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Mahtamori wrote:Ok, so it's a Space Marine army. Here's the thing about Space Marines, they are all the same except for one special rule. Learn one Space Marine army and you don't really need the others explained to you.

Drop Pods do come in on turn one - exactly half (fraction rounded down, iirc) will do this the other half are normal reserves.

It's rounded up. So if you have one drop pod, then that one drop pod can come in first turn.

Drop Pods deviating off table would be a mishap. Onto terrain or other models is what their guidance system protects them from.

Actually its only impassable terrain they can't land on and are protected from. If they land in normal terrain, it becomes dangerous and they take a dangerous terrain test for the drop pod, but not the models inside. I know this because it was FAQ'ed that if a drop pod suffers an immobilised result from a dangerous terrain test then it becomes a weapon destruyed result instead.

There is no such thing as a non-Codex chapter. There's only Marines Of Chapter X Cunningly Disguising Themselves In Other Colours Than They Really Are. Next time, try rubbing the models with your thumb to see what colour they are when the fresh paint comes off. Or ask him to provide you with the Codex he's using - either works.
He's actually allowed to place markers before scattering them, but he's not allowed to reposition it after placing it. This is why you pre-place the markers, by the way, since a marker's hole isn't necessarily placed square centre of the target model, either.

Well I know the blast template needs to be placed over a model. In 5th ed it did anyway. I believe it was over the models base it had to be. In my previous post I said head, but i think it is actually anywhere on the base.

It seems he was not at all in the know about the Necrons, though, so you just need to get in the game of paying back in kind. If he's shouting about stuff you know is wrong, just start questioning EVERYTHING you don't want him to do (even the stuff you know he's allowed to do) until he starts providing proof he can. You don't have to be a donkey about the questioning, you can be polite, but simply letting someone roll right over you won't do you any good nor the next person he plays. I mean, even such a blatantly insipid thing as "are you sure those are bolters and not shotguns? Let's check your codex" whenever he wants to shoot over 12" will eventually drive the message home. "I thought Blood Angels could only take Shotguns. You mean you don't have your codex with you. No, I'm very certain. Only shotguns.". "Yeah, really Gauss Rifles are rending. Nah, codex is in my bag, I thought since you don't have your codex I'd let it be down there". "Land Raiders don't have Machine Spirit, only the special variants do."

In other words if he is cheating then just cheat against him in kind. I suppose its one way to do it.


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ted1138 wrote: PS, this guy was playing BTs(if you haven't already guessed), and I checked after the tournament, and they can't use drop pods 1st turn, and they can't field Ironclad Dreadnoughts either(as far as I can tell)...

They can use drop pods first turn. It was FAQ'ed to change the wording.

http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m2420305a_Black_Templars_6th_Ed_V1.pdf

So, heated anger aside, there are only two ways to handle this situation.

1.) Know your rules. Really know them. Read the rulebook several times, and take lots of notes. Whenever something happens that you know isn't correct (you know because you read the rulebook and then read it again, and took notes), then challenge it. Every time. Look at your notes you took when reading the rulebook several times, and use that to point to the actual rule in the actual rulebook and demand that that rule be used.

Sooner or later (probably sooner), the cheater will ragequit and call you a rules whore and storm off. Hopefully permanently.

2.) cheat yourself. Obviously I don't mean against everybody, but against this person. If you are playing a game in which there are no set rules, then what you can do is limited only to your imagination.

Don't cheat even a little, like saying that your regular space marines have a 2+ save, I mean cheat a lot. Your guardsmen fly and have 10 power weapon attacks apiece. All of your marines deepstrike and have without number, and if they deepstrike within 12" of an enemy unit, that unit is removed from play on a 2+. Seriously, go wild. When your opponent requests to see any documentation on what he's doing, say no.

If he complains, offer to play the game by the actual rules, and revert to option 1.

ted1138 wrote:
So, knowing that the group you're in will treat the person you are playing like they know the rules better than you, and is a better player because they win more games, and will side with them before you, and that you can't at that time prove that they are cheating to the full extent they are, and also knowing how badly it would damage your reputation, you would still choose to make a scene? Then what? Storm out , never to return? I don't intend to let him get away with it. But nor do I intend to have it spoil my ability to spend my hobby time with people I've come to like and respect...
.

firstly, know your own rules, as i do. secondly, know the other guys rules, as i do. i dont give 2 figs what somone else might say. i dont care about group think, egos, cliques, fanboys and hangers on, and toadies. because i'll know the answer myself, and i'll be happy to show him the rules in the rulebook/codex that say either "yes, you can do this," or "no, you cant do this". If he continues having a go - well, while im not backing down, im staying polite, fair, friendly and professional about it all. wheres the scene? Now, as i've said before, asking someone to show you where they can do that is not making a scene. this isnt pistols at dawn, and the losers name shall be forever stricken from history. stop being so shrewish. those guys who blindly take his side? well, the second that you can point out where what you're calling him on is right (and that his is wrong) is the second that he loses that power.

you dont have to let him get away with it, either mate. seriously though, having a bit of backbone brings you a long way, and is in itself a long way from causing a scene. Just because people assume this guy is right does not make it so. and point it out. back up your points. prove your case. done.

Ted you deserved to lose and be cheated on. If you want to sacrifice honor and integrity for comfort, don't complain when you get treated like crap.

ted1138 wrote:

Dragonzord wrote:its not ok to cheat, no.

but if you let him get away with it, then you dont deserve to win :/

I didn't want to make a scene(which round here is viewed as even worse)...

So what you are left with is either accepting the fact the guy is going to cheat; and win. Or "make a scene" (not sure why that would be viewed as worse).
However, for the sake of diplomacy...talk to the other guys who play him. Ask them if they have noticed the same things you have. They may be in the same quandry...getting irritated that the guy is cheating but not wanting to be TFG. Let the store owner/event organizer know ahead of time and that you plan to call him on it next time (so the TO can be ready to make a ruling). If the TFG and the TO happen to be buddy-buddy then you may want to skip that step...no use in tipping your hand early, having the guy play one legal game, then making you look like an @ss.
Next, get a copy of his Codex and study it (or borrow a store copy and sit in a corner at the FLGS reading it). You already have an idea of what units he uses so look at them and see what they can do and not do; what gear they can take. Then look real hard at the new rules (6th ed) to make sure he hasn't found a loophole to exploit or something else like that. Try to recreate his list on AB (if you have it) and check it for validity.
Then the next time your playing the guy, especially in a tourny, if he does a suspect move call him on it. Ask to see the rule in the codex and any FAQs (you having already researched this know the answer). Make him prove his case. If he KNOWS you know how his army works AND your going to call him on it, he has the option to either start playing legal or get all pissy and walk away (giving you the win).
Make sure you call him on it in a calm clear voice. Not screaming, but loud enough that nearby tables can hear. After the 4th time hearing you say "dude, you cant move 12 and also do "X" the other players will know whats up and they will be ready to make the same call when they play him.
Don't forget after the fact to dink him in Sports points and put the comment down on your score sheet that the guy was playing loose and fast with the rules on multiple occasions, then got mad when his "error" was brought to his attention (because he sure as h3ll will dink you also).

Your other options are to accept the fact you will never win again because as time goes on he will get worse and worse. Or find a new store to play in.

Call a judge and ask him.

NEVER trust your opponent in a tourney when there's a good reason not to do so. If he really cheated, he should be banned from the tourney and hopefully longer.

It is better to lose than to be dishonourable.

What's the point in cheating?

If you cheat, you aren't playing the same game as your opponent, so it's completely irrelevant whether you win or not.

SickSix wrote:Ted you deserved to lose and be cheated on. If you want to sacrifice honor and integrity for comfort, don't complain when you get treated like crap.

There's no need to be such a jerk "SickSix". If you've nothing constructive to say here, then why don't you go troll somewhere else...

ted1138 wrote:

SickSix wrote:Ted you deserved to lose and be cheated on. If you want to sacrifice honor and integrity for comfort, don't complain when you get treated like crap.

There's no need to be such a jerk "SickSix". If you've nothing constructive to say here, then why don't you go troll somewhere else...

Woah, careful you don't create a scene!

Not impressed by the folks further victimizing a player asking for advice simply because they dislike confrontation. Personally I have no issue with confrontation what so ever.

Sicksix the mockery can be put aside. It isnt constructive. Not everyone can so easily stand up for themselves especially in a line hobbycraft that is notorious for introverted souls. Get off your highhorse, no one "deserves" to be victimized. Period.

There's your "scene" kaldor.

As far as your issue is concerned ted bring it up with the TO and show clear examples of rules misuse and cheating. You dont need to rant and rave but if you can clearly state your view and point to evidence supporting it no reasonable person will chastise you for wanting a fair game.

ted1138 wrote:Not me, of course, I wouldn't cheat(honest). Let me explain. I played in a local (friendly) tournament recently, where a player won all his matches and came 1st(with an army I'd heard was very out of date and hard to win with). Thing is, in the game I played against him, he outright cheated, over and over. I wasn't familiar with the army he played with, so wasn't sure if his army was legal or not(I'm pretty sure now it wasn't), I showed him a copy of my army list(which he kept), but I didn't get to see his(I don't think he had one), so couldn't check at the time. He was very quick to anger when I did anything he didn't like, I think he was trying to bully me into not using certain rules. And at least four times he outright cheated to gain an advantage(I'm not talking little mistakes, but blatant cheats). Trouble is, because he won a lot, the other gamers just assumed he knew the game better than them, and give him the benefit of the doubt...

Nothing about this sounds "friendly". And you payed to be treated this way?

Why would you waste your time participating in such stupidity with obvious douches?

I actually agree on the victimization, however you have to positively encourage people to stand up for themselves, even if they are introverted. Some introverted characters I have known, are intensely private and somewhat shy, but would stand up for what they believe. It's about encouragement and role models and making people believe in their voice, to say what they believe in.

Positive encouragement is a far cry from what amounts to little more then bullying. There are examples of both in this thread. I might be new here but nothing I had read so far led me to believe dakka was a place were mistreatment of folks was considered "okay" simply because a few folks "agreed" on it. Blame the victim, classic. /sarcasm

Lt.Soundwave wrote:Not impressed by the folks further victimizing a player asking for advice simply because they dislike confrontation. Personally I have no issue with confrontation what so ever.

Sicksix the mockery can be put aside. It isnt constructive. Not everyone can so easily stand up for themselves especially in a line hobbycraft that is notorious for introverted souls. Get off your highhorse, no one "deserves" to be victimized. Period.

There's your "scene" kaldor.

As far as your issue is concerned ted bring it up with the TO and show clear examples of rules misuse and cheating. You dont need to rant and rave but if you can clearly state your view and point to evidence supporting it no reasonable person will chastise you for wanting a fair game.

Lt.Soundwave wrote:Positive encouragement is a far cry from what amounts to little more then bullying. There are examples of both in this thread. I might be new here but nothing I had read so far led me to believe dakka was a place were mistreatment of folks was considered "okay" simply because a few folks "agreed" on it. Blame the victim, classic. /sarcasm

Exactly what i've been thinking. Well put, have yourself a couple exalts. I'm sorry that everyone isn't as bold and forthcoming as you guys. Some people are just really uncomfortable about confrontation, and just have a hard time standing up for themselves. Saying that these people "Deserve" to be pushed around and walked over for this is really disgusting. If you honestly think that if someone doesn't stand up for themselves, it's ok to bully them, you're at a much lower standing in society than the cheaters that you so piously preach against. When you saw that shy, quite kid you knew in highschool that got picked on a lot (you know the one) getting harrassed and abused by some asshats in the halls, did you honestly think "Well, he ought to tell them off. His fault he's getting picked on, kid should just grow a spine and make 'um get off his case"? If you did, then you are part of the problem.

i guess you shouldnt let him shout at you in the first place, if someone was like that to me i would tell them "you have a problem with me/my army/codex/whatever then gtfo and dont play with me". well maybe in a nicer way.

loota boy wrote:

Lt.Soundwave wrote:Not impressed by the folks further victimizing a player asking for advice simply because they dislike confrontation. Personally I have no issue with confrontation what so ever.

Sicksix the mockery can be put aside. It isnt constructive. Not everyone can so easily stand up for themselves especially in a line hobbycraft that is notorious for introverted souls. Get off your highhorse, no one "deserves" to be victimized. Period.

There's your "scene" kaldor.

As far as your issue is concerned ted bring it up with the TO and show clear examples of rules misuse and cheating. You dont need to rant and rave but if you can clearly state your view and point to evidence supporting it no reasonable person will chastise you for wanting a fair game.

Lt.Soundwave wrote:Positive encouragement is a far cry from what amounts to little more then bullying. There are examples of both in this thread. I might be new here but nothing I had read so far led me to believe dakka was a place were mistreatment of folks was considered "okay" simply because a few folks "agreed" on it. Blame the victim, classic. /sarcasm

Exactly what i've been thinking. Well put, have yourself a couple exalts. I'm sorry that everyone isn't as bold and forthcoming as you guys. Some people are just really uncomfortable about confrontation, and just have a hard time standing up for themselves. Saying that these people "Deserve" to be pushed around and walked over for this is really disgusting. If you honestly think that if someone doesn't stand up for themselves, it's ok to bully them, you're at a much lower standing in society than the cheaters that you so piously preach against. When you saw that shy, quite kid you knew in highschool that got picked on a lot (you know the one) getting harrassed and abused by some asshats in the halls, did you honestly think "Well, he ought to tell them off. His fault he's getting picked on, kid should just grow a spine and make 'um get off his case"? If you did, then you are part of the problem.

I agree with much of the sentiment herein, but my issue is that we are moving away from TED's core issue. Which was, and I freely paraphase "I thought he was cheating, but was conflicted between making a scene and not making a scene, because he was a good player I thought I would come off worse off so decided against it".

I have not advocated the victimization of someone who has had nefarious tactics used upon them, but there is an important distinction to be made. Chiefly that is whether it was conducted against you "Knowingly" or "unknowingly", if knowingly as per this case then you cannot decry because you had an opportunity to right this and chose not to. If however, it is unknowingly then you are a victim of an underhand trick.

Others have derailed this thread with aggressive hyperbole, but the fundamental premise of knowingly allowing some to commit a move outside of the rules, but not having the courage to report it or take issue with it makes you complicit in the act.

EDIT - When it comes to bullying , appeasement never, ever works. This is a fundamental of the universe, you can either be a victim all your life, or learn to control your fear and make it work for you. I was bullied at school, but that was because I had never been taught properly how to fight or to have the moral courage to do something. This came later in life, and now I understand better with life experience how to handle anti-social behaviour. The threat of physical violence, will always hold fear for me, but then so does the fear of humiliation or shame, or worse the denial of my rights. When push comes to shove, it's up to every individual to find his line in the sand, but the Law is there to protect you so you should never, ever be afraid to stand up for yourself.

If the ref does not catch it, then its not cheating.

xxvaderxx wrote:If the ref does not catch it, then its not cheating.

And this is why we can't have nice things...

mwnciboo wrote:

loota boy wrote:

Lt.Soundwave wrote:Not impressed by the folks further victimizing a player asking for advice simply because they dislike confrontation. Personally I have no issue with confrontation what so ever.

Sicksix the mockery can be put aside. It isnt constructive. Not everyone can so easily stand up for themselves especially in a line hobbycraft that is notorious for introverted souls. Get off your highhorse, no one "deserves" to be victimized. Period.

There's your "scene" kaldor.

As far as your issue is concerned ted bring it up with the TO and show clear examples of rules misuse and cheating. You dont need to rant and rave but if you can clearly state your view and point to evidence supporting it no reasonable person will chastise you for wanting a fair game.

Lt.Soundwave wrote:Positive encouragement is a far cry from what amounts to little more then bullying. There are examples of both in this thread. I might be new here but nothing I had read so far led me to believe dakka was a place were mistreatment of folks was considered "okay" simply because a few folks "agreed" on it. Blame the victim, classic. /sarcasm

Exactly what i've been thinking. Well put, have yourself a couple exalts. I'm sorry that everyone isn't as bold and forthcoming as you guys. Some people are just really uncomfortable about confrontation, and just have a hard time standing up for themselves. Saying that these people "Deserve" to be pushed around and walked over for this is really disgusting. If you honestly think that if someone doesn't stand up for themselves, it's ok to bully them, you're at a much lower standing in society than the cheaters that you so piously preach against. When you saw that shy, quite kid you knew in highschool that got picked on a lot (you know the one) getting harrassed and abused by some asshats in the halls, did you honestly think "Well, he ought to tell them off. His fault he's getting picked on, kid should just grow a spine and make 'um get off his case"? If you did, then you are part of the problem.

I agree with much of the sentiment herein, but my issue is that we are moving away from TED's core issue. Which was, and I freely paraphase "I thought he was cheating, but was conflicted between making a scene and not making a scene, because he was a good player I thought I would come off worse off so decided against it".

I have not advocated the victimization of someone who has had nefarious tactics used upon them, but there is an important distinction to be made. Chiefly that is whether it was conducted against you "Knowingly" or "unknowingly", if knowingly as per this case then you cannot decry because you had an opportunity to right this and chose not to. If however, it is unknowingly then you are a victim of an underhand trick.

Others have derailed this thread with aggressive hyperbole, but the fundamental premise of knowingly allowing some to commit a move outside of the rules, but not having the courage to report it or take issue with it makes you complicit in the act.

EDIT - When it comes to bullying , appeasement never, ever works. This is a fundamental of the universe, you can either be a victim all your life, or learn to control your fear and make it work for you. I was bullied at school, but that was because I had never been taught properly how to fight or to have the moral courage to do something. This came later in life, and now I understand better with life experience how to handle anti-social behaviour. The threat of physical violence, will always hold fear for me, but then so does the fear of humiliation or shame, or worse the denial of my rights. When push comes to shove, it's up to every individual to find his line in the sand, but the Law is there to protect you so you should never, ever be afraid to stand up for yourself.

But would you say that you deserved all those years of bullying because you didn't learn to control your fear?

More OT, this really depends on what kind of person Ted is. If Ted is an just our average Joe, and doesn't have problems confronting people, then yeah, next time call him on it. While you aren't an aweful, scum-of-the-earth person like some of the people here are making you out to be, it is true that you can't really get to mad at him for cheating if you knew he was cheating but did nothing to stop it. This is a situation that you have to take control of quickly, and stop before it can start. If you let it go, then it gets much harder to stop it in the future. Just call him on it next time.

If Ted is an introverted person who can't handle confrontation and just shrinks away if met with any force, than he has to handle it differently. While Ted ought to work on coming out of his shell and not being a doormat, there are other ways to stop this that don't involve confrontation. Just tell a TO, or inform all the guys at the game store of what he is doing, and advise them not to play him.

Personally, I dislike certain kinds of confrontation myself. While i'll stop someone if they are cheating me, I have a harder time doing this if i'm new to an area. I'm also almost physically unable to call someone out for lying or bs. When someone starts laying out a story that's obviously total BS, or generally just lies, I just really hate calling them on it. I perfer to just nod my head and smile, and later inform other people around at the time that whatever he said was a lie.

loota boy wrote:
But would you say that you deserved all those years of bullying because you didn't learn to control your fear?

Actually yes I would, my fear of injury and pain put me at the mercy of another. This allowed him a degree of control over me, which is completely irrational, he never actually hurt me but the threat of physical violence was enough to cow me. So actually I was allowing him to control me, even if physical violence had been forthcoming, once again the fear of further pain would be enough to exercise control over me. There comes a point when you have to stand up to them or else you will be a victim all your life. If you don't then you are actually allowing them to make a victim out of you.

Thanks to those sticking up for me here, I appreciate it. As for the rest, it's so easy when you have 20/20 hindsight, and you're safely far away from the incident. You can say all the things you'd do in that sort of situation, without ever having to put them to the test. In real life you never have all the information, and are rarely in the ideal environment to do what you want. Also, bear in mind that even if you are in the right, you will not always be treated so, even if you can prove you are, people around you will not always choose to side with you.


PS, the TO is fully aware of this guys behavior, and he's looking into it(there have been other allegations made of cheating), and hopefully this sort of thing shouldn't happen again.

Lt.Soundwave wrote:Not impressed by the folks further victimizing a player asking for advice simply because they dislike confrontation. Personally I have no issue with confrontation what so ever.

Sicksix the mockery can be put aside. It isnt constructive. Not everyone can so easily stand up for themselves especially in a line hobbycraft that is notorious for introverted souls. Get off your highhorse, no one "deserves" to be victimized. Period.

There's your "scene" kaldor.

As far as your issue is concerned ted bring it up with the TO and show clear examples of rules misuse and cheating. You dont need to rant and rave but if you can clearly state your view and point to evidence supporting it no reasonable person will chastise you for wanting a fair game.

Good post. I don't think it helps to say things like "you desevred to lose because you did nothing about it". The guy has already said that his group is unique because they don't like confrontation. So in my opinion in this situation its best to stay calm and challenge and then let the other guy create the scene himself.


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loota boy wrote:Exactly what i've been thinking. Well put, have yourself a couple exalts. I'm sorry that everyone isn't as bold and forthcoming as you guys. Some people are just really uncomfortable about confrontation, and just have a hard time standing up for themselves. Saying that these people "Deserve" to be pushed around and walked over for this is really disgusting. If you honestly think that if someone doesn't stand up for themselves, it's ok to bully them, you're at a much lower standing in society than the cheaters that you so piously preach against. When you saw that shy, quite kid you knew in highschool that got picked on a lot (you know the one) getting harrassed and abused by some asshats in the halls, did you honestly think "Well, he ought to tell them off. His fault he's getting picked on, kid should just grow a spine and make 'um get off his case"? If you did, then you are part of the problem.

You too. Have an upvote.

Can you imagine if President Lincoln was like that? Can you imagine If he had just said "its their fault they are slaves because they don't stand up for themselves". Doesn't bear thinking about really. It would be horrible.


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xxvaderxx wrote:If the ref does not catch it, then its not cheating.

Welcome to my ignore list.


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loota boy wrote: But would you say that you deserved all those years of bullying because you didn't learn to control your fear?

More OT, this really depends on what kind of person Ted is. If Ted is an just our average Joe, and doesn't have problems confronting people, then yeah, next time call him on it. While you aren't an aweful, scum-of-the-earth person like some of the people here are making you out to be, it is true that you can't really get to mad at him for cheating if you knew he was cheating but did nothing to stop it. This is a situation that you have to take control of quickly, and stop before it can start. If you let it go, then it gets much harder to stop it in the future. Just call him on it next time.

If Ted is an introverted person who can't handle confrontation and just shrinks away if met with any force, than he has to handle it differently. While Ted ought to work on coming out of his shell and not being a doormat, there are other ways to stop this that don't involve confrontation. Just tell a TO, or inform all the guys at the game store of what he is doing, and advise them not to play him.

Personally, I dislike certain kinds of confrontation myself. While i'll stop someone if they are cheating me, I have a harder time doing this if i'm new to an area. I'm also almost physically unable to call someone out for lying or bs. When someone starts laying out a story that's obviously total BS, or generally just lies, I just really hate calling them on it. I perfer to just nod my head and smile, and later inform other people around at the time that whatever he said was a lie.

I agree with what you're saying here but I would also like to add that its more complicated than this. Human Beings are very complicated and sometimes its not just about general character but can also be about what kind of mood you're in and what you're feeling at that particular moment of time. Most of the time I won't have a problem with challenging a rule that I think is not right. I know it helps me learn and sometimes it turns out that I am wrong when it comes to the rules, but its always good to clarrify things and read them for yourself. However this is just my general behaviour, at other times I may just not be in the mood to take issue with a particular rule just so long as the other guy doesn't take the complete micky. Other times I might get more aggressive about it if it annoys me too much, but it depends on the situation and its not always clear what kind of mood I'm in until it happens as well.


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ted1138 wrote:Thanks to those sticking up for me here, I appreciate it. As for the rest, it's so easy when you have 20/20 hindsight, and you're safely far away from the incident. You can say all the things you'd do in that sort of situation, without ever having to put them to the test. In real life you never have all the information, and are rarely in the ideal environment to do what you want. Also, bear in mind that even if you are in the right, you will not always be treated so, even if you can prove you are, people around you will not always choose to side with you.

Correct its easy for others to criticise but its never as simple as they make it sound. Sometimes it can be more complicated than that.

PS, the TO is fully aware of this guys behavior, and he's looking into it(there have been other allegations made of cheating), and hopefully this sort of thing shouldn't happen again.

Sounds good. No confrontation needed either.

Kilkrazy wrote:What's the point in cheating?

If you cheat, you aren't playing the same game as your opponent, so it's completely irrelevant whether you win or not.

Don't store tournaments have prizes to win? Especially if there's an entrance fee? A chance to get something moderately expensive makes for great incentive to cheat.

Even my group puts up 10€ per participant towards prizes for our big summer tournament, and we too might see some questionable behavior at times. Will be less now with 6th allowing measuring at all times (one guy used to draw his measuring tape out much further than needed for moving in order to get a quick look at possible shooting/assault targets at the same time). OTOH, he'd do that prizes or no - he just can't see anything but victory as "fun".

xxvaderxx wrote:If the ref does not catch it, then its not cheating.

You better follow up with this and say you were joking. You were joking right? If not consider the same logic used in the sentence "If the police does not catch it, then its not murder."

Cheating is never ok.

We are playing a game of toy soldiers, so any true cheating to win at this just smacks of pathetic desperation.

DarthOvious wrote:

loota boy wrote: But would you say that you deserved all those years of bullying because you didn't learn to control your fear?

More OT, this really depends on what kind of person Ted is. If Ted is an just our average Joe, and doesn't have problems confronting people, then yeah, next time call him on it. While you aren't an aweful, scum-of-the-earth person like some of the people here are making you out to be, it is true that you can't really get to mad at him for cheating if you knew he was cheating but did nothing to stop it. This is a situation that you have to take control of quickly, and stop before it can start. If you let it go, then it gets much harder to stop it in the future. Just call him on it next time.

If Ted is an introverted person who can't handle confrontation and just shrinks away if met with any force, than he has to handle it differently. While Ted ought to work on coming out of his shell and not being a doormat, there are other ways to stop this that don't involve confrontation. Just tell a TO, or inform all the guys at the game store of what he is doing, and advise them not to play him.

Personally, I dislike certain kinds of confrontation myself. While i'll stop someone if they are cheating me, I have a harder time doing this if i'm new to an area. I'm also almost physically unable to call someone out for lying or bs. When someone starts laying out a story that's obviously total BS, or generally just lies, I just really hate calling them on it. I perfer to just nod my head and smile, and later inform other people around at the time that whatever he said was a lie.

I agree with what you're saying here but I would also like to add that its more complicated than this. Human Beings are very complicated and sometimes its not just about general character but can also be about what kind of mood you're in and what you're feeling at that particular moment of time. Most of the time I won't have a problem with challenging a rule that I think is not right. I know it helps me learn and sometimes it turns out that I am wrong when it comes to the rules, but its always good to clarrify things and read them for yourself. However this is just my general behaviour, at other times I may just not be in the mood to take issue with a particular rule just so long as the other guy doesn't take the complete micky. Other times I might get more aggressive about it if it annoys me too much, but it depends on the situation and its not always clear what kind of mood I'm in until it happens as well.

Of course, I agree entirely. But like you said, human beings are very complex, and if i tried to create a response for every possible reaction he could have been having, i'd probably still be typing the message right now, and would have an unparaleled understanding of psychology. So i just split it up into two broad groups.

@mwnciboo

I think you are being a little hard on yourself. Fear of pain and injury is natural for most everybody, and the threat of such is pretty cowing for most of us. I had friends that were bullied, and the last thing I wanted to hear them say is "I guess i deserve it. I ought to have stood up for myself." No one deserves to be bullied or walked all over. Being bullied is never your fault for not standing up for yourself, or not being able to assert yourself. You should learn to stand up for yourself, and you should learn to assert yourself, but when you don't do so, that doesn't make it alright to bully you. Just because someone makes it easy for you to do something wrong does not make it ok. It'd be easy to mug an old women walking by herself down a deserted and sometimes dangerous street. She ought to know that she shouldn't walk alone at night on dangerous streets. Does that mean it's ok to mug her, because she's allowed herself to be in a dangerous situation? Try explaining that one to the police.

Just in case I come across as harsh or offensive here, i don't mean it like that. I hope you don't read this like it's an attack on you.

If he cheats refuse to play him and inform the TO before the event starts.

loota boy wrote:

DarthOvious wrote:

loota boy wrote: But would you say that you deserved all those years of bullying because you didn't learn to control your fear?

More OT, this really depends on what kind of person Ted is. If Ted is an just our average Joe, and doesn't have problems confronting people, then yeah, next time call him on it. While you aren't an aweful, scum-of-the-earth person like some of the people here are making you out to be, it is true that you can't really get to mad at him for cheating if you knew he was cheating but did nothing to stop it. This is a situation that you have to take control of quickly, and stop before it can start. If you let it go, then it gets much harder to stop it in the future. Just call him on it next time.

If Ted is an introverted person who can't handle confrontation and just shrinks away if met with any force, than he has to handle it differently. While Ted ought to work on coming out of his shell and not being a doormat, there are other ways to stop this that don't involve confrontation. Just tell a TO, or inform all the guys at the game store of what he is doing, and advise them not to play him.

Personally, I dislike certain kinds of confrontation myself. While i'll stop someone if they are cheating me, I have a harder time doing this if i'm new to an area. I'm also almost physically unable to call someone out for lying or bs. When someone starts laying out a story that's obviously total BS, or generally just lies, I just really hate calling them on it. I perfer to just nod my head and smile, and later inform other people around at the time that whatever he said was a lie.

I agree with what you're saying here but I would also like to add that its more complicated than this. Human Beings are very complicated and sometimes its not just about general character but can also be about what kind of mood you're in and what you're feeling at that particular moment of time. Most of the time I won't have a problem with challenging a rule that I think is not right. I know it helps me learn and sometimes it turns out that I am wrong when it comes to the rules, but its always good to clarrify things and read them for yourself. However this is just my general behaviour, at other times I may just not be in the mood to take issue with a particular rule just so long as the other guy doesn't take the complete micky. Other times I might get more aggressive about it if it annoys me too much, but it depends on the situation and its not always clear what kind of mood I'm in until it happens as well.

Of course, I agree entirely. But like you said, human beings are very complex, and if i tried to create a response for every possible reaction he could have been having, i'd probably still be typing the message right now, and would have an unparaleled understanding of psychology. So i just split it up into two broad groups

Absolutely, I was just adding onto what you already said.

to get ahead in life...yes.

in this game, no.