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Hello Everyone,

General Chaos here with the State of the Waaagh! address. Assaults are dead! Well lets back that up, they are not dead but they took a big kick in the tail end for us Ork players. Multi-Assaults suffer losing that extra attack, getting Bolter shells in the face from overwatch can really hurt in assaults, and without some very specific movement and placement losing that all important Power Klaw Nob can be devastating. Makes me want to take my Choppa and go home. But us Orks are good at one thing besides Krumpin' ead' and that is we can adapt.

So everyone pretty much agrees that 6th edition is all about the movement phase and the shooting phase. The new wound allocation rules, rapid fire, snapfire, and overwatch spells that out. But that's actually good news cause Orks shooting is all about MOAR' DAKKA'! Here are some units that scream Mor' Dakka!

Shoota Boyz - A Mob of 30 Ork boyz with shootas and 3 Big Shootas can dump out 54 strength 4 and 9 strength 5 shots at 18" then charge or just stand there and let someone charge you and overwatch all that Dakka! Then even if they do get into you let them try shoving 30 Orks off an objective with the new fearless rules.

Lootas - These guys just got better in this edition all the way around. They can now move and still snap-fire. While I don't recommend this but, if you put a Mega-Armour Warboss in with them he'll pass his Slow and Purposeful rule onto the squad. Also am not in the MSU 5 man unit of Lootas. I like 15 of these guys. You want an answer to fliers? I give you 15 to 45 strength 7 shots with a 48" range.

Tankbustas - The new FAQ made these guys actually worth taking. You only have to fire at a vehicle if there is one in range and in line of sight otherwise you can fire where you want. 15 strength 8 rokkits are nothing to sneeze at.

Burna Boyz - While I don't really consider them in the Moar' Dakka category. I dare you to charge the Burna-wagon now. With the new overwatch rules your gunna have D3 x 15 hits coming your way.

Dakka-Jet - This things Epic. A flier with 9 twin-linked strength 6 shots at BS 3. That on a Waaagh! gets 18 shots! Yes please. Make sure you take the Fighter Ace upgrade so you can shoot your opponents Fliers at BS 3 also. Go get three now. I've never took a Weirdboy before but having chances for multiple Waaagh! could be very appealing.

Deffkoptas - They got a nerfed and a buffed. The usual role was to get the first turn assault with a Buzzsaw or to outflank and assault some vehicles in the backfield. Well those days are gone. But what did we get? A solid toughness 5 so no more doubling out with strength 8 missiles. Jink gives them a chance to dodge the AP 3 missile launchers. And they can re-group if they fail leadership unless they are under 25% of the unit size. While a bit pricey, a unit of 5 with just the twin-linked Big Shootas can drop out 15 shots.

Looted Wagon with Boom Gun - One of my favorite units and they got much better. Taking them with Boomgun, two big shootas, and 'Ard Case is a steal for 125 points. We maybe not a steal but, man they are fun. Now that blasts are not half strength for anymore they can pound some transports. Remember they are Ordnance 1 so you can roll two dice and pick the highest. Orks throwing around AP 3 large blasts at 36" will make some MEQ's cry. Also with the new weapon destroyed results you have to randomly roll which weapon is destroyed. That gives that Boomgun more survivability.

Flashgitz - The're Git Findas now give you ingore cover!...wait huh?... sorry they still suck.


Am sure I missing some and I apologize. This is really just my thoughts laid out on the direction my Orks are going in this new edition. I used to play Shooty Orks in 5th edition and did really well with them, so with a few tweaks my Orks will be just as competitive or even more so in 6th, am thinking. I think the days of the Battlewagon rush are gone. The Kan Wall just isn't cutting it anymore. The new era is now dubbed

The Green Hide.

Your not gunna charge across the field anymore your gunna move to mid-field, set up camp on the objectives, and lay down MOAR' DAKKA!

I agree entirely, I play both tau and orks and even the fire warriors overwatch doesn't add up to a squad of 30 shoota boyz.

I think battlewagons are going to see incredible amounts of play in 6th ed with Lootas.

I like to take 12 lootas and 3 Meks in a battlewagon. Snapfireing at BS1 isn't such a huge deal for orks. You can just roll around in your 4HP battlewagon, ramming other tanks with your deffrolla and repairing damage it takes while snap firing 12-36 S7 shots at things.

2 Loota Wagons and 1 Burna Wagon at less than 2000pts is great!

Also, Big Gunz. Taking a Kannon means your opponent is trying to kill a heavy support with a grot crew at T7! Sick!

This edition I'd say made orks a whole lot better. Despite the fact that close combat is dead, shooty orks are great!

Bikers at T5 are great too if you're really hell bent on getting into close combat.

IMO, 6th opens orks to an amazing mechanized army.

just my $0.02

General_Chaos wrote:Dakka-Jet - This things Epic. A flier with 9 twin-linked strength 6 shots at BS 3. That on a Waaagh! gets 18 shots! Yes please. Make sure you take the Fighter Ace upgrade so you can shoot your opponents Fliers at BS 3 also. Go get three now. I've never took a Weirdboy before but having chances for multiple Waaagh! could be very appealing.

One quick point. To the best of my knowledge, fighter ace does not help vs flyers. Strafing run adds +1BS to anything that isn't a Jetbike, Skimmer or Flyer, and Fighter Ace only adds +1 BS against Jetbikes and Skimmers.

They're still very good though.

The digital version tells us that Fighta Ace works against fliers.

Jidmah wrote:The digital version tells us that Fighta Ace works against fliers.

It would be nice if GW updated the FAQs to reflect that...

You mean a FAQ for an almost globally sold-out magazine, of which they refuse to release a PDF variant?

I can't begin to imagine how many bommers and stormtalons are not sold, simply because normal people have absolutely no way to access their rules.

Jidmah wrote:You mean a FAQ for an almost globally sold-out magazine, of which they refuse to release a PDF variant?

I can't begin to imagine how many bommers and stormtalons are not sold, simply because normal people have absolutely no way to access their rules.

Us normal folks find "ways" to get our hands on copies of those rules.

If you know what I'm getting at.

Jidmah wrote:You mean a FAQ for an almost globally sold-out magazine, of which they refuse to release a PDF variant?

I can't begin to imagine how many bommers and stormtalons are not sold, simply because normal people have absolutely no way to access their rules.

http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat440349a&prodId=prod1620095a

Assault is hardly dead. BS1 bolters do hardly anything, compared to the old fearless wounds.

If you charge with boyz then you will be finding it easier.
The issue that when you get there you'll have less orks due decreased cover saves.

It was all about cover with orks, now it will be 5+ cover but all too often no cover at all. This is the new element that needs stressing.

Now t5 4+ cover save bikers are now probably really important.
Also ADLs as this gives you cover.

xxmintyfreshxx wrote:

Jidmah wrote:You mean a FAQ for an almost globally sold-out magazine, of which they refuse to release a PDF variant?

I can't begin to imagine how many bommers and stormtalons are not sold, simply because normal people have absolutely no way to access their rules.

Us normal folks find "ways" to get our hands on copies of those rules.

If you know what I'm getting at.

Thats the thing that annoys me the most about how they go about it. They are basically forcing people to steal their rules on line. I wont lie, my copy of the flier rules are a scan, like most people I know, simply because we dont have the white dwarf with the rules in it. Completely stupid if you ask me

illuknisaa wrote:

Jidmah wrote:You mean a FAQ for an almost globally sold-out magazine, of which they refuse to release a PDF variant?

I can't begin to imagine how many bommers and stormtalons are not sold, simply because normal people have absolutely no way to access their rules.

http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat440349a&prodId=prod1620095a

You realize your link just takes you to the GW homepage right? There is no link whatsoever to the rules.

To add insult to injury, read at the bottom of the description for the dakkajet model ( http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?prodId=prod1600094a )

It specifically says get the june white dwarf if you want the rules.

MrMoustaffa wrote:

illuknisaa wrote:

Jidmah wrote:You mean a FAQ for an almost globally sold-out magazine, of which they refuse to release a PDF variant?

I can't begin to imagine how many bommers and stormtalons are not sold, simply because normal people have absolutely no way to access their rules.

http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat440349a&prodId=prod1620095a

You realize your link just takes you to the GW homepage right? There is no link whatsoever to the rules.

To add insult to injury, read at the bottom of the description for the dakkajet model ( http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?prodId=prod1600094a )

It specifically says get the june white dwarf if you want the rules.

Try clicking it again. Sometimes when gw site asks you your country it takes you to the homepage instead to the linked page.

Also if you can't find the rules via that link you can go to books-> white dwarf and you should see the 390 issue which you can still buy. I ordered my copy last tuesday because my local gw didn't have one.

xxmintyfreshxx wrote:

Jidmah wrote:You mean a FAQ for an almost globally sold-out magazine, of which they refuse to release a PDF variant?

I can't begin to imagine how many bommers and stormtalons are not sold, simply because normal people have absolutely no way to access their rules.

Us normal folks find "ways" to get our hands on copies of those rules.

If you know what I'm getting at.

Normal people do not know how to get illegal pdfs off the internet. Most normal people don't even know how to install windows. If in doubt, just try telling people that you have a degree in computer sciences - you will be fixing your aunt's best friend's computers in no time.

illuknisaa wrote:

Jidmah wrote:You mean a FAQ for an almost globally sold-out magazine, of which they refuse to release a PDF variant?

I can't begin to imagine how many bommers and stormtalons are not sold, simply because normal people have absolutely no way to access their rules.

http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat440349a&prodId=prod1620095a

I stand corrected, they finally did do reprints. Still no German ones though.

xxmintyfreshxx wrote: Despite the fact that close combat is dead, ...

Why do people keep saying this? (Honest question!) Overwatch makes a minimal difference, charge range can be overcome with a Waaagh (and not to mention, at least half the time you're charging into terrain, so you would be potentially boned in 5th as well) and only unique IC's and Force Weapons really scare Nobs, when they can't weasel out of challenges. The loss of Fearless Wounds alone is a massive boon. Transports are the hardest thing to get around, but that just takes learning. Your charge distance is more high risk, high reward.

Though I can't predict how the meta will shift, I certainly think declaring close combat as dead is premature.

KingCracker wrote:

xxmintyfreshxx wrote:

Jidmah wrote:You mean a FAQ for an almost globally sold-out magazine, of which they refuse to release a PDF variant?

I can't begin to imagine how many bommers and stormtalons are not sold, simply because normal people have absolutely no way to access their rules.

Us normal folks find "ways" to get our hands on copies of those rules.

If you know what I'm getting at.

Thats the thing that annoys me the most about how they go about it. They are basically forcing people to steal their rules on line. I wont lie, my copy of the flier rules are a scan, like most people I know, simply because we dont have the white dwarf with the rules in it. Completely stupid if you ask me

I completely agree. I have the PDF of it as well.

Kharrak wrote:

xxmintyfreshxx wrote: Despite the fact that close combat is dead, ...

Why do people keep saying this? (Honest question!) Overwatch makes a minimal difference, charge range can be overcome with a Waaagh (and not to mention, at least half the time you're charging into terrain, so you would be potentially boned in 5th as well) and only unique IC's and Force Weapons really scare Nobs, when they can't weasel out of challenges. The loss of Fearless Wounds alone is a massive boon. Transports are the hardest thing to get around, but that just takes learning. Your charge distance is more high risk, high reward.

Though I can't predict how the meta will shift, I certainly think declaring close combat as dead is premature.

I think it has a lot to do with that cover save. Trukks are still easy to blow up and they only can carry 12 boyz across the field. Because of the new cover saves unless they're in transports, they won't get very far so by the time you're in assault range, you don't have enough boyz left to do anything.

For orks anyway.

Just use trukks differently. So many Ork players seem to think EVERYTHING is just a move forward as fast as possible and hope and pray. Its really not like that. Many times, Ill choose to go 2nd, and when I use trukks, for a nob/MANz bomb, they are in reserves and held back a couple turns to come in with little harassment.


I also dont think CC is dead, my boyz seem to do a gak load of killin in CC still, specially now that a KFF Mek isnt a mandatory thing. Ive been running a Warboss of varying flavors so far, and they just wreck face in CC. Hell, last night I played against a CSM force, and did most my damage in CC. I even had a Nob KO a Chaos Lord and 3 CSM before he was finally done in by the PW Champion. Thats a good days Krumpin if you ask me. But shooting is DEFINITELY more powerful in 6th, which Im loving. Shooting has been my thing since the very first time I played 40k. I just love it.

From what I can gather from the OP's post, Orks solution to 6th edition changes is simply the old adage: MOAR DAKKA.

Im still sad my Snikrot cant assault from reserves though.

Yea snikrot got a pretty big FU in this edition. Though maybe he will get something in the next codex. You never know, his ambush might allow his unit to charge in or something.

With Hull Points, Trukks are actually notably sturdier. Not that much sturdier, but that single glance isn't going to bother them anymore - so long as they can discard their cargo. Exploding vehicles always being str4, regardless of Open Topped,

I'm surprised not many people are talking about the very notable Deffrolla boost against skimmers. They no longer have a dodge, and only get their Jink save for each glancing and penetrating hit.
Deffrollas are now a great asset against Eldar and Dark Eldar as well.

Ya, I think I was dancing a bit too much after my very first 6th edition ram killed two perfectly intact wave serpents in one go.

Jidmah wrote:Ya, I think I was dancing a bit too much after my very first 6th edition ram killed two perfectly intact wave serpents in one go.

dont get too excited. Waveserpants are easy to kill these days

KingCracker wrote:Yea snikrot got a pretty big FU in this edition. Though maybe he will get something in the next codex. You never know, his ambush might allow his unit to charge in or something.

But he could sneak in the back and take over a gun emplacement, if the unit was killed off of it.

Doubtful it would happen very often, but the look on someone's face as their own quad-gun is killing them.......

Green is Best! wrote:

KingCracker wrote:Yea snikrot got a pretty big FU in this edition. Though maybe he will get something in the next codex. You never know, his ambush might allow his unit to charge in or something.

But he could sneak in the back and take over a gun emplacement, if the unit was killed off of it.

Doubtful it would happen very often, but the look on someone's face as their own quad-gun is killing them.......

Personally, I wouldn't spend the points on him counting on that to happen. There are better things to pay for IMO.

Exergy wrote:

Jidmah wrote:Ya, I think I was dancing a bit too much after my very first 6th edition ram killed two perfectly intact wave serpents in one go.

dont get too excited. Waveserpants are easy to kill these days

I have an entire edition of "can't touch this!" written all over eldar tanks behind me(while Eldar are actually my most common opponent), I'm entitled to dance as much as I want.

I've played 7-8 games now with my orks in 6th.

close combat is not dead, you just need to play it smart. a longshot charge can get messed up if overwatch kills 2 models. pop the waaagh to ensure the rerolls when you need it.

if your opponent's chars can kill you in a challenge, then put your nobs 5-6" behind the front lines. when he charges, you can't accept the challenge as he is not yet eligible to fight. then, step up at i1 and if you roll a 6 to hit, you get to single the enemy char out with your claw. if your opponent's char will likely not be able to kill a nob in a challenge, keep the nob wherever you like.

with nob squads, you can deny challenges all day since you fight with 1 model less, but can precision strike with all your 6's to hit to take out the meat of a unit.

with fearless not being a liability anymore, you can afford to make charges against targets that you won't win the combat. or to accept charges from the same units.

orks can choose to worry about cover less than other armies. with the KFF, you can ensure at least some degree of cover, and prevent the effect of focus fire. granted, vehicle cover is a bit less effective, but at least you can get vehicle cover while advancing still.

lootas wreck fliers pretty damn well. with the poor BS, GW gave them a large volume of shots. this was only a benefit in 6th where snapfire is a minor debuff to orks. average of 30 shots from a full loota squad wrecks fliers pretty hard. you'll force the diving, and then if you score 3 glance/pen after the jink, you still destroy it. i've used a dakkajet a few times, but found that i can ignore fliers, or loota them to death without my own flier support.

my first impression was that orks had been nerfed terribly with fleet running not allowing charges. after playing through the game a bunch i've come to realize that we got the good end of a lot of the changes.

Kharrak wrote:

xxmintyfreshxx wrote: Despite the fact that close combat is dead, ...

Why do people keep saying this? (Honest question!) Overwatch makes a minimal difference, charge range can be overcome with a Waaagh (and not to mention, at least half the time you're charging into terrain, so you would be potentially boned in 5th as well) and only unique IC's and Force Weapons really scare Nobs, when they can't weasel out of challenges. The loss of Fearless Wounds alone is a massive boon. Transports are the hardest thing to get around, but that just takes learning. Your charge distance is more high risk, high reward.

Okay, here's a list.

General issues:

Overwatch has a minimal impact, unless you're charging certain units. Twin-linked weapons, S5+ weapons. Don't charge ork bikers, they will put out wounds.

Assault is no longer an answer to everything. A shooty army has a chance to hit flyers. A dedicated assault army really doesn't.

Multi-charges are nerfed. So you avoided all those bullets as you crossed the table, and now you get to trade your unit for one other unit. This hurts orks more, as we lose Furious Charge as well. This is the difference between killing three transports in a charge and killing one.

Short table edge deployment means in a third of games, you're going a lot further before you get to assault.

Cover is worse, so you lose more on the way.

Marines can always rally, with no risk now. Don't even think of shooting a marine unit you plan to charge, because they will fall back.

Speaking of falling back, premeasuring, snapfire and the change to Rapid Fire all work in favour of shooty armies. They can now fall back and shoot as we advance towards them, while also ensuring that they get as many turns of shooting as possible via measuring.

Mech issues:
Can only move 6" and charge. Non-assault vehicles have to spend a turn out of the vehicle, period. This really hurts eldar assault units.


Here's a quick analysis of the difference between 5th and 6th, as a 30-strong mob of boyz (w/ PK nob) run across the field towards two units of firewarriors (24, roughly equal points)..

Tau open fire at 30". (We'll assume they're deployed 12" from the table edge, and that they get to start shooting at the 30" line. We'll also assume orks get cover the whole way in, and don't have to roll for terrain)

5th ed:
Tau fire at 30". 24 shots = 12 hits = 8 wounds = 4 dead orks after cover. 26 boyz remain.
26 boyz advance 6" + 3.5" running.
Tau fire at 20.5". 4 more dead orks, 22 boyz remain.
22 boyz advance 9.5"
Tau fire at 11". Rapid Fire means they double effectiveness, kill 8 more boyz.
14 boyz move 6", assault 6", combi-charge the tau, swing first, kill 6 tau from each unit. Tau kill 2 orks in assault, lose by 10.


6th ed:
Tau fire at 30". 24 shots = 12 hits = 8 wounds = 5.3 dead orks after cover. 24.66 boyz remain.
26 boyz advance 6" + 3.5" running.
Tau scoot up to the 18" line. Premeasuring lets them do this perfectly.
Tau fire 18". This is rapid fire. 10.66 more orks die, from the front, putting the orks outside of 18" again. 14 boyz remain.
14 boyz advance 6". They're outside 12", so cannot declare a charge, and might as well run again. This leaves them at roughly 8.5".
Tau now back up 6", and then rapid fire again. 10.66 more orks die, also from the front rank. We're down to 3 boyz and a nob (assuming he wasn't anywhere near the front).
Boyz have a Ld test too. The Tau left themselves 14.5" away before killing the first 10 orks.

Boyz move 6", distance is 8.5" between armies, and that's being generous with who died from the front.

What we're left with is 3 boyz and a nob having to declare a charge against 12 firewarriors - whose overwatch fire would be expected to kill another 2-3 boyz. Forget charging both units, as that would kill everyone.

This is why assault is dead.

Remember, this example gave the orks cover through their entire advance, while simultaneously granting them moves that never rolled for terrain, and was very generous with the effect of casualty removal on distance.

Not only that, but I'm sure someone else is going to say, "well, there's other stuff in my army". Yeah, but there's other stuff in the Tau army too. 24 firewarriors and 30 boyz (incl. nob) cost the same. The difference between 5th and 6th means that the orks are hitting combat with 10 fewer bodies - enough to actually win the fight after sustaining casualties on the way in.

Kharrak wrote:With Hull Points, Trukks are actually notably sturdier. Not that much sturdier, but that single glance isn't going to bother them anymore - so long as they can discard their cargo. Exploding vehicles always being str4, regardless of Open Topped,

Trukks don't explode, it's a roll on the Ramshackle table instead, which has the passengers taking a S3 hit instead of the normal S4.

TLDR Armies who only took one element of the game are in trouble when that element is not as powerful in the same way that it used to be. However well rounded armies are actually probably a better bet instead of the all or nothing of last edition.

That would imply that armies without assault units are bones, which is definitely not the case.

xxmintyfreshxx wrote:
Also, Big Gunz. Taking a Kannon means your opponent is trying to kill a heavy support with a grot crew at T7! Sick!

Woa, when are they T7?