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Not me, of course, I wouldn't cheat(honest). Let me explain. I played in a local (friendly) tournament recently, where a player won all his matches and came 1st(with an army I'd heard was very out of date and hard to win with). Thing is, in the game I played against him, he outright cheated, over and over. I wasn't familiar with the army he played with, so wasn't sure if his army was legal or not(I'm pretty sure now it wasn't), I showed him a copy of my army list(which he kept), but I didn't get to see his(I don't think he had one), so couldn't check at the time. He was very quick to anger when I did anything he didn't like, I think he was trying to bully me into not using certain rules. And at least four times he outright cheated to gain an advantage(I'm not talking little mistakes, but blatant cheats). Trouble is, because he won a lot, the other gamers just assumed he knew the game better than them, and give him the benefit of the doubt...

its not ok to cheat, no.

but if you let him get away with it, then you dont deserve to win :/

Yea, i personally dont play anyone without a hard list

Dragonzord wrote:its not ok to cheat, no.

but if you let him get away with it, then you dont deserve to win :/

I didn't want to make a scene(which round here is viewed as even worse)...

It is never alright to cheat. It seems to sound like they allow him to do it because he wins, which could be due to cheating to begin with.

ted1138 wrote:

Dragonzord wrote:its not ok to cheat, no.

but if you let him get away with it, then you dont deserve to win :/

I didn't want to make a scene(which round here is viewed as even worse)...

Is there another FLGS, if so go there, if they would rather have unfair gaming over a hair of drama then they obviously don't need your support.

ted1138 wrote:

Dragonzord wrote:its not ok to cheat, no.

but if you let him get away with it, then you dont deserve to win :/

I didn't want to make a scene(which round here is viewed as even worse)...

eh, all it takes is a simple 'is that in the rules? Show me'

i dont see that causing a scene, just a simple inquiry. If he throws a hissy fit at that then i'd just talk to the organisers to check on his rules.

Use the wording

"ah thats pretty cool, can I see the rules on that, I want to try it myself one day"

Dragonzord wrote:

ted1138 wrote:

Dragonzord wrote:its not ok to cheat, no.

but if you let him get away with it, then you dont deserve to win :/

I didn't want to make a scene(which round here is viewed as even worse)...

eh, all it takes is a simple 'is that in the rules? Show me'

i dont see that causing a scene, just a simple inquiry. If he throws a hissy fit at that then i'd just talk to the organisers to check on his rules.

I'm gonna have a word with the store owner(who was running things) about this guy(who I think isn't a regular, he just came for the comp.). As for a scene, he shouted I was wrong when I asked him to move his models into base contact with my assaulting unit("Defenders React"), and the store owner was siding with him, until I showed them both the rule in the BRB, so I decided to bite my tongue for the rest of the game...

I hate it when people are like this. Getting angry and irritated over the game just saps the fun out of it. I can understand a disagreement might escalate, but to immediately jump to yelling? Gotta take the good with the bad, I guess.

If it's a tournament and you're getting bad vibes, tell him he needs to back up his claims - including that his army list is legal by providing you with said list since you showed him this courtesy, and don't forget the codex!

If he's being abusive "shut up and play your army, I'll play mine".

I know, this doesn't always work and can easily backfire, but simply sitting back and taking it is not a good thing to do. If you're not prepared to take a verbal confrontation, simply packing up your army could be the way to go and make sure the TO knows you packed up because it was impossible to get a good game out of the opponent and that you felt you were getting cheated all the time. (But make sure you've forfeited before calling "cheat" to the TO since this will make your claim more valid when you're not trying to win by deus ex machina so to speak)

WHY WOULD YOU EVEN ASK THIS QUESTION?

Cheating is always to be highlighted, at all times at all levels. Integrity is a big part of this game.

When you knowingly allow someone to cheat, then Morally you are culpable as well. Morale Courage is the ability to step up and say "NO" regardless of the situation, it's not easy (nothing in life that is important is ever easy) but to shrug and let it go is moral cowardice and this attitude allows cheaters and the dishonest to flourish.

This applies equally to the Law, when you knowingly see or allow someone to commit a crime and you fail to report it you are culpable (to a degree) as well.

Morale Courage is what keeps society straight, the man who stands up and rights a wrong, regardless of fear is a good man. I was never this way at 21 Years old, but after being the military for a long time, I have learned to be Morally fearless in bringing people to account. It increases your standing, the way you hold your self and your self esteem. Do not just be a good man, prove it to the world. Stand up for integrity, honesty and believe me people will view you with the utmost respect.

mwnciboo wrote:WHY WOULD YOU EVEN ASK THIS QUESTION?

Cheating is always to be highlighted, at all times at all levels. Integrity is a big part of this game.

When you knowingly allow someone to cheat, then Morally you are culpable as well. Morale Courage is the ability to step up and say "NO" regardless of the situation, it's not easy (nothing in life that is important is ever easy) but to shrug and let it go is moral cowardice and this attitude allows cheaters and the dishonest to flourish.

This applies equally to the Law, when you knowingly see or allow someone to commit a crime and you fail to report it you are culpable (to a degree) as well.

Morale Courage is what keeps society straight, the man who stands up and rights a wrong, regardless of fear is a good man. I was never this way at 21 Years old, but after being the military for a long time, I have learned to be Morally fearless in bringing people to account. It increases your standing, the way you hold your self and your self esteem. Do not just be a good man, prove it to the world. Stand up for integrity, honesty and believe me people will view you with the utmost respect.

+1
This is something that many people in the world need to learn. Have an exalt

So how did he bully you into making you not use certain things to your advantage without causing a scene? If he's gona cause a scene be as brazen as he is and cause a scene when ever he is there without a list and 'cheating'. Simply put if he's not playing by the rules, he isn't playing the game. So suck it up and stand up to it even if it causes 'a scene'.

Hate people like that, sulk if things don't go their way, it's just a game, tell others about him.

Cheating's never ok, and if making a scene is considered worse then you're obviously in a strange place. If they're blatantly cheating, do the following:
1) check your rulebook to make sure they're cheating and you're not wrong, for obvious reasons.
2) tell whoever's in charge. At my FLGS if you're caught cheating you're sent outside and not allowed in for the rest of the day.
Simple, see?

wanting to win is part of the game but cheating isnt it winds me up more than anything else.

I doubt I would've been as pleasent with him as you seem to have been.

And no, it is never ok to paint.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I ment cheat.

Freud would have a lot to say about that.

Did you not have parents or something? Of course it's not okay to cheat

I'm not sure how you could possibly come to the conclusion that a bad thing is OK if it works. It's not OK to steal if you get the money, it's not OK to murder someone if they end up dead. It's the action that's bad, why would succeeding change that? What a strange thought.

Small, Far Away wrote:I doubt I would've been as pleasent with him as you seem to have been.

And no, it is never ok to paint.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I ment cheat.

Freud would have a lot to say about that.

Tell me about your mother...

Here's your answer to this question: Is it OK to murder if you get away with it?

ted1138 wrote:I didn't want to make a scene(which round here is viewed as even worse)...

Is it really though? A lot of (but certainly not all) gamers are quite shy and introverted, and will back away from a confrontation. This isn't tacit approval for backing down, nor is it a quiet disapproval of anyone creating a confrontation. It just means most gamers won't get into one.

If you think someone is cheating, ask them politely and with a friendly attitude to show you the rules.

"Oh, really? I haven't seen that before! Can you show me the rule? "

And if they don't like something you're doing, you should (with the same friendly and polite attitude) show them the rule.

"I know, it's a pretty powerful rule if you use it in the right circumstances. Here, take a look "

As my teacher would say before exams " its only cheating if I catch you".

Kaldor wrote:
"I know, it's a pretty powerful rule if you use it in the right circumstances. Here, take a look "

"also, it's in crayon. Weird, huh? I know, right? GW. Need I say more?"

The only time it is fine to cheat in tabletop wargaming is when it is Bloodbowl - that's because the rules specifically say that cheating is alright so long as you don't get caught!

If you win through cheating then your 'victory' is false, undeserved and frankly worthless. When you step up to play a game of 40k with someone then you are agreeing, unless through discussion you both determine otherwise, to play by the set of rules in the BRB, and to play the game in a fair & friendly manner. Under tournament conditions that also means that you allow your opponent to see the list you have drawn up from the Codex so that they can see you haven't made any mistakes & gives them an idea of what they face.

Frankly I'm surprised he was allowed to even field his army without a legitimate list written down on paper - we always take three copies of our lists to tournaments. One for us, one for the officials & one to hand over to our opponents each game. If anyone does that again get them to write down a list there & then on a piece of paper. If they haven't got the Codex with them see if anyone else is playing the same army & politely ask if you can borrow their Codex so that your opponent can write down their list. If they cheat, blatantly, call them out on it. If they persist point it out to the officials with the rulebook to back you up.

Never trust that someone might 'know it all' because people are only human & will make mistakes. One of our chaps in our gaming group has an incredible memory for rules, stats & so on yet he always has the Codex & rulebook to hand to back up his memory in case he has remembered whatever it is incorrectly. So, basically, always refer to the BRB or the Codex for anything you're unsure of - don't be worried if it might make it look as though you don't know the rules, it is better to check & be sure than just let it go.

What's with some of the negative here? Read my op, and not just the title of the thread please(and yes, my parents did teach me not to cheat, and no, I'm not stupid).


@JbR of the Endless Spire, I'll give you an example. At the start of his turn two, I said I was using my Kryptek's Staff of Light to make it Night Fighting. To which he shouted I couldn't as I'm meant to say so before his turn starts, ie, before I finished my turn 1, and before saying"it's your turn 2"(he'd already insisted at the beginning of the game that solar pulses should only work in Dawn of War deployment).

To clarify a little. Half the stuff he did that was cheating, I didn't know for sure was cheating(like telling me his drop pods can't deviate off the table, or that he could bring them on 1st turn, or that he could choose to roll for them or not, as he was playing a non "Codex" chapter), and the other stuff he could have just claimed was an honest mistake(like moving his land raider, firing both TL Lascannons, then using Machine spirit to fire the TL H.Bolters, or running a squad after moving his assault moves). Then there was the always positioning the blast templates over the target before rolling for scatter, just to make sure he gets the most hits if a "Hit" comes up, then claiming a model over to the side(who would have been the only one hit) was the actual target when it does deviate, thus not moving away from them, but right into the middle(there's no way of proving he was lying).

Report him to your FLC (Friendly Local Commissariat).

Sit back.

Enjoy summary execution.

Seriously though, call him out on it. Who cares if it causes a scene?

The worst that can happen (non-violence wise) is that you get kicked out of the tournament and/or store. Not that big of a deal, cause they were cheating anyways, right?

Nocturn wrote:Report him to your FLC (Friendly Local Commissariat).

Sit back.

Enjoy summary execution.

Seriously though, call him out on it. Who cares if it causes a scene?

The worst that can happen (non-violence wise) is that you get kicked out of the tournament and/or store. Not that big of a deal, cause they were cheating anyways, right?

That's easy to say when there's plenty of other places to go to play, but if I make things so awkward where I'm at that I don't want to play there anymore, then that's it over for me as far as wargaming is concerned.
I think from now on if I want to play in a tournament, I'll just save up and go over to a Throne of Skulls weekend, and only play in local games against those who, like me, play for fun.

ted1138 wrote:he'd already insisted at the beginning of the game that solar pulses should only work in Dawn of War deployment.

Now, I don't know masses about 'crons, but either this is cheating or my entire FLGS has been cheating every game. I don't doubt the rest of what you say either. What to do, is go down to your FLGS right now, say what happened, and if they're fair he won't be allowed to play anyone ever again without very strict supervision.

Aye, this guy is only getting away with it because folks aren't telling him he's wrong.

I assume this is a local tournie, somewhere like Warhammer World and he'd crash and burn.