stuff.