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Ok I am sure I am blind but I ready the brb twice now, even got a version from online so i could search through the text for every case of "10" and "double". I see a lot of cases where it says something like "A Smash Attack also doubles the model's Strength (to a maximum of l0)" but I can't find the file of 10 like in the old brb... I must be missing something... I am looking specifically at the fire prism's combined fire in this case where it's rule (including faq) doesn't say anything about max 10.

It implies this rule but I cannot find where it actually states this limit, or a limit preventing stats from going above 10 as a general rule...

Rulebook p2, 'Modifiers'.

Thanks. Like I said I am sure I am blind.
Comment to self, adobe need to work on searching pdfs and get a new prescription for glasses.

jegsar wrote:adobe need to work on searching pdfs

Adobe have that function, illegal scans can't make use of it.

Illegal scans CAN make use of it - it's just that most of them are created as image scans assembled into pdf - and not text searchable documents.

It all depends on the OCR and the amount of time they wish to spend on it doing the job.

I'm good with my paper books, reading on a monitor is bad for you'r eyes.

The index in the back of the (legal) paper version makes searching easy.

Even if it never says what unit type a trygon prime is.

HoverBoy wrote:I'm good with my paper books, reading on a monitor is bad for you'r eyes.

Who said that?!!

::flails around blindly::

Just the one psychic power allows for strength over 10 when it states that the strength is equal to the roll of 2D6 and on an 11 or 12 the model is removed.....

Cant remember the exact wording of the power but it is the only thing I can think of that allows for over 10 strength.

No it doesnt allow over S10, because it does not specifically state you can.

S10 is the maximum, as stated on the Characteristics page of the rulebook.

nosferatu1001 wrote:No it doesnt allow over S10, because it does not specifically state you can.

S10 is the maximum, as stated on the Characteristics page of the rulebook.

Ok so what does it mean then when the psichic power says the following:

"Warp Charge 1- It is a focused witchfire power with 18" range. Roll 2d6. The target model suffers a hit with a strength equal to the result ( a score of an 11 or 12 wounds automatically or in the case of a vehicle, causes an automatic penetrating hit) with an AP equal to the result of a separate d6 roll."

It means that the maximum strength you can hit with that power is 10, but if you score higher than that you automatically wound/penetrate. Rolling an 11/12 is not resolved at strength 11/12 but automatically wounds/penetrates. If you hit a Landraider with that and roll an 11 and resolved it at strength 11 you would have to roll a 3 to penetrate. But with this rule you automatically penetrate. It strengthens the claim that the highest strength is 10, even with a specific psychic power.

40k-noob wrote:

nosferatu1001 wrote:No it doesnt allow over S10, because it does not specifically state you can.

S10 is the maximum, as stated on the Characteristics page of the rulebook.

Ok so what does it mean then when the psichic power says the following:

"Warp Charge 1- It is a focused witchfire power with 18" range. Roll 2d6. The target model suffers a hit with a strength equal to the result ( a score of an 11 or 12 wounds automatically or in the case of a vehicle, causes an automatic penetrating hit) with an AP equal to the result of a separate d6 roll."

Please find where it *specifies* that an 11 or 12 is S11 or S12? It doesnt, meaning it cannot overrule the basic rules for Characteristics.

Captain Antivas wrote:It means that the maximum strength you can hit with that power is 10, but if you score higher than that you automatically wound/penetrate. Rolling an 11/12 is not resolved at strength 11/12 but automatically wounds/penetrates. If you hit a Landraider with that and roll an 11 and resolved it at strength 11 you would have to roll a 3 to penetrate. But with this rule you automatically penetrate. It strengthens the claim that the highest strength is 10, even with a specific psychic power.

interesting, so this part "Roll 2d6. The target model suffers a hit with a strength equal to the result.. " doesn't actually mean what it says?!?

Instead we are to assume it means something like this:

"Roll 2d6. The target model suffers a hit with a strength equal to the result, so long as it is between 2-10, roll to wound or penetrate armor as normal, however if you get lucky and roll an 11 or 12, you dont get to hit the target with Strength 11 or 12, so we are allowing for that result to just magically wound or penetrate the armor of the target....."

is that what you are saying?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

nosferatu1001 wrote:

40k-noob wrote:

nosferatu1001 wrote:No it doesnt allow over S10, because it does not specifically state you can.

S10 is the maximum, as stated on the Characteristics page of the rulebook.

Ok so what does it mean then when the psichic power says the following:

"Warp Charge 1- It is a focused witchfire power with 18" range. Roll 2d6. The target model suffers a hit with a strength equal to the result ( a score of an 11 or 12 wounds automatically or in the case of a vehicle, causes an automatic penetrating hit) with an AP equal to the result of a separate d6 roll."

Please find where it *specifies* that an 11 or 12 is S11 or S12? It doesnt, meaning it cannot overrule the basic rules for Characteristics.

Roll 2d6. The target model suffers a hit with a strength equal to the result

What does that mean?

40k-noob wrote:

nosferatu1001 wrote:No it doesnt allow over S10, because it does not specifically state you can.

S10 is the maximum, as stated on the Characteristics page of the rulebook.

Ok so what does it mean then when the psichic power says the following:

"Warp Charge 1- It is a focused witchfire power with 18" range. Roll 2d6. The target model suffers a hit with a strength equal to the result ( a score of an 11 or 12 wounds automatically or in the case of a vehicle, causes an automatic penetrating hit) with an AP equal to the result of a separate d6 roll."

It means exactly what it says: the Strength goes from 2-10(since the lowest you can roll on 2d6 is a 2); then, if you roll an 11 or a 12, there is no Strength, the model just takes an auto wound or an Auto Penetrating hit(meaning loss of Hull point and damage roll).

You still never go above Strength 10, or were you thinking that somehow you get the auto-wound/pen; then you take a Strength 11 or 12 hit as well? That is not how the power works; results of 11 and 12 are dictated as replacements for the normal to-wound/Penetrate rolls.

Kommissar Kel wrote:

40k-noob wrote:

nosferatu1001 wrote:No it doesnt allow over S10, because it does not specifically state you can.

S10 is the maximum, as stated on the Characteristics page of the rulebook.

Ok so what does it mean then when the psichic power says the following:

"Warp Charge 1- It is a focused witchfire power with 18" range. Roll 2d6. The target model suffers a hit with a strength equal to the result ( a score of an 11 or 12 wounds automatically or in the case of a vehicle, causes an automatic penetrating hit) with an AP equal to the result of a separate d6 roll."

It means exactly what it says: the Strength goes from 2-10(since the lowest you can roll on 2d6 is a 2); then, if you roll an 11 or a 12, there is no Strength, the model just takes an auto wound or an Auto Penetrating hit(meaning loss of Hull point and damage roll).

You still never go above Strength 10, or were you thinking that somehow you get the auto-wound/pen; then you take a Strength 11 or 12 hit as well? That is not how the power works; results of 11 and 12 are dictated as replacements for the normal to-wound/Penetrate rolls.

Haha, I am sorry but you are telling me that:
This " Roll 2d6. The target model suffers a hit with a strength equal to the result" equal this "the Strength goes from 2-10(since the lowest you can roll on 2d6 is a 2); then, if you roll an 11 or a 12, there is no Strength"

Clearly the two are not the same.

40k-noob wrote:

Kommissar Kel wrote:

40k-noob wrote:

nosferatu1001 wrote:No it doesnt allow over S10, because it does not specifically state you can.

S10 is the maximum, as stated on the Characteristics page of the rulebook.

Ok so what does it mean then when the psichic power says the following:

"Warp Charge 1- It is a focused witchfire power with 18" range. Roll 2d6. The target model suffers a hit with a strength equal to the result ( a score of an 11 or 12 wounds automatically or in the case of a vehicle, causes an automatic penetrating hit) with an AP equal to the result of a separate d6 roll."

Haha, I am sorry but you are telling me that:
This " Roll 2d6. The target model suffers a hit with a strength equal to the result" equal this "the Strength goes from 2-10(since the lowest you can roll on 2d6 is a 2); then, if you roll an 11 or a 12, there is no Strength"

No, but what the rule actually says is above. Notice the part in parentheses that tells you what to do if you roll an 11 or 12. What you are quoting is a part of a sentence taken out of context to prove your point. Like I say all the time, context is everything. If the rule said only what you are quoting then you would be right. But, since it doesn't and tells you how to handle an 11 or 12 then you are wrong. Unless you would like to have to roll a 3 to penetrate a Soul Grinder's front armor, or a 4 against a Landraider, by all means play the rule the way you want to. I would rather play it as it is written and get a free penetrating hit against a Soul Grinder on a roll of 11 and walk away happy.

40k-noob wrote:

Haha, I am sorry but you are telling me that:
This " Roll 2d6. The target model suffers a hit with a strength equal to the result" equal this "the Strength goes from 2-10(since the lowest you can roll on 2d6 is a 2); then, if you roll an 11 or a 12, there is no Strength"

Clearly the two are not the same.

Haha, I am telling you that the Parenthetical Alters the sentence.

If you don't read the Parenthetical, that is the bit between the two crescent-shaped symbols that look like this: (), then you will have your false belief that you have a strength of 11 or 12.

But if you do read the Parenthetical, and know that those words modify or define the most immediate subject prior to them within the sentence, then you will clearly see that the results of 11 or 12 Only result in the Auto-wound/penetrate.

It might seem like a highly weird idea, but couldn't you say that the power has a set modifier? what is the power's strength? nothing until you roll the 2d6. As a modifier, it can only go to str 10, and they have kindly provided what happens if you roll an eleven or twelve.

SCvodimier wrote:It might seem like a highly weird idea, but couldn't you say that the power has a set modifier? what is the power's strength? nothing until you roll the 2d6. As a modifier, it can only go to str 10, and they have kindly provided what happens if you roll an eleven or twelve.

I would prefer to follow the very clear RAW.

Kommissar Kel wrote:

SCvodimier wrote:It might seem like a highly weird idea, but couldn't you say that the power has a set modifier? what is the power's strength? nothing until you roll the 2d6. As a modifier, it can only go to str 10, and they have kindly provided what happens if you roll an eleven or twelve.

I would prefer to follow the very clear RAW.

What is in the parentheses says absolutely nothing about the strength of the hit. It merely states that on a roll of 11 or 12 then the HIT wounds automatically or penetrates armor automatically, that is it, that is all it says.

The Strength of said hit is defined by result of the Roll period, nothing else.

The RAW is very clear. " Roll 2d6. The target model suffers a hit with a strength equal to the result..."

There is nothing ambiguous there, it is clear that what comes up on those 2 dice is what the strength of the hit is. Would a result of 11 or 12 conflict with a different section of the rulebook, yes it seems that it would but that does not change the meaning of that statement.

Yep, and since the Hit is an auto wound/Penetrate; the Strength of the hit is a moot point. I t will not even cause ID on a T1 Model because the Auto-wound replaces the Strength.

The Parenthetical redefines the results of 11 and 12, the Strength of the hit is as rolled for a 2-10, then the Parenthetical tells us that a result of 11 or 12 is simply an auto wound(defining the result of 11 or 12 in no uncertain terms).

You are correct there is nothing ambiguous about the rule; there is, however, those that do not understand what a parenthetical does.

Kommissar Kel wrote:Yep, and since the Hit is an auto wound/Penetrate; the Strength of the hit is a moot point. I t will not even cause ID on a T1 Model because the Auto-wound replaces the Strength.

The Parenthetical redefines the results of 11 and 12, the Strength of the hit is as rolled for a 2-10, then the Parenthetical tells us that a result of 11 or 12 is simply an auto wound(defining the result of 11 or 12 in no uncertain terms).

You are correct there is nothing ambiguous about the rule; there is, however, those that do not understand what a parenthetical does.

No it does not, you are adding your interpretation of the rules, "wounds automatically" does not mean the hit has no strength. It just means you do not need to roll to wound.

and a roll of 12 would ID an toughness 6 model unless it also had EW.

40k-noob wrote:and a roll of 12 would ID an toughness 6 model unless it also had EW.

That is not true, as only "Attacks and Wounds are the only characteristics that can be raised above 10." P.2

The Strength of the hit can never be raised above 10, so if you roll 11 or 12, you count it as 10, since that is the max strength score something can have.

How many times do I have to say the same thing.


The words in the Parenthesis define and/or modify the subject of the 2d6 roll.

The words in this parentheses clearly state that a result of 11 or 12(on this 2d6 roll for Strength) results in an auto wound/pen.

Since a to-wound roll comparing Strength to Toughness is normally required to cause a wound, and the defining remarks do not state that the Strength value is still relevant; the entirety of the Strength is ignored by the auto-wound.

Same goes for Armour Penetration, Strength is normally required in addition to a roll; but in this case the strength is ignored as it Auto-pens.

Your attempted reading will result in the model taking both a Wound/Pen and then taking a Strength 11 or 12 hit on top of that(so likely 2 Wounds or Pens).

Kommissar Kel wrote:How many times do I have to say the same thing.


The words in the Parenthesis define and/or modify the subject of the 2d6 roll.

The words in this parentheses clearly state that a result of 11 or 12(on this 2d6 roll for Strength) results in an auto wound/pen.

Since a to-wound roll comparing Strength to Toughness is normally required to cause a wound, and the defining remarks do not state that the Strength value is still relevant; the entirety of the Strength is ignored by the auto-wound.

Same goes for Armour Penetration, Strength is normally required in addition to a roll; but in this case the strength is ignored as it Auto-pens.

Your attempted reading will result in the model taking both a Wound/Pen and then taking a Strength 11 or 12 hit on top of that(so likely 2 Wounds or Pens).

It depends, how many times do you want to be wrong?

What s in the parentheses does not redefine the subject, it adds to it. it merely relieves the player of having to roll to wound or penetrate that is all it does. It does not change the result of the 2d6 roll in any way.

/me rolls dice to find strength of the psychic attack
/me rolls an 11, omg max strength is 10, this breaks the rules, omg what do I do, what do I do?
/me realises that the rules on what to do in this situation are written, right there, telling me exactly what to do in this exception, apply an automatic wound instead.
/me looks sheepish for not reading the whole sentence before panicing

40k-noob wrote:

Kommissar Kel wrote:How many times do I have to say the same thing.


The words in the Parenthesis define and/or modify the subject of the 2d6 roll.

The words in this parentheses clearly state that a result of 11 or 12(on this 2d6 roll for Strength) results in an auto wound/pen.

Since a to-wound roll comparing Strength to Toughness is normally required to cause a wound, and the defining remarks do not state that the Strength value is still relevant; the entirety of the Strength is ignored by the auto-wound.

Same goes for Armour Penetration, Strength is normally required in addition to a roll; but in this case the strength is ignored as it Auto-pens.

Your attempted reading will result in the model taking both a Wound/Pen and then taking a Strength 11 or 12 hit on top of that(so likely 2 Wounds or Pens).

It depends, how many times do you want to be wrong?

What s in the parentheses does not redefine the subject, it adds to it. it merely relieves the player of having to roll to wound or penetrate that is all it does. It does not change the result of the 2d6 roll in any way.

So you believe you get 2 hits for the cost of 1 when you roll an 11 or a 12?

Because if the 11 or 12 in simply an automatic wound/pen added to the strength of the hit , then you still have the Strength 11 or 12 hit to resolve.

Or you can read what it says and learn how it is applied and the roll of 11 or 12 has nothing at all to do with Strength since the Parenthetical redefines what those rolls mean.

In other words, you have no argument, you are just screaming that I am wrong(when in fact it is you that are wrong), and that is all I have to say.

maxcarrion wrote:/me rolls dice to find strength of the psychic attack
/me rolls an 11, omg max strength is 10, this breaks the rules, omg what do I do, what do I do?
/me realises that the rules on what to do in this situation are written, right there, telling me exactly what to do in this exception, apply an automatic wound instead.
/me looks sheepish for not reading the whole sentence before panicing

/me targets Warboss on bike
/me rolls an 12, omg max strength is 10, this breaks the rules, omg what do I do, what do I do?
/me realises that the rules on what to do in this situation are written, right there, telling me exactly what to do in this exception, apply an automatic wound instead.
/me looks at back at physic power to confirm, yup Strength is equal to result of roll, which means Warboss is Insta-killed.
/me jumps for joy!!


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Kommissar Kel wrote:

40k-noob wrote:

Kommissar Kel wrote:How many times do I have to say the same thing.


The words in the Parenthesis define and/or modify the subject of the 2d6 roll.

The words in this parentheses clearly state that a result of 11 or 12(on this 2d6 roll for Strength) results in an auto wound/pen.

Since a to-wound roll comparing Strength to Toughness is normally required to cause a wound, and the defining remarks do not state that the Strength value is still relevant; the entirety of the Strength is ignored by the auto-wound.

Same goes for Armour Penetration, Strength is normally required in addition to a roll; but in this case the strength is ignored as it Auto-pens.

Your attempted reading will result in the model taking both a Wound/Pen and then taking a Strength 11 or 12 hit on top of that(so likely 2 Wounds or Pens).

It depends, how many times do you want to be wrong?

What s in the parentheses does not redefine the subject, it adds to it. it merely relieves the player of having to roll to wound or penetrate that is all it does. It does not change the result of the 2d6 roll in any way.

So you believe you get 2 hits for the cost of 1 when you roll an 11 or a 12?

Because if the 11 or 12 in simply an automatic wound/pen added to the strength of the hit , then you still have the Strength 11 or 12 hit to resolve.

Or you can read what it says and learn how it is applied and the roll of 11 or 12 has nothing at all to do with Strength since the Parenthetical redefines what those rolls mean.

In other words, you have no argument, you are just screaming that I am wrong(when in fact it is you that are wrong), and that is all I have to say.

No where in the rule does it imply 2 hits nor have I made any such inference. I have no idea where you are getting 2 hits from.