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What have you guys been finding in regards to C:SM Rifleman Dreads in 6th? The math says that they got stronger for killing vehicles AV10/11, however it drops off to being worse than how they were in 5th when shooting at AV12/13. Note that I'm looking at the data in terms of one turn in shooting, but when you factor in a second turn of shooting, AV12 is weaker against Riflemans than in 5th, and AV10/11 is almost guaranteed to be dead after a second turn of shooting.

Considering that it's also much easier for Dreads to get cover, and they can no longer be suppressed, I can still see these guys being used. The math also says they're much more resilient against Krak missiles when in cover compared to 5th until they take about 6 missiles.

Thoughts?

Riflemen always were viable, even the non GK versions and nothing has really changed this in 6th. They are better in some areas and worse in others. The other thing you missed was that they are passable anti air units, without resorting to your own flier/s or a fort of some kind twin linked weapons are your best bet, and T/L S7 or 8 is pretty much perfect for anti air.

I never really liked them much in 5th, but played a couple yesterday in a 6E game and they were surprisingly effective. I think close combat dreads for a lot worse with the grenades, powerfists glancing to death, meltabombs, etc... so dreads are pretty much shooting platforms now. Once you decide that dreads are for long range shooting, the rifleman looks pretty good.

-Myst

as Myst said. CC dreads are next to worthless now so shooty dreads are going to be the only way to go.
Rifleman are still about where i thought they always were. I dont think they are great but they arent bad. Psyrifles are great, the extra strength puts them over the top.

They are about the same.

Stunns don't cause damage chart rolls anymore, but Hull points mean that it takes less glances and pens to destroy a vehicle. Before you could penetrate a LR all day long and roll nothing but 1s an 2s for no actual damage. Now 4 such damage results will kill the LR garunteed.

The same applies to all the targets for the Riflemen Dred. One riflemen will cause about 2 damage results per round to AV11 and AV10. Thats 2/3 of the way to a wreck already.

My ironclad dreads are still rocking the house, maybe if you didn't run internet list dreads things would be fine for you.

Everything still works in 6th that did in 5th, except outflanking and reserve assaults and being able to melee all vehicles. Though killing ground vehicles got much easier in melee.

juraigamer wrote:My ironclad dreads are still rocking the house, maybe if you didn't run internet list dreads things would be fine for you.

Everything still works in 6th that did in 5th, except outflanking and reserve assaults and being able to melee all vehicles. Though killing ground vehicles got much easier in melee.

How is this helpful? No offense, but the OP didnt ask about ironclads, didn't ask about internet lists, didn't imply that things weren's working for him, and didn't ask about everything in 5th compared to 6th. He asked about how riflemen dreads have been working in 6th. Would be nice if you had something to comment on topic. That's nice that ironclads are working for you, I don't see how that applies to this conversation at all. Did you have a technique for using them to fill the role of a riflemen maybe? Just trying to figure out why you posted here with such attitude and such little substance.

-Myst

Don't be so hard on him, it looks like it was just food for thought. At least he wasn't talking about recupere

Jura was responding to the idea that CC dreads are now worthless. Because Dakka doesn't have a tree system for threads, it can be difficult to tell what ideas a post is responding to. In this case, he is clearly trying to address the idea that CC dreads are bad. AV13 means that Krak Grenades don't do anything, so you only have to worry about Fists which is exactly what it was like in 5th. You are also less likely to get an Immobilized result so the worry about getting hit on rear armor isn't that big of a deal.

AV12 Dreads in CC have gotten weaker, but even then, I don't think that Krak spells their doom. 10 marines put out about 1 glance per round against AV12. This gives you enough time to rescue them or is plenty of time for a BlenderDread to carve through the marines.

ok, I apologize.

So the consensus is non-Ironclad dreads got significantly weaker in close combat, but were strengthened slightly against shooting. Seems to indicate that regular dreads are more firmly into the shooting role, and ironclads are more firmly into the close-range close-combat role.

-Myst

I'm of the view that Dreads are shooty. I've used mine to tie up squads I didn't want to fight, but I'm not going to pretend they're actually good at fighting.

I have 4 riflemen, and 2 multi-melta/heavy flamer dreadnoughts. The riflemen get more table time.

Shooty got better in 6th ed, and autocannons got better in 6th ed. Therefore, something that shoots autocannons got better in 6th ed.

They may be less likely to outright destroy something with a single shot, but with 4 hits being the most likely result of any given round of shooting, you're going to be putting down an awful lot of glances on stuff.

I wasnt' all that big on riflemen before (and I still think they're inferior to at least one of the arms being an assault cannon), but if you were borderline thinking of using them before, I'd definitely use them now.

with quad guns thous you really have to ask yourself how useful an autocannon dread is. A quadgun is cheaper and indestructable. It also has skyfire and intercept.

Exergy wrote:with quad guns thous you really have to ask yourself how useful an autocannon dread is. A quadgun is cheaper and indestructable. It also has skyfire and intercept.

I thought it was T7 with 2 wounds.

Yeah, they have wounds and toughness.

Not to mention you can have 2 at most, and only if you are using 2 FoCs(so 2 HQs and 4 troops)

It's also static, so it can be denied LOS.

Exergy wrote:A quadgun is cheaper and indestructable.

Wait what? Aren't quad guns just treated as standard artillery, so T7 3+ save etc?

In any case its not really a useful comparison because you can only buy a single quad gun in any case, and its pretty easy for several Marine variants to take 6 of them. They also aren't mobile which is a pretty major factor.

Powerguy wrote:

Exergy wrote:A quadgun is cheaper and indestructable.

Wait what? Aren't quad guns just treated as standard artillery, so T7 3+ save etc?

In any case its not really a useful comparison because you can only buy a single quad gun in any case, and its pretty easy for several Marine variants to take 6 of them. They also aren't mobile which is a pretty major factor.

Nope. There are rules for it in the terrain section under battlefield guns. It is T7 with W2. I have to doublecheck this, but I think it also must be manned by someone who can shoot it, meaning they can be killed as well. If you look at the terrain setup rules in detail, fortifications are set up before terrain, so what happens here is the opponent just puts a big line of sight blocking terrain in front of it. We've had to house rule the board setup so the table gets set up first and then the fotifications since we think that's how it will have to work in a tournament. Anyway, if you play it wit foritifications first, the enemy can block your LOS. If you get the diagonal board set-up, there could also be problems with range. For example, I had one yesterday with it as far up in the deployment zone as possible, and was still unable to intercept enemy flyers because they came on more than 48" away.

Main problems seem to be limitation of # of guns, resiliency, needs for troops to sit with it, inability to move, and line of sight.

-Myst

The flyers have to finish their move within 48'', it is not where they start it. It is quite likely you will get some form of LoS.
In terms of the ADL I suspect you will get modified models in tournaments with quad guns on stands et cetera.

Depends on where the quad gun is. 48" isn't huge.

I have multiple times brought my Flyer in out of range of Quad Guns(yay for premeasuring!)


If you are playing long ways, its difficult to find the blind spot, but on the other two types it is easy to avoid a Quad gun. The lascannon is what's difficult to avoid.

I will say that Nids are having a much easier time with Dreads (CC or Shooting) in 6th then we ever did in 5th. Considering we just need glances now I can actully count on some of my shooting to do some damge even if I just glance. And now that templates just have to partial hit I am learning that podded in Fexes with as little as bioplasma will make it pretty certain that the dread will be dead that turn.

As for quad-guns. I am not liking them as much as I like the ILC for my Nid lines. The S7 is not that great and I can already do some rerolling with my tyrant buffs. At least the BS4 means I should hit most times.

And then there is always OM. It is my new best friend.