What's the best & worst digital army builder you've used or heard of & why?

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**Tetsugaku**

Hi there, my name's Miles, you may remember me from such long discussions as Ios & Android - why no Android?.

I'm doing some research into digital products and how they cross over into the analogue gaming realm.
Specifically I'm building a case study into what GW (or another gaming company) could do if they fully embraced digital.

This phase is the discovery phase - I'm looking for examples of digital list writing or army organisation tools that you like, loathe or are otherwise worth a mention.

If you could tell me
* What the product is called
* Any URL's you know
* What's great
* What's not great
* What you'd change if you had a magic wand

I would be immensely pleased. Negative feedback, backed up with examples and reasoning is just as valuable to me, if not more so.

Look forward to your replies and thanks for your help.

The findings, along with the follow ups and my eventual conclusions will be published on my own blog as well as my portfolio. I'll be giving thanks to anyone who has anything helpful to say!

**scarletsquig**

Battlescribe is awesome and free and available for *all* platforms, desktop and mobile.

**wraith[cs]**

www.easyarmy.com

Best, hands down, Flames of War army creator out there.

Pros
- Same layout as a page from a forces book
- easy and clear to understand unit selection and upgrade process
- clear and concise printouts, with options for different formats for output

Cons
- only some of the lists are free, but the rest can be had for 1.00 US

I will second Battlescribe, as well. Excellent piece of software.

Pros
- easy and simple to use
- readily available pre constructed datafiles/lists
- compatible with many devices

Cons
- cons are only for the super lazy that don't want to spend the time to input their own unit information. Like me.

**12thRonin**

Like:
BattleScribe
+ Easy to create files
+ Prints cleanly
+ Mobile friendly
iBodger
+ Great UI, email lists
- OOP due to Warroom (I still use it on my phone though)
ForwardKommander (Warmahordes)
+ Website
+ Accurate for most normal lists
+ Good printing options
+ Save lists online so you can access anywhere
+ Quick updates
~ Tiers are kinda spotty

Dislike:
Army Builder
-perpetual licensing model, kludgy output, bad datafile organization (before the AB defenders come out, he asked for opinion so suck it)

**Aerethan**

This thread won't end well.

I use Army Builder by Lone Wolf. http://www.wolflair.com/index.php?context=army_builder

I've used it since I first started WFB 12 years ago. The main reason I still use it is because I'm very familiar with it.

Pros:
Print format is generally easy to see and has stat lines so you don't have to page flip mid game.
Entire magic lore can be printed with each caster for easy reference to spells.
A great tool for tweaking lists.

Cons:
The non printed text format that it outputs is quite a mess.
Updates are never any sooner than 30 days after the official book is out(for GW only I think)
Since the data files are made by 3rd parties, sometimes there are errors or glitches, most of which are minor and are generally fixed with each update.

What would I change?
I'd make a forum friendly text output that gave list summaries in a proper forum format.
More skins for the program would be nice.

I looked at Battlescribe and it just didn't appeal to me. The prospect of learning how to do it their way isn't appealing. I already know how AB works, and I know how to spot errors which I can manually correct.

**leohart**

Battlescribe
+ Free
+ Mac, Windows, Linux, iOS and Android (beat that)
+ Most catalogues are well-maintained.

- Doesn't come default with all the wargear and such, only options (but this is because of GW)
- Not open source

**Aerethan**

12thRonin wrote:Like:

Dislike:
Army Builder
-perpetual licensing model, kludgy output, bad datafile organization (before the AB defenders come out, he asked for opinion so suck it)

I won't argue the first two points(although the printed output is fine, it's the text file outputs that suck). But how is their data file organization bad? There is a single page with every data file on it, along with when it was last updated and who wrote it. It's all very straightforward.

**12thRonin**

I'm talking about the organization of the file itself, not how they organize it.

**Davylove21**

I've discovered that I love making my own catalogue files in battlescribe, that way I can make sure it fits how I prefer my army list to look in terms of profiles updating themselves or letting me apply modifiers, special rules etc.

So far I've done Tau and DKoK, next I'm probably going to work on Orks.

That's why I love battlescribe

**Aerethan**

12thRonin wrote:I'm talking about the organization of the file itself, not how they organize it.

I'm still not understanding. Are you editing the files yourself? I have zero interaction with the actual files once I install them. The manner in which they work in AB seems rather straightforward.

**12thRonin**

Aerethan wrote:
12thRonin wrote:I'm talking about the organization of the file itself, not how they organize it.

I'm still not understanding. Are you editing the files yourself? I have zero interaction with the actual files once I install them. The manner in which they work in AB seems rather straightforward.

I have, yes to fix problems with systems that were no longer actively supported or a problem with a file between releases by whoever supports it.

**Aerethan**

12thRonin wrote:
Aerethan wrote:
12thRonin wrote:I'm talking about the organization of the file itself, not how they organize it.

I'm still not understanding. Are you editing the files yourself? I have zero interaction with the actual files once I install them. The manner in which they work in AB seems rather straightforward.

I have, yes to fix problems with systems that were no longer actively supported or a problem with a file between releases by whoever supports it.

Ah. that perhaps isn't an issue with 90% of users as most don't try to edit files at all. I have no experience with editing or writing files myself, but I do understand needing to for systems that are no longer supported. Fair enough.

**Byte**

Battlescribe.

1. Free.
2. Free.
3. Easy.

**daedalus**

Army Builder

+ options, options, options!
+ modular datafiles with installation being as simple as doubleclicking a file
+ autoupdates while licensed

- overly complicated datafiles (from the editing side of things)
- obnoxious licensing scheme

Battlescribe

+ free
+ crossplatform

- no http proxy option (so much for using it at work)
- light on wargear details
- limited output options (compared with army builder)
- compels you to scream about how much you like it from rooftops

**Aerethan**

Tetsugaku wrote:

If you could tell me
* What the product is called
* Any URL's you know
* What's great
* What's not great
* What you'd change if you had a magic wand

Byte wrote:Battlescribe.

1. Free.
2. Free.
3. Easy.

Did you not bother reading the list of things he's asking for? I swear BS fanboys are not all there.

**chromedog**

Best: Army builder by Wolflair. Everyone else should have posted its address by now. No longer use it, so I don't even have the site bookmarked anymore.
Ease of use over multiple gaming platforms (support for many game systems).

Worst: Armies of the Imperium by GW. It's no longer in production and wasn't supported by them when it WAS.

**StoneRaizer**

If you could tell me
* What the product is called
* Any URL's you know
* What's great
* What's not great
* What you'd change if you had a magic wand

Product: BattleScribe
URL: www.battlescribe.net
What's great:

- Free
- Has all of the data files for many games
- Community supported

What's not great
- Printed output spans many pages

What I'd change
- Condense the printouts to fewer pages
- Have the unit's stats beside their entry, instead of as a summary at the back of the book

Name: Adobe InDesign
URL: http://www.adobe.com/products/indesign.html
What's great:

- Desktop publishing program with a wide variety of features. Can be used for many more applications than army list building.
- Can customize typefaces, sizes, tables, everything to make the list look exactly how you want it to

What's not great:
- Not an actual "army building" program
- Expensive
- Steep learning curve, although some great manuals are available

Magic wand:
- Army building tool as an add-on

Originally I built my lists in InDesign, then discovered BattleScribe a few weeks ago. What I think I'm going to do is actually use both programs together. I'll use BattleScribe to calculate points and customize the list, then copy the text into InDesign to format the printed copy how I like it.

**Pacific**

If you could tell me
* What the product is called
* Any URL's you know
* What's great
* What's not great
* What you'd change if you had a magic wand

Army Builder, for Infinity, is by far the best interactive army builders I have ever used. Downloadable from 'Devil Team' (the producers) at http://www.devilteam.com/ or www.infinitythegame.com

Pros:
- Either accessible online, or you can download the program directly. Is free to use.
- Intuitive GUI, easy to find the forces/units, and calculates everything automatically. Gives information about army lists being legal or not legal. 'Drag and drop' units into a wastebin or move their position on a list, windows style.
- Full stats are also provided. Don't know what a skill does in the rules? Just click on it to connect to Infinity's online wiki page giving you the information for that rule.
- Updated by Corvus Belli, creators of the game. If rules are changed/updated, the army builder will update automatically next time you log in. You don't need to buy any printed materials, books/magazines to find rules, they are all accessible for free online.
- The program will work on Smart phones/tablets easily.
- Really cool presentation - a lot of army builders are just white text boxes. This one is officially supported, so has art from the game and official logos and trademarks. Lots of little cool touches with the presentation, like a loading bar and different backgrounds every time you log in.
- Save and load army lists using codes. Send your army list code to someone, and then can send one to you to instantly view the army list in full detail. You can even use them on the forum, and it will display the full army list in a well presented format.
- Comes with 4 European languages (I believe others are on their way)

Cons:
- Can seem a little bit busy/daunting to anyone not familiar with the game.
- Website occasionally crashes, or takes a very long time to load (not sure if this has been sorted since CB got new servers).

What I'd change:
- Might be nice to see some direct links to weapon special rules as well as character skills.
- Also, might be good to have a link to some kind of miniatures page. Yes, I know I can just look at the model gallery and find the model with that name, but I'm lazy.

**oni**

Best = BattleScribe

Free
Intuitive UI
Cross platform
Mobile version
Support

Worst = Army Builder

Overpriced
Archaic and outdated UI
No updates

**chromedog**

^The one downside of Army Infinity.

Its need for Adobe Air. And of the program clashes with certain updates (Air 3.2 specifically) which removes any print functionality and replaces it with " I'll just crash now, mmkay?".

Hence why I went back to pen and paper.

**ArbitorIan**

Isn't this a bit of an odd question? There are really only two options. Ok, so i prefer Battlescribe.

+ Free
+ Auto-updating datafiles
+ Mac friendly
+ Clear printouts
+ Easy to make your own files or edit others.
+ Ridiculously simple

- Accuracy is at the mercy of the data file author
- Some data files have more detail (stats, special rules) than others, depending on what the author could be bothered with.

I would add iPhone support, and maybe introduce a 'standard' 40k template to try and standardise detail and quality.

Worst? The WORST thing you can possibly use to write an army list?

I'd say Lemmings: Tribes on an Amiga 500. I've never been able to find a decent Dark Eldar list on it.

**Aerethan**

oni wrote:

Worst = Army Builder

Overpriced
Archaic and outdated UI
No updates

AB was updated June 9th. 40k was updated July 4th(6th edition update within a month). WFB updated May 8th. Seems up to date to me.

**BewareOfTom**

yeah, I prefer Armybuilder (v2.2 anyways) cause I got it free from a friend who bought it a while back. Tried battlescribe (it is quite good) but its not my cup of tea

**ShumaGorath**

I've only used Army Builder. It is the worst I have used. The vague concept of nothingness and or not making a list is the best.

**Tetsugaku**

This is hugely useful thanks very much everyone - I had't even heard of BattleScribe & it sounds like you're all very enthusiastic about it.

Army Builder for Infinity also sounds like it's worth a look - does it make a big difference to you all that the builder is themes around whatever army or game that you're building?

I've also heard about Army Creator Mobile - for Android - any users here? Or have you used it and ditched it?

How about Quartermaster for IOS? I've just downloaded it but yet to try it out and evaluate it.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
[quote=wraith[cs]]www.easyarmy.com

- cons are only for the super lazy that don't want to spend the time to input their own unit information. Like me.

**Aerethan**

For Army Builder, the data file updates are always good as they fix errors or glitches, and often update the files for whichever army book has been recently released. So those are quite important.

Updates to Army Builder itself are meh. The product doesn't have any inherent flaws so updates to it are usually for specific things like adding OSX compatibility.

**leohart**

Having a program that runs on all platforms (OSX, Windows, Linux, Android and iOS) is very important. It allows everyone to share their rosters via either email or tapping two phone together.

Players and TOs won't have to print tons of army lists just to throw them away afterward. And the army list of each participant can then be made available on the tournament website after the event.

Is it important for me to know what each rule and wargear do? No. I know them all by heart. But, it is important for the guy I am playing against to be able to see such information at a glance. I doubt this will ever happen without me inputting it manually in some way. It is simply illegal for anyone to upload detailed information and make it available for download.

Accuracy of the data file is of utmost importance. Rules information should point to the page in the book.

**pretre**

I've always just used Excel and army books.

**BewareOfTom**

Yeah, I could never get my head to wrap around excel.... I dunno just seems confusing to me :/

**pretre**

Column A - Unit Name
Column B - Upgrade Names
Column C - Points Values
Column D - Total of Points Values for Each Unit

Points - Top of the Page in D1 Kill/Victory Points - Top of Page in D2
There you go.