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Ok it says in the codex 4D6 armour pen, pretty clear, and in the FAQ it clarifies that every 6 on those 4D6 add another D3. Pretty nasty. However someone was saying that you get a further +3 armour pen for the base strength of the wep. So 3 + 4D6 (+D3 for any 6's), is that right? Its a strength X wep with the sniper rule, so not 100% if thats how it works, as if it does thats a potential armour pen of 39 (3 + 24 + 12)!

Yes that's right, page 42 "Sniper" states it counts as S3 against vehicles.

3+4(d6) is correct, I don't know about rending though.

All Sniper weapons have a Strength 3 against vehicles.

What about the rending? Is it +d3 strength for each 6 rolled on the 4D6?
That's a potential armour penetration of 3+24+12=39. Bahahaha.

Testify wrote:What about the rending? Is it +d3 strength for each 6 rolled on the 4D6?
That's a potential armour penetration of 3+24+12=39. Bahahaha.

That's right.
So 4 6's rolled would let you add 4 D3's

Yes, for every 6 you roll you get an additional D3 for a potential 39 for armour penetration.

Well thats just nasty @Testify its on the FAQ here:

http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m2420373a_Grey_Knights_6th_Ed_V1.pdf

Its about half way down page 4 in the right column.

So pretty much guaranteed to hit, potential of rolling up to 39 on armour pen, then 50% chance of destroying anything it pens.

66% if the target is open topped.

You do NOT get the +3 to armor penetration. Normal armor penetration is S+D6. The codex overrides this and tells you to simply roll 4D6. There's no basis for adding +3 anywhere. For comparison, the Melta special rule tells you to roll an additional D6 at half range at less; if the Turbo Penetrator wanted to take the sniper's S3 into consideration, it should tell you to roll an additional 3D6.

Besides, 4D6 is an average roll of 14 already, notwithstanding the potential extra D3s.

It has the Sniper Rule, permitting it a base Str of 3 vs vehicles. No where is this said to be disallowed for the vindicare, in the codex, rulebook or FAQ.

Yes, it has S3 against vehicles. I'm saying that doesn't enter into it, as armor pen is a flat 4D6 (plus potential D3s).

No where does it say this.

From the rulebook, Armour Penetration is given as "roll a D6 and add the weapon's Strength". Codex Grey Knights "A turbo-penetrator shot has an Armour Penetration of 4D6." So when you use a turbo-penetrator you replace "roll a D6 and add the weapon's Strength" with 4D6.

It does not say you replace anything. All it says is it has an AP of 4D6. AP being armour pen, not the AP1.

Never noticed that before, tgj. You are correct. It is similar to how Melta Bombs (used to) have an armour penetration of 8+2D6.

Happyjew wrote:Never noticed that before, tgj. You are correct. It is similar to how Melta Bombs (used to) have an armour penetration of 8+2D6.

This actually just made me look up the Armourbane special rule, which states that the model "rolls 2D6 for armour penetration", which - if read consistently - would make it a rather lousy special rule :/

Which means Witchblades have gotten even worse now...

I am fairly certain the 4D6/2D6 replace the normal D6 and you still get your Strength added in.

Yeah, necron warscythes would be terrible too. Heck i'd go so far as to say anything which gets bonus penetration dice would suddenly bite if one wanted to ignore the strength of the weapon; ironically with the possible exception of the vindicare himself as the +3 doesn't really add a lot to his shot...

There should be a tenet of YMDC that if your interpretation makes a rule 'far' more useless than beneficial when interpreting something that isn't supposed to be a drawback; you should try harder...

tgjensen wrote:From the rulebook, Armour Penetration is given as "roll a D6 and add the weapon's Strength". Codex Grey Knights "A turbo-penetrator shot has an Armour Penetration of 4D6." So when you use a turbo-penetrator you replace "roll a D6 and add the weapon's Strength" with 4D6.

You do know that this has always been ruled against your current view right?

This same argument is always raised and every time GW has ruled that its Str3+4D6(plus rending)

Oh, that extra 3 from the Sniper weapon str can help alot, let my signature attest to that.

Don't get me wrong i'm not saying it's useless (far from it in fact, i'm a big fan of the vindicare assassin too). Just that 4d6 is pretty unusual; most armorbane (and similarly ruled) weapons benefit from their strength more so than the Exitus weaponry.

Grey Templar wrote:You do know that this has always been ruled against your current view right?

This same argument is always raised and every time GW has ruled that its Str3+4D6(plus rending)

If I knew that I probably wouldn't have argued it. I did check the FAQ first though; when has GW ruled on it?

You want an even better one that makes it more confusing? It states clearly in the BRB that Rending adds an extra D3 to armor pen and makes the shot AP 2. The Exitus rifle is AP 1, but as per specifics of rending it sets to AP 2. So if you roll a 6 on any of the 4 dice you may pen easier, but your gun gets worse.

No, you gun is also AP1, as well as being AP2

4D6+3, rending on any and all 6s

PG 41 Rending:
Similarly, if a model makes a shooting attack with a weapon that has the Rending special rule, a To Wound roll of 6 wounds the automatically, regardless of toughness, and is resolved at AP 2.
In either case, against vehicles, each armour penetration roll of 6 allows a further D3 to be rolled, with the result added to the total.

I think the top one makes it AP 2 regardless that his gun is AP1

Also under the rule Sniper page 42

Against vehicles, Sniper weapons count as str 3

Actually it seems to be only To Wound rolls that are resolved at AP 2, so it wouldn't apply against vehicles.

So lets make this even more rediculous. So does the Vindi get a roll of the damage chart +2 from the sniper, then an aditional +1 per rending roll? So 4d6 rolles: 6,6,6,6 You get +6 on the damage chart converting into an auto explosion? The gun is AP1 rending is AP2.

Rending against NON VEHICLES is AP2.

The gun is AP1, so rending non-vehicels get hit at AP1 and 2. Not that this currently makes a difference

Goat - you have misread the rending rule. Rending gives +D3 to Armour Penetration, not any damage role

tgjensen wrote:

Grey Templar wrote:You do know that this has always been ruled against your current view right?

This same argument is always raised and every time GW has ruled that its Str3+4D6(plus rending)

If I knew that I probably wouldn't have argued it. I did check the FAQ first though; when has GW ruled on it?

It was in the DH codex FAQ and the GK FAQ(till the update for 6th, it appears to have been mistakenly deleted)

And when it was in the WH FAQ it was the same deal.