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Thinking about how rare most of the equipment used by Space Marines is really rare. Botlers, bolt ammo, etc. How do they always stayed supplies when they are in a combat zone, often surrounded, and cut off from supply lines?Also most planets IIRC don't have massive stores of bolter ammo for that kind of occasions. I mean I get that it is often done for dramatic convince. But, what do they eventually do, besides use melee weapons? I mean would they/could they use Las guns if need be?

Well, in several books I've read, they actually have run out of ammo/ clogged up their melee weapons with so much gore the chainsword belts wont move, and then they are more like clubs. (Helsreach)
Space marines could use lasguns if need be, however they usually pack their own ammunition based on what the situation calls for. I imagine they are re-supplied often times by air drops from thunderhawks

I also wondered this, and do SM chapters recover their drop pods after an assualt or do they just leave them there?

Makarov wrote:Thinking about how rare most of the equipment used by Space Marines is really rare. Botlers, bolt ammo, etc. How do they always stayed supplies when they are in a combat zone, often surrounded, and cut off from supply lines?Also most planets IIRC don't have massive stores of bolter ammo for that kind of occasions.

Most often when Space Marines are engaged in a situation where they even need to resupply (meaning: a full-blown campaign rather than a single shock assault mission), I'd expect the situation to have escalated into a full-blown war, which means that at least one Imperial Guard regiment should operate on the same planet.

Granted, boltguns are rare even within the Imperial Guard, but heavy bolters and bolt pistols - the latter using the very same .75 cal ammunition as boltguns - are not. All the Marines would have to do is asking if they could take a couple rounds. I'm sure most regiments would happily oblige. Meeting up with the place where this ammo is stored could be another issue, but where the Imperial Guard are known for establishing supply lines, the Space Marines are known for mobility, so I suppose they could just send a transport over. Or perhaps the Navy can help out with an airdrop.

Unless you subscribe to some outsourced authors' idea that the Space Marines somehow use different types of bolters than anyone else, even where GW sources say that it's the same.

Makarov wrote:I mean would they/could they use Las guns if need be?

Their hands are probably a little bigger than those of most normal humans, but in theory, I don't see why not.
They could also grab an Ogryn's ripper gun, that'd perhaps be somewhat more comfortable for them.

I'd expect them to be more likely to prefer their own close combat weapons, though. Just because it's a matter of honour (and pride), and not all Chapters are humble enough to touch a puny Guardsman's gear.

The Munitorum will ship ammunition of any kind that will be needed to the warzone.

Space Marines that enter a full blown war will have a supply line(or Drop Pods will be sent down with additional supplies when needed)


Occasionally, Marines do get caught and run out of the limited ammunition they can carry. As shown by various novels and other canon events in Codices.

Most marine engagements are over quick and they don't need more ammunition then they carry normally(probably 8-10 magazines, compatable with either their pistol or their bolter)

And also, let's keep in mind that 'rare' doesn't necessarily mean that it is an impossible to find commodity. More or less all the Marine chapters (as far as I know) have manufacturing wings or services to crank out gear and presumably bolts for them. Plus, as mentioned, IG has heavy bolters and bolt pistols in relative frequency, as well as ammo to support them.

There's plenty of bolter ammo out there when you look at it that way. But when you compare to all the other kinds of weapons and the huge size of the galaxy, yeah, you are not gonna see it just kicking around a supply room that often.

Or you will just find 1 crate of Bolter ammunition for every thousand crates of lasgun power packs and recharge stations.

My guess is that the Munitorium keeps some bolter ammo with every supply depot specifically in case some Marines come knocking needing some ammunition.

Grey Templar wrote:My guess is that the Munitorium keeps some bolter ammo with every supply depot specifically in case some Marines come knocking needing some ammunition.

Or a Commissar. Or a Heavy Weapons Team. Or the Sororitas. Or an Inquisitor. Or ...

curran12 makes a good point regarding "rare" being a relative term. For us civilians, Hellfire missiles are rare, yet the military has no problem stocking them. Similarly, bolt ammunition would be rare for Hive gangs.

This is what GW's Necromunda has to say about this kind of weapon:

Bolt Pistol
Bolt weapons are sophisticated weapons that fire self-propelled explosive ammunition in the form of small missiles called bolts. Bolt pistols and boltguns are manufactured in the factories of the hive city, but the fine engineering tolerances and quality materials required means few if any are made in the Underhive. For the same reason bolt weapons are hard to maintain, spares are rare, and ammunition is expensive. Furthermore, ammunition made in the Underhive is often unreliable. On the whole, this is a weapon best suited to the technically sophisticated armies of Space Marines for which it was designed.

Despite its drawbacks the bolt pistol is still a highly favoured weapon. It may not always work, but when it does the results are usually impressive. For one thing, it makes a lot of noise and creates a great deal of obvious damage. More deadly and far more obvious than an autopistol or laspistol, it makes the ideal side-arm for a gang leader keen to impress his rivals.

Boltgun
The boltgun or bolter is the standard armament of the Imperium's finest fighting forces, the Space Marines. It is a weapon made in limited quantities and to the highest standards using the most costly materials. Boltguns require constant attention and regular expert maintenance if they are to work properly.

Bolt weapons fire a self-propelled armour-penetrating mass-reactive explosive missile called a bolt. Even bolts are expensive to make and cannot be easily fabricated in the Underhive. Overall, boltguns are rare, expensive and prone to going wrong. However, they are very effective indeed.

Despite their drawbacks, boltguns are still highly favoured weapons. They make a great deal of noise and cause immense damage to any target they hit. They are prestige weapons carried by gang leaders and other fighters who are wealthy and don't mind advertising the fact. A fighter with a bolter means business.

Heavy Bolter
All bolt weapons are highly advanced and technically sophisticated, and the heavy version is the most effective and most complex weapon of its type. They are extremely bulky and are often known as the 'back breaker' by those who carry them. Like all bolters it is noisy and the shells explode when they hit their target, causing great devastation.

Only very experienced and relatively wealthy fighters can afford to own and use a heavy bolter. The constant and demanding maintenance routine also makes it an unwise c hoice for a novice. For those who know what they're doing, it is a prestigious weapon carried by the most dangerous of fighters.

When marines launch an assault, they will often do so from an orbiting ship. During a drop pod assault, additional pods will be dispatched full of extra ammo. Once a beachhead has been secured, landers can start to bring in larger supplies of ammo (as well as vehicles and food). It is also important to note that marines are first and foremost close combat fighters, in many situations (especially against hordes, such as nids or orks) marines will burn through their ammo extremely quickly.

Lots of the Space Marine Battle Books touch on this subject. Black Templars run out of ammo during Helsreach, Iron Hands purposely choose to put their bolters away in favor of fists and melee weapons to conserve ammo in Wrath of Iron, and Pedro Kantor constantly checks the ammo count on Dorn's Arrow in Rynn's World.

Also, novels about the Salamanders and Space Wolves examine the forge setting of their monasteries, and as mentioned above, orbiting battle barges and strike cruisers drop supplies via drop pods or thunderhawk runs.

The Space Marine video game actually features several drop pods scattered through the levels that contain parts or ammunition (you get your first jetpack from one of these).

Makarov wrote:Thinking about how rare most of the equipment used by Space Marines is really rare. Botlers, bolt ammo, etc. How do they always stayed supplies when they are in a combat zone, often surrounded, and cut off from supply lines?Also most planets IIRC don't have massive stores of bolter ammo for that kind of occasions. I mean I get that it is often done for dramatic convince. But, what do they eventually do, besides use melee weapons? I mean would they/could they use Las guns if need be?

Expand your thinking a bit.

How did the Marines get there? Why are they there? How are the getting home?

It would be very rare for them to be dropped off on a planet by a ship, then left there. Most often their transport (strike cruiser or battle barge) will stay on station to provide further support, such as supplies, reinforcements, intelligence, orbital strikes, etc.

in a book I'm reading now they have the IG and human troops from the legion fight first and the Ultra Marines wait toll they see other Astartes to conserve bolter and heavy weapons rounds.

curran12 wrote:And also, let's keep in mind that 'rare' doesn't necessarily mean that it is an impossible to find commodity. More or less all the Marine chapters (as far as I know) have manufacturing wings or services to crank out gear and presumably bolts for them. Plus, as mentioned, IG has heavy bolters and bolt pistols in relative frequency, as well as ammo to support them.

There's plenty of bolter ammo out there when you look at it that way. But when you compare to all the other kinds of weapons and the huge size of the galaxy, yeah, you are not gonna see it just kicking around a supply room that often.

Seconded. Bolters are rare, but so are marines. The ships that bring the marine force to a combat zone will be appropriately supplied, or have manufacturing equipment on board. The large number of references to marine forces running out of ammo are just because authors, like film makers, like to inject some sense of suspense and momentousness (is that a word?) into their work.

Drop pods are attached to really really long rope, so when they go weeeeeee and then hit the ground, the guys in the space ship can pull it back up.

They did try this with bungee chord a few times, but the marines using them got launched back into orbit.

As has been stated, air drops or resupply from IG supply depots would more than likely cover any ammo requirements that Marines wwuld have. as would using available ordnance (abandoned Heavy Weapons for example).

Food isnt such a problem.

Pilau Rice wrote:Drop pods are attached to really really long rope, so when they go weeeeeee and get then hit the ground, the guys in the space ship can pull it back up.

They did try this with bungee chord a few times, but the marines using them got launched back into orbit.

O, you....

Revenent Reiko wrote:

Pilau Rice wrote:Drop pods are attached to really really long rope, so when they go weeeeeee and then hit the ground, the guys in the space ship can pull it back up.

They did try this with bungee chord a few times, but the marines using them got launched back into orbit.

O, you....

Hows else do they get them back in to their Space Ships

Pilau Rice wrote:

Revenent Reiko wrote:

Pilau Rice wrote:Drop pods are attached to really really long rope, so when they go weeeeeee and then hit the ground, the guys in the space ship can pull it back up.

They did try this with bungee chord a few times, but the marines using them got launched back into orbit.

O, you....

Hows else do they get them back in to their Space Ships

This?


Hangs off the bottom of the Ship and they use these to control it:




Edit:Huge pictures, hence spoilers...

Revenent Reiko wrote:

This?

Spoiler:

Hangs off the bottom of the Ship and they use these to control it:

Spoiler:

Edit:Huge pictures, hence spoilers...

Ha, definitely by the Crane, they could use it to pick up enemy Tanks.

They could turn it into a game.


It's really bad I know

Edit: aww, I can't get the image to work :(

My Military experience is:
We always carried a combat load of ammo on our persons (IIRC it was like 240 rounds of M16/M4 ammo) and 9mil ammo as well. I was mounted up in a HUMVEE and we always had to carry an extra combat load with us in the vehicles as well.

How this relates to 40k? I am sure a space marine has a standard combat load of ammounition they carry on them. As well as in the rhinos, razorbacks, and LR/LRC. If anything, in a combat, they would load there troop carriers up with ammo that they would pick up from a bunker behind there lines, and transport it to the front line. I am sure they would never have a shortage of ammo, it would not make sense to send a warrior in to combat, lacking supplies. Unless its a special mission.

Pilau Rice wrote:Ha, definitely by the Crane, they could use it to pick up enemy Tanks.

They could turn it into a game.

Spoiler:

[img]
http://images.dakkadakka.com/gallery/2012/7/27/395041_md-Random.jpg[/img]

It's really bad I know

Edit: aww, I can't get the image to work :(

I can see it well enough, epic find!

Of course, that does exist (in Epic), but i think an Orbital Drop version is needed!

Revenent Reiko wrote:

Pilau Rice wrote:

Revenent Reiko wrote:

Pilau Rice wrote:Drop pods are attached to really really long rope, so when they go weeeeeee and then hit the ground, the guys in the space ship can pull it back up.

They did try this with bungee chord a few times, but the marines using them got launched back into orbit.

O, you....

Hows else do they get them back in to their Space Ships

This?

Spoiler:

Hangs off the bottom of the Ship and they use these to control it:

Spoiler:

Edit:Huge pictures, hence spoilers...

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/449991.page

I found this which answered my question on drop pod recovery. Makes sense.

Marines only run out of ammo if the plot demands it.

I assume they can make ammo on their ships with the use of people from the armoury. But when your chapter is renegade (Not Traitor, just Renegade, fight for the Imperium but are no longer considered part of it by Inquisitorial decree) do they still retain the non-astartes armourers and all that?

Without access to a world where you can get bulk supplies and components in order to re-arm, refuel, etc they'd fall down rather quick. Or is it just a case of they would use Rogue Traders who can gain the supplies for them?

I guess I'd also wonder where they put all their magazines, you read statements like they've used up 14 magazines and now only have 7 left. So if the standard bolt is the size of a human fist and each magazine holds 15-40 bolts (Straight-Drum mag) thats quite a bit of space and no apparent area where they hold it.

Yeah, an ostrocised chapter will still have its chapter facilities, assuming they weren't destroyed by the Imperium/Inquisition.

Many chapters have fleet based production facilities.

I agree with Melissia, they only run out of ammo so they can show how Marty Stu-ish they are.

From what i have read, SM chapters bring their own stored munitions with them on campaigns. Many have their own manufacturing capabilities, but i have heard of chapters running through enormous amounts of stockpiled ammunition in just one campaign.

In the Night Lords series, the Exalted's warband raids a Marines Errant fortress monastery with the help of the Red Corsairs and i believe make off with stockpiles of ammunition. So its completely different situation of procuring ammunition if your not a Space Marine under the Emperor.