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This list is an all around list. Meant for fun games and mild competition. I feel it's pretty balanced and should be able to compete with most armies.

HQ
CCS - Grenade Launcher (3), Regimental Standard, OftF, Astropath
Total - 140 pts

ELITE
Hades Breaching Drill - 50 pts

TROOPS
PCS - Mortar, Grenade Launcher
Total - 40 pts
Infantry Squad - Commissar w/ Power Axe, Flamer, Sergeant w/ Power Axe, Mortar
Total - 110 pts
Infantry Squad (merged with first) - Sergeant w/ Power Axe, Flamer, Mortar
Total - 75 pts
PlasVets - 115 pts (attached to Vendetta)
PlasVets - 115 pts (attached to Vendetta)
Vet Squad (attached to Hades Drill) - Heavy Flamer, Flamers (2), Shotguns (7)
Total - 100 pts
Vet Squad -Grenade Launcher (3), Harker, Autocannon, Forward Sentries
Total - 180 pts

FAST ATTACK
Vendetta - 130 pts
Vendetta - 130 pts

HEAVY SUPPORT
Leman Russ Squadron - Demolisher (2), Heavy Flamer (2), Plasma Sponsons (2)
Total - 410 pts
Manticore - Heavy Flamer
Total - 160 pts
Manticore - Heavy Flamer
Total - 160 pts

FORTIFICATION
Aegis Defense Line - Quad Gun
Total - 100 pts

ARMY TOTAL - 2000 pts

I figured I would use the PCS to support the combined Infantry Squads, the whole blob sitting behind the aegis line, the CCS firing the Quad Gun, perhaps holding an objective, but also partly defending the Manitcores, which would be placed on either rear flank of the blob. They in turn could assist in supporting the blob with their heavy flamers should the need arise. The demolishers are used to wipe out heavy armor and armored infantry. Manticores just wipe out anything they can hit. Quad Gun and Vendettas deal with enemy air, Vendettas also can tank hunt and drop PlasVets where they are needed. Hades/Flamer unit hits large troop concentrations in the enemy rear and the Harker unit deploys on an objective or terrian piece(something with 4+ save) so they are sitting with a 2+ cover save and are just a pain in the enemy's ass. I went with Mortars to help thin out horde armies as they approach.

Anything I should change? Units I should swap in/out? Units that should be used differently? Really could use some feedback.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Is posting some experimental spam list or a new type of Deathstar unit the only way to get feedback? Annoying that 44 people have looked at it and not one could offer any advice or comments.

First Demolishers won't have a chance to get close enough to kill any heavy armor and Manticores are just too squishy. The core of IGs armor is the standard LRBT (and if your feeling frisky get a Lascannon on it). Keep it as far away from everything as you can and just pound the field with it. I run three and for 150 points each they are great.

2nd I would use more HW. Autocannons and Lascannons / Missle Luanchers (Missles do have skyfire). Snap shot is great with Autocannons as you can fire and move away at the same time and it's even better with orders making those HW twin linked on flyers or tanks/creatures. (They laughed when I had 2 MLs but twinlinked keeps the skysclear)

3rd the heavy flamer on troops is too expensive. It just doesn't have the kill to cost ratio I like. Also Chimeras are still useable just don't fill an army with them. They are great with Meltas / Plasma to charge across the map and get a big kill on a prime target and they are cheap as well.

Those opinions reflect how I play.

I like that you only have 2 Vendettas. I see too many IG players having 3 of them and or more. 2 should be max. Note on the squads that are in there. Don't put squads in there! For 20 points more you can have 2 5 man Stormtrooper squads with plasma guns and plasma pistols. They don't have as many wounds but they can Deepstrike and re-roll deepstrike, infiltrate, ect.

I like the use of grenade launchers and snipers. Too many people underestimate how great those are for guard. The cost to effect of the weps is great.

I think your CC blob is great for gumming up incoming attackers but you could add another commissar and just use power fists over power axes. Power fists are better and have better killing power just don't have them right up front.

Do explain about the hades breaching drills.

How are you getting them in this list?

Commissar - Thanks for all the input. I'll definitely take a look at the list and make some modifications. LRBT will probably replace the Demolishers, but I don't think I'll take the Stormtrooper squads. They have never performed for me when I used them.

Shank - Hades Breaching Drill is taken as an Elite choice in an Imperial Guard army. If you don't have Engineers, IG Veterans are used instead. I'm actually tempted to take a second one.

Commissar_Tiberius wrote:First Demolishers won't have a chance to get close enough to kill any heavy armor and Manticores are just too squishy. The core of IGs armor is the standard LRBT (and if your feeling frisky get a Lascannon on it). Keep it as far away from everything as you can and just pound the field with it. I run three and for 150 points each they are great.

Why do you say that? Demolishers don't have to move that far up to get within range of something and Manticores should be behind cover and not getting shot at. LRBT are awesome, but there is something to be said for S10 pie plates.

As far as the Demolishers, if it was me I would drop the sponsons and replace the hull weapon with a lascannon. You still retain AP2 but your tanks are now cheaper and better suited to busting open enemy armor of insta-killing models.

I'm not a guard pro but I feel like the grenades on the CCS aren't making the best use of the BS4, if they're just camping and giving out orders why not take an autocannon or something that gives them more range.

First of all, missiles do NOT have sky fire until a FAQ or codex is released giving you the option to buy the Flakk Missile upgrade. Regardless, I see a glaring lack of reliable anti-tank.
Presumptively, the Vendettas will be used as anti-flier/transport. The rest of your higher strength shooting is in templates. At BS3, most of the time you will scatter away. Sure you can argue that the plasma vets are anti-tank...No. They are not reliable. They could very well melt themselves! Drop the plasma sponsons. Huge point sink for something that can do hull points to the tanks. By dropping those, you can add (for example) HWT's will more efficient tank killing like AC and LC.

Revised List.....

HQ
CCS - Grenade Launcher, Regimental Standard, OftF, Astropath, Lascannon
Total - 145 pts

ELITE
Hades Breaching Drill - 50 pts

TROOPS
PCS - AutoCannon, Melta Bombs, Grenade Launcher (2)
Total - 55 pts
Infantry Squad - Commissar w/ Power Axe, Flamer, Sergeant w/ Power Fist, Mortar
Total - 115 pts
Infantry Squad (merged with first) - Sergeant w/ Power Fist, Flamer, Mortar
Total - 80 pts
Infantry Squad (merged with first) - Sergeant w/ Power Fist, Flamer, Mortar
Total - 80 pts
Heavy Weapons Squad - Lascannon (3)
Total - 105 pts
PlasVets - 115 pts (attached to Vendetta)
PlasVets - 115 pts (attached to Vendetta)
MeltaVets - 100 pts (attached to Drill)
Total - 100 pts
Vet Squad -Grenade Launcher (3), Harker, Heavy Bolter, Forward Sentries
Total - 180 pts

FAST ATTACK
Vendetta - 130 pts
Vendetta - 130 pts

HEAVY SUPPORT
Leman Russ Squadron - Demolisher (2)
Total - 330 pts
Manticore - Heavy Flamer
Total - 160 pts

FORTIFICATION
Aegis Defense Line - Quad Gun
Total - 100 pts

ARMY TOTAL - 2000 pts

So this list would have to be opponents permission kinda of thing then. Just curious cause I love the kreig models I have but can't use, just want to make sure I find out when FW comes official.

This is a good list overall. However I feel its lacking, I recently came up with a 2000 point list to face a friend that would give this list some trouble, think about all your armor being gone after first turn.
I feel like your points haven't been spread like the guard I run would be. But I run very gun line guard, kill them all before they reach you kind of guard.

Tanks make use of cover, so as not to die in turn 1. As I said, this is a list meant for general play, not specifically geared to face a friend or single army type. I feel it is decent for overall play.

Forgeworld units are normally sanctioned and their entries usually state if they are meant for 40K or Apoc games.

For regular games, yes, Forgeworld is fine. Tournaments, every TO is different in that ruling. I think this new list is a lot better..just don't get into tunnel tactics. By that I mean you have to remember to use each unit in its desired form to its highest potential. For me, I run very gunline and as a result really do not move my armor as much as say a mech or aggressive player would. As a result, I generally build my lists very static. But if you can manage having such a menagerie of units then by all means go for this list.

Barring the Plasma Sponsons on the Demolishers, I think that your first list was actually better. Don't underestimate the value of Manticores for anti-armor duty. Yeah, pie plate, scatter, yadda yadda. But remember, if any part of the template touches a vehicle, it's an S10 hit that doesn't use the front facing, and gets to roll 2D6 and take the highest for armor penetration. The Demolishers can pull of similar duty, and hell, the Vendetta might be the best anti-armor unit in the whole game.

No comment on the Breaching Drill, as I have absolutely no idea what it is. I kind of hope that it's what Shredder uses to Deep Strike onto the battlefield...

I didn't mind dropping one manticore in favor of some more ground troops and some lascannons. Gives me a little more anti tank and spreads the power around a bit.

Breaching drill is like the Tyranid Mawloc (i think that is the one that comes from under ground).....but instead it comes out of the ground from reserve with a st 10 AP 1 melta large blast where it emerges, \destroying any terrain that it comes up through and hitting vehicles on their side armor. On following turn, the vet squad you have attached can walk out of the hole and shoot/assault. After it emerges, the drill becomes a tank with an armor 11,10,10 and a melta cutter that shoots 12 inches, st 8, ap 1, 3 in blasst, melta. It's pretty nice for 50 points. Basically just causes a lot of damage for a turn or two.

Missles do have skyfire

I couldn't find that in the Guard FAQ. Flakk missiles are an upgrade, they don't come as standard. As far as I'm aware nobody has access to them yet, but I'd appreciate knowing if I'm wrong.

We agreed that after paying 75$ for the new book Missile Launchers have skyfire. Or you might as well just play 5th.

Well so long as you're happy with that, crack on. I don't think many competitions will be taking that view (though of course some may do so at the organisers' whim).

I'm curious why you're buying Forward sentries for the unit with Harker since he already grants them Stealth so unless Stealth from multiple sources has started stacking (which I was sure wasn't the case, you either have Stealth or you don't) then you are paying 30 points for Snare Mines.

Don't get me wrong Snare Mines are great if you attach them to a unit whose job is to get charged by the enemy and torch them with overwatching flamers (it's even better if the unit has Counter Attack as you not only deny the attackers their charge bonuses but can steal them for yourself). This is not a role I would have envisioned a unit with 3 GL and a HB fulfilling.

EDIT: Just noticed that the IG FAQ Changed Camo Cloaks to give +1 to cover saves instead of granting Stealth so I see why you did this now.

I'd be tempted to shift those 30 points to the Melta Vets and give them Demolitions. They're a suicide unit after all so tossing a Demo Charge at a unit of terminators or something could well be worth it and they can finish off any vehicle they don't outright kill with Melta Bombs.

Commissar_Tiberius wrote:We agreed that after paying 75$ for the new book Missile Launchers have skyfire. Or you might as well just play 5th.

Nobody agreed on this. Wait for the next codex.

Grinner100101 wrote:
Forgeworld units are normally sanctioned and their entries usually state if they are meant for 40K or Apoc games.

Where is it stated that Forgeworld units are sanctioned for regular play?
From GW, not FW,

Well Forge World is a baby company of GW so...Only in tournaments or TFG's really have a problem with 40k Approved stuff.

Well I play at a GW and most people don't have or ever seen forgeworld models. They won't admit it but their consensus is, they don't have it so you can't use it.

Why I'm hoping forgeworld becomes legal from GW word/FAQ.

And Hades drills aren't 40k approved, they just recently started doing that, though they should be after they update all the forgeworld stuff for 6thed.

riverhawks32 wrote:

Commissar_Tiberius wrote:We agreed that after paying 75$ for the new book Missile Launchers have skyfire. Or you might as well just play 5th.

Nobody agreed on this. Wait for the next codex.

The three most important people when it comes to 40k did. Me, myself, and I.

Rob451 wrote:I'm curious why you're buying Forward sentries for the unit with Harker since he already grants them Stealth so unless Stealth from multiple sources has started stacking (which I was sure wasn't the case, you either have Stealth or you don't) then you are paying 30 points for Snare Mines.

Don't get me wrong Snare Mines are great if you attach them to a unit whose job is to get charged by the enemy and torch them with overwatching flamers (it's even better if the unit has Counter Attack as you not only deny the attackers their charge bonuses but can steal them for yourself). This is not a role I would have envisioned a unit with 3 GL and a HB fulfilling.

EDIT: Just noticed that the IG FAQ Changed Camo Cloaks to give +1 to cover saves instead of granting Stealth so I see why you did this now.

I'd be tempted to shift those 30 points to the Melta Vets and give them Demolitions. They're a suicide unit after all so tossing a Demo Charge at a unit of terminators or something could well be worth it and they can finish off any vehicle they don't outright kill with Melta Bombs.

Ive used the Harker Suprise in a game, it was amusing. 10 guys with 2 heavy bolters and 3 plasmaguns infiltrating with a +2 to cover was a very fun, and very expensive unit.

First, before I even address the list

NO ONE in the community thinks ML's have skyfire, until it is in your codex, accept that we don't have it. If both opponents agree on it, then sure, but officially they aren't in game yet.

Now to pick apart the list. Respectfully, of course.

Grinner100101 wrote:Revised List.....

HQ
CCS - Grenade Launcher, Regimental Standard, OftF, Astropath, Lascannon
Grenade launcher is virtually useless. I don't care to argue about this with DakkaDakka, it just is. There's much better things for 5-10 more points. You can find them somewhere. Regimental standard is fine, but a little unimpressive to spend points on. OotF is decent, but can end up wasted if your opponents don't use reserves. Astropath is wasted points now. Everything comes in on a 3+ turn 2. Only thing I like is the Lascannon. Get a vox instead of the GL

ELITE
Hades Breaching Drill
Solid option. Anyone that gives you trouble is a TFG, FW released FAQ's for FW stuff to be used in 6th edition, and GW endorsed FW use in Tourneys.

TROOPS
PCS - AutoCannon, Melta Bombs, Grenade Launcher (2)
Again, Grenade Launcher is yucky. Steer clear of them. Autocannon is tight, I'd plop this squad next to your CCS and HWS so the HWS or PCS take Bring it down orders, (alongside a lascannon blob) reliably popping transports (and even flyers). Melta bombs is blah on a squad that wants to get good use out of Heavy Weapons.


Infantry Squad - Commissar w/ Power Axe, Flamer, Sergeant w/ Power Fist, Mortar

Infantry Squad (merged with first) - Sergeant w/ Power Fist, Flamer, Mortar

Infantry Squad (merged with first) - Sergeant w/ Power Fist, Flamer, Mortar
Your commissar is the only one that can take a power fist. Even then, I wouldn't bother with the commissar.Sit this 30 man blob behind the Aegis with Lascannons (Or AC's) and Flamers (With a Vox). Blobs like that do work, and the flamer is at least decent overwatch if they do get charged.

Heavy Weapons Squad - Lascannon (3)
Good choice; autocannons make solid alternatives (Especially if you're fielding Vendettas)

PlasVets (attached to Vendetta)
PlasVets (attached to Vendetta)
I run an aircav list, and even then I'd rather have troops on the ground than in a Vendetta. Having great troops in there like plasvets encourages you to drop them off asap, which means either forcing you to hover (which makes your flyer a magnet for AT-fire.) or Move flat out to grav-chute insert them, which can F up and make the squad take unnecessary casualties, not to mention wasting a turn of Vendetta shooting. Codex: IG has access to one of the best transports, and Plasmavets work amazing with them. Utilize this.
MeltaVets (attached to Drill)
Very cool. Exciting to see more of these in 6th.

Vet Squad -Grenade Launcher (3), Harker, Heavy Bolter, Forward Sentries
I don't care for Harker, but if you desperately need an infiltrating squad, Heavy bolter is decent, but I'd take plasma on them instead. GL's aren't very killy for a squad that's gunna attract a lot of attention. Forward Sentries are also redundant, so none of that. Taking you from a 4+ save to a 3+ isn't really worth it, considering if an enemy wants a 10 man squad of t3 dead, he'll make it happen.

FAST ATTACK
Vendetta
Vendetta
Great FA slot options

HEAVY SUPPORT
Leman Russ Squadron - Demolisher (2)
If you insist on running two of these, split them up. Two shooting at the same target is overkill. Two in general is overkill, but I suppose that's up to you.That's 165 points that could do a lot better elsewhere. (Chimeras for your CCS and Vets)

Manticore - Heavy Flamer
Solid. The flamer is a personal preference thing.

FORTIFICATION
Aegis Defense Line - Quad Gun
Great option for guard, Quad gun is decent, but a hydra squadron is something to think about if you can get rid of that Demolisher. Then you can make room for a Comm's relay, which is excellent. If you do keep the Quad Gun, keep your CCS next to it so one of the vets can use his BS4 to fire it.

ARMY TOTAL - 2000 pts

Overall, head in the right place, but I'm guessing you need some IG play under your belt to figure out quirks and playstyles compatible with the codex.

Wow.. if that breaching drill is what you say it is, that's.. borderline slowed. And I thought Marbo was good. Why would anyone ever use Marbo with this available?

I dunno if I'd agree to play against those drills.

Anyway, your list looks great. I'm sad to see your list revision lost a manticore. How come? Not a fan of the Harker/vets squad with grenade launchers. You have tons of troops as is. You can probably scratch that whole squad and some of the weapons on CCS and PCS squads. If you have all those advisors, you probably want to keep them out of sight. This will give you enough points to put that manticore back in, and another one of those drills if you want. Or Marbo.

If FW is allowed at tournaments I will take a Breching drills. Hands down. Best 50ea points spent. a STr 10 Ap 1 bast, wow.

Edit: I didnt see that it it can only be taken once. Damn.

I used the drills at wargamescon
And they are amazing

But there strength isnt their strength lol
It's the fact they, oh hey your in terrain-well not anymore its gone, oh and you guys die.
It's a very good unit that can very quickly through your enemy for a loop.

They move up halfway through the board and then you come in behind them, they have to decide where to go.
It is a very good unit that is helped by the tactics you can use with it.

So, if i read the rules right, I buy a Drill and and attach a squad of vets to it. Then i can keep attaching vets to it and they all arrive turn 3 while the drill arrives turn 2? So if I attach 3 squads of vets to it they all arrive turn 3?

Even if they don't I will be buying this model if its allowed in Tournements and in standard games, as in there is official GW statements saying that they can be used.

Yes that's correct.
But if your enemy is within an inch of the hole etc they can't come out.
So a good opponent will know how to counter the drills very easy to do.
Althought some armies are very screwed against the drills.
Any more drills then about 3-5is very overkill in a 2k point game

We did team tournament and had some games where we were doing horrible and then the drills come in and completely change the battle.
It's like 18manticore missiles direct hitting where they need to, kinda change.

So you can buy more then one drill. Okay. I'm going to get 2.